Fraudulent Marriage vs. Legitimate Divorce

[timelena 0]

PurrSuede,

First, I want to say that I am very sorry for your situation.

I hope that none is going to deport the immigrating ex-spouse in case of divorce. The reasoning is as follows: there are so many illegal immigrants here, why should the US Government deport HER?

On the other hand, I would think that the Government would have more reasons to "hate" someone and to deport him/her if that person uses Federal assistance (or makes something elso from the NO list). If she receives Federal assistance and then she or the Government starts a law suit agains you as a sponsor, it's still uncertain if you will pay and when it happens. I would think it's risky for her.

My opinion is that she may want to get as much as possible as a settlement, but enforcing that Affidavit of Support does not look good. If she would have to adjust without you, I assume it would be easier when she works (making 100+ percent of the poverty line) and does not break any law. I don't see any reason for the US not to make such a "positive" person a permanent resident. If I were her, I would try to be strictly "positive". At the time of the interview I would say that "well, marriages do not last sometimes, but we did love each other, and here are the evidences that we were going to live together for a long time; but since it did not work out for us, I am doing my best to become a good citizen of the US."

She may have another opinion, though

[PurrSuede 0]

First, I want to say that I am very sorry for your situation.

At the time of the interview I would say that "well, marriages do not last sometimes, but we did love each other, and here are the evidences that we were going to live together for a long time; but since it did not work out for us, I am doing my best to become a good citizen of the US."

Timelena:

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm having a tough time of it today so I appreciate it. To top it off, I'm paying her another $4,000 today, mostly because I want to get it over with. But I'm stressed over even having to deal with her today. I'm stressed about having to PAY her, just because she wanted out, but such are the divorce laws and I have to abide by them...

So as I said, I appreciate your thoughts... I just want to put this all behind me, it's like a horrendously bad dream... <sighs>

-- Dan

[happyinlove08 0]

This is a very sad story. Dealing with USCIS is one thing but to have all you all have worked for in shambles is very hard to understand. I am sorry you had to deal with that. Hopefully this time you will be aware of what happened and take it as a lesson. As the saying goes "You learn from your mistakes". Cheer up at least you did not have children yet. I hope you start a good life now.

Much luck to you

[PurrSuede 0]

This is a very sad story. Dealing with USCIS is one thing but to have all you all have worked for in shambles is very hard to understand. I am sorry you had to deal with that. Hopefully this time you will be aware of what happened and take it as a lesson. As the saying goes "You learn from your mistakes". Cheer up at least you did not have children yet. I hope you start a good life now.

Much luck to you

Amen to not having children yet. My lawyer said "if you are even thinking of reconciling with her, remember she can still file for divorce even if she's pregnant, only you'll be into her for over a $1000 a month in child support, so keep it in your pants".

I paid $200 an hour for this advice.

But having children and a family is WHY I got married to begin with.

The mistake I made was in BELIEVING her when she said this is what she wanted too? I don't think so

The thing was, I think her intent was come to America and get married and IF things go well (for her) then have the children and family. I don't believe she was fully committed to the marriage.

That's an awful fine line between "bona fide" marriage and having your "escape plan" in your back pocket all the time.

I put out some bank statements and utility statements in front of my lawyer, the "bona fides" documentation she might need for her individual filing.

I told my lawyer that when the divorce was final (as it is now) and she complied with every term of the settlement (as she has now) THEN and only then, she can have this documentation.

I can't put myself in her mind, but I did do some digging and found out a lot of things that could have maybe changed my mind before hand. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful, however, I can't know for CERTAIN what was going on in her mind, only that she bailed out pretty damn easily, imho...

And anyway, when you're in love, it's pretty hard to see the "red flags"... that's all part and parcel of being in love, believing in the best of your spouse/partner.

-- Dan

[Sweetgirl 0]

First, I want to say that I am very sorry for your situation.

At the time of the interview I would say that "well, marriages do not last sometimes, but we did love each other, and here are the evidences that we were going to live together for a long time; but since it did not work out for us, I am doing my best to become a good citizen of the US."

Timelena:

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm having a tough time of it today so I appreciate it. To top it off, I'm paying her another $4,000 today, mostly because I want to get it over with. But I'm stressed over even having to deal with her today. I'm stressed about having to PAY her, just because she wanted out, but such are the divorce laws and I have to abide by them...

So as I said, I appreciate your thoughts... I just want to put this all behind me, it's like a horrendously bad dream... <sighs>

-- Dan

HI! Do you guys have a Prenuptional Agreement?..

If you dont the divorce might be a little bit tougher as as far as i understood you are residing in New-Mexico and this is a Community Property State so everything gonna be divided between both of you as 50/50.

I dont wanna scare you i am sorry ., but you do need to talk to your lawyer about this issue as well.

The girl is not gonna be deported as i agree with Timelena sometimes marriages are not working out ., but seems that the girl have entered the marriage in good faith .

