VISA JOURNEY GUIDELINES OUT OF DATE? WHAT TO DO?

[FortLaudy 10]

I have a problem with Visa Journey.com's :

"Step-by-Step Guide on How to File an I-130 for a Spouse Inside the US"

Link: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...page=i130guide2

These guidelines are too generalised, the instructions are different if one is adjusting from K1 or from Work, Student & Tourist visas. Many immigrants who are adjusting (through marriage to a USC) from Work, Student & Tourist visas follow the guidelines above, and they are outdated and ask for needless documents. Many VJ'ers refer new members to this guideline... I'm sure a lot of people are following this guideline and sending in needless documents which might be an annoyance for the IO checking their AOS packet. PLEASE UPDATE !

So far, I have found 3 problems:

1. Listing a "marriage certificate" under the I-485 checklist for adjustment of status from Work, Student & Tourist visas, it's only required for adjusting from K1

2. "Be sure to make four copies of the completed "Biographic Information" page to submit with the package." Incorrect, the G-325A page is only ONE page, 1 for USC, 1 for petitioner for I-130, and 1 of petitioner for I-485. The old version of G-325A had more pages.

3. "Certified" copies.. nowhere on the official instructions does it mention send "certified" copies, only "legible photocopies or originals when requested".. some filers get stressed out about this and spend money on getting copies needlessly "certified". At the interview stage they ask for originals, no need for "certified" copies of documents.

I have included references to the official instructions below, please see below.

MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE

The guidelines on VJ state that

7. A certified copy of your marriage certificate. (If filing for your spouse) under I-485 checklist

Please read PAGE 5 on I-485 Instruction page, link:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-485instr.pdf

For Evidence of Eligibility there are 4 categories:

15. Evidence of Eligibility:

A. Based on Immigrant Petition: Attach a copy of the approval notice or submit complete relative petition. (NO MENTION OF MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE!!)

B. Based on admission as the K-1 fiance of a USC and subsequent marriage to that citizen: Attach a copy of the fiance petition approval notice, A COPY OF YOUR MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE, and your Form I-94

C. Based on Asylum status - no marriage certificate required

D. Based on continuous residence in the US since before January 1, 1972 - no marriage certificate required

The only category requiring the submission of a Marriage Certificate for I-485 is adjusting from K1 visa. This does not apply to "Adjusting from Work, Student & Tourist visas" !

If adjusting from Work, Student & Tourist visas the Evidence of Eligibility is:

15. A - Based on Immigration Petition - attach I-130 approval notice or complete I-130 to I-485, no seperate marriage certificate necessary for filing I-485, it's included in I-130!

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No need for 4 pages of the G-325A with each application, that was for the OLD VERSION of the G-325A, the new version has only 1 page.

See I-485 Instructions, page 4, 13. Form G-325A (submit completed G-325A for the applicant)

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-485instr.pdf

Now look at form G-325A:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/g-325a.pdf - ONLY 1 PAGE to fill in and send, NOT 4 !!!!!!!!!!

See Instructions for I-130: Page 2, 1.D

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-130instr.pdf 1 form for petitioner, 1 form for beneficiary

NOWHERE DOES IT MENTION SEND 4 COPIES OF G-325A.

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"CERTIFIED" COPIES

I-485 Instructions:

See "Copies" page 3

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-485instr.pdf

I-130 Instructions:

See "Copies" page 2

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-130instr.pdf

NO MENTION OF THE WORD "CERTIFIED" ANYWHERE, NO NEED TO HAVE ANY COPIES "CERTIFIED".

[FortLaudy 10]

I have found a few mistakes in Visa Journey.com's :

"Step-by-Step Guide on How to File an I-130 for a Spouse Inside the US"

Link: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...page=i130guide2

These guidelines are too generalised, the instructions are different if one is adjusting from K1 or from Work, Student & Tourist visas. Many immigrants who are adjusting (through marriage to a USC) from Work, Student & Tourist visas follow the guidelines above, and they are outdated and ask for needless documents. Many VJ'ers refer new members to this guideline... I'm sure a lot of people are following this guideline and sending in needless documents which might be an annoyance for the IO checking their AOS packet. PLEASE UPDATE !

So far, I have found 3 problems:

1. Listing a "marriage certificate" under the I-485 checklist for adjustment of status from Work, Student & Tourist visas, it's only required for adjusting from K1

2. "Be sure to make four copies of the completed "Biographic Information" page to submit with the package." Incorrect, the G-325A page is only ONE page, 1 for USC, 1 for beneficiary for I-130, and 1 of beneficiary for I-485. The old version of G-325A had more pages.