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

[Sweetgirl 0]

This is a very sad story. Dealing with USCIS is one thing but to have all you all have worked for in shambles is very hard to understand. I am sorry you had to deal with that. Hopefully this time you will be aware of what happened and take it as a lesson. As the saying goes "You learn from your mistakes". Cheer up at least you did not have children yet. I hope you start a good life now.

Much luck to you

Amen to not having children yet. My lawyer said "if you are even thinking of reconciling with her, remember she can still file for divorce even if she's pregnant, only you'll be into her for over a $1000 a month in child support, so keep it in your pants".

I paid $200 an hour for this advice.

But having children and a family is WHY I got married to begin with.

The mistake I made was in BELIEVING her when she said this is what she wanted too? I don't think so

The thing was, I think her intent was come to America and get married and IF things go well (for her) then have the children and family. I don't believe she was fully committed to the marriage.

That's an awful fine line between "bona fide" marriage and having your "escape plan" in your back pocket all the time.

I put out some bank statements and utility statements in front of my lawyer, the "bona fides" documentation she might need for her individual filing.

I told my lawyer that when the divorce was final (as it is now) and she complied with every term of the settlement (as she has now) THEN and only then, she can have this documentation.

I can't put myself in her mind, but I did do some digging and found out a lot of things that could have maybe changed my mind before hand. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful, however, I can't know for CERTAIN what was going on in her mind, only that she bailed out pretty damn easily, imho...

And anyway, when you're in love, it's pretty hard to see the "red flags"... that's all part and parcel of being in love, believing in the best of your spouse/partner.

-- Dan

HI Dan,

I havent read your posts very carefully but after i have read it i am very soory for what happened to you.

You must be a very good guy ., but sometimes people dont notice a red flags when they are inlove.

the truly loves shows by the persons acts not by the persons words.

I hope you will find your true love someday and my Best wishes.

But still if you have the Prenuptional agreement that would be a very important factor in your divorce process.

Talk to your lawyer about it.

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

[PurrSuede 0]

HI Dan,

I havent read your posts very carefully but after i have read it i am very soory for what happened to you.

You must be a very good guy ., but sometimes people dont notice a red flags when they are inlove.

the truly loves shows by the persons acts not by the persons words.

I hope you will find your true love someday and my Best wishes.

But still if you have the Prenuptional agreement that would be a very important factor in your divorce process.

Talk to your lawyer about it.

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

Thanks for the good thoughts, Sweetgirl... I'm getting through it.

The divorce is final. I actually got money back from my retainer.

My ex-wife realized she had no money to fight me with lawyers and after only two years of marriage frankly there were no assets to really get, other than some of the equity in the house.

She wanted a car, but both my cars were purchased prior to the marriage, in a community property state, there was NO DOUBT they were mine. "Sole and Separate" it's called.

She was quite surprised that the divorce laws in my state meant that I owed her nothing other than a 50/50 split of assets acquired during the marriage. And that was after the community debt was subtracted from the community assets.

The funny thing was when we bought the house, she had NO credit rating, barely had a social security card, having just arrived from Russia. So she had to sign a "sole and separate" agreement saying the house was mine in entirety, and not community property, because they couldn't issue a mortgage in her name, she couldn't be a party to actually buying the house, legally.

But me, being the thoughtful person I am, turned around and signed it back to "us" as Joint Tenants, man and wife together, just in case anything happened to me so she could inherit the house without going through probate. So I basically signed her back into community property. How could I have known...?? That little signature cost me $12,000 in equity...

That was the only reason I owed her ~anything~, was because I deeded the "sole and separate" house back to ourselves as community property. Silly me, huh?

I encourage ALL of you to check out the divorce laws in your state PRIOR to getting married. No one goes into marriage thinking of getting divorced, but you just don't know what can happen.

-- Dan

[Rob and Melinda 0]

Really sorry to hear this! It is something that all of us think of in the back of our minds..."Can I really trust this person..." it takes many months before we begin to know for sure.

Didn you ever suspect that she really didnt love you? Were there any warning signs that her love was not sincere?

Rob

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

"Can I really trust this person..." it takes many months before we begin to know for sure.

I disagree with this. During the process of falling in love, it really isn't typical to question whether you can trust this person or not unless you have come from a previous relationship full of deception. Why in the world would anyone marry someone that they have to question the sincerity of that persons dedication? If one has to do this, then they are looking in the wrong place. Let's all chime in and say "IMBRA".

The OP was in love, and felt it was mutual. He is not accusing his ex-wife of being fraudulant. Sh*t happens in marriages, and he seems to be very aware of this.

I applaud the OP for his strengths through this, and wish him the best.

Bethanie

[desert_fox 32]

HI! Do you guys have a Prenuptional Agreement?..

If you dont the divorce might be a little bit tougher as as far as i understood you are residing in New-Mexico and this is a Community Property State so everything gonna be divided between both of you as 50/50.