3. "Certified" copies.. nowhere on the official instructions does it mention send "certified" copies, only "legible photocopies or originals when requested".. some filers get stressed out about this and spend money on getting all their copies of documents needlessly "certified". At the interview stage they ask for originals, no need for "certifying" copies of documents. Make a legible photocopy of the signed and stamped marriage certificate.

I have included references to the official instructions below, please see below.

MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE

The guidelines on VJ state that

7. A certified copy of your marriage certificate. (If filing for your spouse) under I-485 checklist

Please read PAGE 5 on I-485 Instruction page, link:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-485instr.pdf

For Evidence of Eligibility there are 4 categories:

15. Evidence of Eligibility:

A. Based on Immigrant Petition: Attach a copy of the approval notice or submit complete relative petition. (NO MENTION OF MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE!!)

B. Based on admission as the K-1 fiance of a USC and subsequent marriage to that citizen: Attach a copy of the fiance petition approval notice, A COPY OF YOUR MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE, and your Form I-94

C. Based on Asylum status - no marriage certificate required

D. Based on continuous residence in the US since before January 1, 1972 - no marriage certificate required

The only category requiring the submission of a Marriage Certificate for I-485 is adjusting from K1 visa. This does not apply to "Adjusting from Work, Student & Tourist visas" !

If adjusting from Work, Student & Tourist visas the Evidence of Eligibility is:

15. A - Based on Immigration Petition - attach I-130 approval notice or complete I-130 to I-485, no seperate marriage certificate necessary for filing I-485, it's included in I-130!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No need for 4 pages of the G-325A with each application, that was for the OLD VERSION of the G-325A, the new version has only 1 page.

See I-485 Instructions, page 4, 13. Form G-325A (submit completed G-325A for the applicant)

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-485instr.pdf

Now look at form G-325A:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/g-325a.pdf - ONLY 1 PAGE to fill in and send, NOT 4 !!!!!!!!!!

See Instructions for I-130: Page 2, 1.D

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-130instr.pdf 1 form for petitioner, 1 form for beneficiary

NOWHERE DOES IT MENTION SEND 4 COPIES OF G-325A.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"CERTIFIED" COPIES

I-485 Instructions:

See "Copies" page 3

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-485instr.pdf

I-130 Instructions:

See "Copies" page 2

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-130instr.pdf

NO MENTION OF THE WORD "CERTIFIED" ANYWHERE, NO NEED TO HAVE ANY COPIES "CERTIFIED", this is optional.

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If anybody else have found any more mistakes on the "guidelines" on here, please post, maybe we can get VJ to make a seperate checklist for each visa category or we can have a thread on here pinned with a correct checklist for each category of visas so the same questions don't keep coming up...

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

Thanks for the feedback! I will take a look and make updates as needed . I would love comments from others on the above if they have any,

[*julez* 124]

My comment regarding copies of offical documents (such as marriage certificates) is that, yes, the form does not specify CERTFIED cpoies as being necessary. HOWEVER, since many VJers have reported RFEs that specifically request CERTIFIED copies of official documents, anecdotal evidence suggests the prudent thing to do is send a CERTIFIED copy.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

1. Read I-485 15. Evidence of eligibility part 18. for the question of the marriage certificate. If you are adjusting from student/work/etc visa's, because of a marriage, you have to prove you are actually married to the USC.

The I-130 and I-485 are different forms, and there is a chance that one will be approved, and one will not be, so you would need the same evidence for each form. (similar to having a separate G-325 for each form)

2. The old G-325 came with five pages, one being the instructions, the other being 4 copies. There is some question of the new one, calls I made to USCIS says to either send in one (1) page, or four (4) pages, depending on who you talk to at USCIS, so I would go ahead and just make 4 copies and send them in, as per the older form - why risk an RFI? They will accept the "old" form with 4 copies.

3. Certified documents = original documents (copies of such). I can only see good things in getting copies certified. (you even say yourself they will ask for originals at the interview (in my experience, "may ask" is more likely), so what will you do if you have only copies?

________________________________________________

Most, if not all, of the guidelines were generated from "real" world experiences by users of this site. Yes, you probably could get by with the bare minimum, however, many people have walked this path, so it is best to heed their experiences and follow suit.

(There are posts here where people sent in "copies" of marriage certificates, only to get an RFI for the "certified copy")

Speaking of my own case, I followed the forms, and the VJ guidelines, I even had each piece of paper I submitted get notarized. Because I took the extra effort to include as much info as possible, I didn't have one RFI or any delays.

[rebeccajo 14]

Regarding the Guidelines (overall):

It's always good to keep these as up-to-date as possible. BUT - immigration paperwork isn't and shouldn't be a spoon-feeding process. Readers really shouldn't get the impression they can merely glide down through a checklist and sail their way through approval. More than once I've read posts from folks who claim they 'made mistakes' with their cases because the Guide didn't say 'this or that'.

I would like to see an improved big, bold disclaimer at the top of each guide that IN ADDITION to using the Guide, that the reader take time to read through the appropriate forums for updated policies, procedures, or just general 'quirks' that might apply to their case.

It cannot be overemphasized enough that EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT. Immigration isn't a cookie-cutter, drive-thru process. We need to do more than help people with their cases - we need to encourage accountability.

Edited December 15, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Joe_&_Nadiya 1]

Though I see your point, let's not forget that here at VJ, these are informational only guidelines, not rules set by any immigration agency (USCIS, NVC, etc, etc). It is the responsibility of the petitioner/intended immigrant to read all Forms as well as their instructions from the proper governmental bodies and follow only the instructions listed in those forms, not VJ's guidelines.

but like I said before, I see your point.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Joe & Nadya

[dirtyweebesom 8]

[...] At the interview stage they ask for originals, no need for "certifying" copies of documents. Make a legible photocopy of the signed and stamped marriage certificate.

As regards the actual interview, does anyone know if you have to order extra copies of your marriage licence in case they want to keep one? I was just wondering whether I can turn up with only one (my own) copy of the licence, and they will make copies.

If they do want originals of documents, what else are they looking for? Copies of birth certificates etc? Anything else?

[dirtyweebesom 8]

Most, if not all, of the guidelines were generated from "real" world experiences by users of this site. Yes, you probably could get by with the bare minimum, however, many people have walked this path, so it is best to heed their experiences and follow suit.

(There are posts here where people sent in "copies" of marriage certificates, only to get an RFI for the "certified copy")

Speaking of my own case, I followed the forms, and the VJ guidelines, I even had each piece of paper I submitted get notarized. Because I took the extra effort to include as much info as possible, I didn't have one RFI or any delays.

It can't hurt to go the extra mile, but I don't think we should be advising people to do so on here. AOS is already hugely expensive and time-consuming, so why make it even more difficult for people? I'm sure there have been people who have received RFE's for the real, certified marriage licence, but I bet there are probably far, far more people who haven't.

As far as I can tell, people receive RFE's because they forgot to include something important with their application or because USCIS is incompetent and lost their material. I really don't think all that many people have received RFE's when they followed the instructions carefully even if they only did send in the "bare minimum".

[FortLaudy 10]

1. Read I-485 15. Evidence of eligibility part 18. for the question of the marriage certificate. If you are adjusting from student/work/etc visa's, because of a marriage, you have to prove you are actually married to the USC.

The I-130 and I-485 are different forms, and there is a chance that one will be approved, and one will not be, so you would need the same evidence for each form. (similar to having a separate G-325 for each form)

"Part" or Cateogory 18, page 5 : "Other basis of Eligibility: Attach copies of documents proving that you are eligible for the classification"

This would apply to people who think they are eligible to file the I-485 but do not fall into the previous 17 categories listed. If your case falls into one of the 17 cateogories then of course you would follow the instructions within that category and ignore 18.

If you're adjusting from Student, Work and Tourist visas and married to a USC who is petitioning for you with I-130, the only category that applies is:

15. A - Based on Immigration Petition - attach I-130 approval notice or complete I-130 to I-485 and file concurrently.

You would not need to attach a seperate marriage certificate to I-485 as it is included in the I-130 and not required as per the I-485 instructions for the category 15.A that you're eligible to file under... I don't think you could fall into two categories of eligibility.

[FortLaudy 10]

[...] At the interview stage they ask for originals, no need for "certifying" copies of documents. Make a legible photocopy of the signed and stamped marriage certificate.

As regards the actual interview, does anyone know if you have to order extra copies of your marriage licence in case they want to keep one? I was just wondering whether I can turn up with only one (my own) copy of the licence, and they will make copies.

If they do want originals of documents, what else are they looking for? Copies of birth certificates etc? Anything else?

Hey girl! What I'm going to do is take all the originals (financial statements, bills, marriage certificate etc.) and just make 1 ordinary photocopy of each thing just incase they want a copy - make a flip file and have the original on top with a copy behind it, just to be on the safe side - but I've read about a few interviews and most applicants state that the IO took their original and made their own copy and would not take the applicants copy and also returned the originals after making the copy.

I think the RFE's people are getting for documents was because no copy or a bad copy was sent - could not be completely read by the IO, or USCIS lost it, or in case of the marriage certificate the applicant sent in the "licence" instead of the certificate, or it's in a foreign language and was not properly translated, or it's from a different country - in that case a certified copy would definetely be a good idea.

But as far as I see in the official instructions, a legible photocopy is fine, and if they want the original they'll ask for it and I'll send it in.

[FortLaudy 10]

Though I see your point, let's not forget that here at VJ, these are informational only guidelines, not rules set by any immigration agency (USCIS, NVC, etc, etc). It is the responsibility of the petitioner/intended immigrant to read all Forms as well as their instructions from the proper governmental bodies and follow only the instructions listed in those forms, not VJ's guidelines.

but like I said before, I see your point.

You're right, they're informal, but possibly thousands of people come on here to get advice before they file, I've seen countless times where a new member have asked a question and they've immediately been referred to the VJ checklist... can you imagine how many people are sending in 4 copies of the G325A for each application or running around town trying to get all their documents "certified" & "notarised" and applying for another copy of their marriage certificate at the courthouse because the checklist on here says to send it along with I-485 when it does not apply to them?? This is just adding extra stress to an already annoying and time consuming process.

If the guidelines/checklists on VJ is not 100% correct then VJ'ers need to stop referring people to it and refer them to the official instructions instead which are pretty clear and straight forward.

[dirtyweebesom 8]

I think the RFE's people are getting for documents was because no copy or a bad copy was sent - could not be completely read by the IO, or USCIS lost it, or in case of the marriage certificate the applicant sent in the "licence" instead of the certificate

I personally have never quite been able to understand the difference between the marriage certficate and the marriage licence.

After my husband and I went to get the marriage licence, it was transformed magically into the marriage "certificate" when the Justice of the Peace (or whatever you call these people) married us a few days later, and signed her name on it, and maybe put on a special seal. All we ever had was one piece of paper.

Are other states different?,because it seems like everybody else had a separate licence, and then got the certificate once they got married

[FortLaudy 10]

I think the RFE's people are getting for documents was because no copy or a bad copy was sent - could not be completely read by the IO, or USCIS lost it, or in case of the marriage certificate the applicant sent in the "licence" instead of the certificate

I personally have never quite been able to understand the difference between the marriage certficate and the marriage licence.

After my husband and I went to get the marriage licence, it was transformed magically into the marriage "certificate" when the Justice of the Peace (or whatever you call these people) married us a few days later, and signed her name on it, and maybe put on a special seal. All we ever had was one piece of paper.

Are other states different?,because it seems like everybody else had a separate licence, and then got the certificate once they got married

Yes, we also got married in the courthouse, when we initially went in they swore us in etc. and gave us the Marriage Licence, which "allowed" us to get married, with that licence you can have the "ceremoney" in vegas, your church/temple or backyard as this "allows" you to legally get married - it is not the marriage certificate!!!

Here, they gave us 3 days to change our minds I guess, lol... you can only do the marriage ceremony after 3 days of the licence being issued - I guess to avoid the drunken Vegas style weddings, lol !!! The marriage licence and certificate looks EXACTLY the same, only difference on certificate is top right hand corner is filled in and it's stamped and signed on the back. So, I would think that if you've sent in a licence, or a marriage certificate that does not show the stamp/signature you could get an RFE?

[marie09 5]

Are other states different?,because it seems like everybody else had a separate licence, and then got the certificate once they got married

I think the states vary... We got married in Nevada. The license had our addresses, birth places, parent's names etc on it. I had the hotel make a copy of it. Lucky i think as the chapel took our license - the minister needed it to register our marriage. They gave us a certificate - as in Nevada the license only shows you applied to get married - not that you actually have. Since this is Las Vegas - i'm sure there are people who get the license then never marry!

After our wedding we had to wait for the minister to register our wedding with the court - as apparently the certificate the chapel gave us didn't show our marriage was recognised by the state - though it had a seal on. The minister had 10 days by Nevada law to register our marriage - we explained the immigration thing too him and he agreed to do it the next day. We then had to order a certified marriage cert of Nevada county court. We used copies of that cert for all the paperwork - as it's got the seal and stamp on it. So far the certs been good for everything. I'm going to order a certified copy of the license though to take to he interview - just in case. Since all we have for the license is a photocopy and the hotel front desk agent clipped the top of it when she made the copy! The cert doesn't list as much info as the license but its been accepted everywhere.