I dont wanna scare you i am sorry ., but you do need to talk to your lawyer about this issue as well.

The girl is not gonna be deported as i agree with Timelena sometimes marriages are not working out ., but seems that the girl have entered the marriage in good faith .

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

The divorce has already been granted. I can assure you that the courts of NM based their determination of the final property settlement IAW with the community property statues of NM, and by mutual agreement of the parties.

Community property are only those assets that have been accumulated since the marriage, and that she is not entitled to half of everything. She is only entitled to her share of the community property and that determination has been made. The court retains jurisdiction on this matter amd will not re-open the case and cannot be modified....its a done deal.

Dan...

Im sure that you know that its best to follow the advice of your lawyer, and he is more knowledgable than some of the replies that you have received from us amatuers, and I would certainly trust his judgement and experience on these kinds of matters.

Good luck to you in the future.

[PurrSuede 0]

During the process of falling in love, it really isn't typical to question whether you can trust this person or not unless you have come from a previous relationship full of deception. Why in the world would anyone marry someone that they have to question the sincerity of that persons dedication? If one has to do this, then they are looking in the wrong place. Let's all chime in and say "IMBRA".

The OP was in love, and felt it was mutual. He is not accusing his ex-wife of being fraudulant. Sh*t happens in marriages, and he seems to be very aware of this.

I applaud the OP for his strengths through this, and wish him the best.

Bethanie

I did feel it was mutual once upon a time. It is always much easier to see "possible" red flags after the fact, however 20/20 hindsight makes geniuses of all of us.

I feel there is nothing to gain from accusing her of being fraudulent. That issue is between her, her God and conscience and the USCIS.

However I do feel (in 20/20 hindsight) that perhaps she said "well let's get married and see what happens" and had a Plan-B in her back pocket to begin with. I can't claim that's fraud. Maybe she decided marriage wasn't for her. I have my share of faults, but she never really seemed to participate in the marriage much, but there are a LOT of other issues I haven't gone into here. Does that make her a fraud?

Again, that's between her, and she's the one who needs to convince the USCIS that she wasn't.

I'm more interested in my next relationship than re-living all the traumas of my last one.

Thanks Bethanie.

-- Dan

[PurrSuede 0]

HI! Do you guys have a Prenuptional Agreement?..

If you dont the divorce might be a little bit tougher as as far as i understood you are residing in New-Mexico and this is a Community Property State so everything gonna be divided between both of you as 50/50.

I dont wanna scare you i am sorry ., but you do need to talk to your lawyer about this issue as well.

The girl is not gonna be deported as i agree with Timelena sometimes marriages are not working out ., but seems that the girl have entered the marriage in good faith .

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

The divorce has already been granted. I can assure you that the courts of NM based their determination of the final property settlement IAW with the community property statues of NM, and by mutual agreement of the parties.

Community property are only those assets that have been accumulated since the marriage, and that she is not entitled to half of everything. She is only entitled to her share of the community property and that determination has been made. The court retains jurisdiction on this matter amd will not re-open the case and cannot be modified....its a done deal.

That is correct. ONLY those assets accumulated SINCE the marriage. MINUS the debt that had also been accumulated since the marriage. I paid for the wedding and honeymoon, I paid for the down payment on the house, I paid for the appliances in the house, I paid for a lot of other things. I put them on low interest credit cards and kept my debt ratio high for a reason. I did not tap out my savings from BEFORE the marriage to pay for these things. Wonder why?? <smile>

If you take the equity in the house, bought shortly after we were married, and subtract the accumulated debt from the marriage, then divide by two (50/50 split) that's what she is getting. And my lawyer structured this as "one time, lump sum non-modifiable support" which means it gets taken off my income and SHE pays the taxes on it. <smile again>

I also bought a 2nd car BEFORE she got here. I knew she'd be driving, but the 2nd car was ~mine~ before the marriage. "sole and separate" and she thought "I have rights to this car!" at the divorce. Not according to the laws of the state of NM she didn't... <another smile>

Actually she had signed a "sole and separate" agreement on the house when we bought it, since she had no credit, just having gotten here, and I had signed it back to joint tenancy in case anything happened to me.

Without that signature there would have been NOTHING to split, but my lawyer said it was likely they would have wanted some measure of support anyway, since she was making minimum wage, basically.

I have no doubt the house will appreciate by at least as much as I'm giving her over the next year or two... which of course, she won't get to share in... <some more smiles>

Dan...

Im sure that you know that its best to follow the advice of your lawyer, and he is more knowledgable than some of the replies that you have received from us amatuers, and I would certainly trust his judgement and experience on these kinds of matters.

Good luck to you in the future.

She (my lawyer) was very helpful. Except at one point I think she did feel sorry for "poor Russian girl".

My ex- is very good at pulling this routine however, so I'm not surprised, really.

Well it's over and done with. But I suggest to ANYONE to look into the divorce laws in your state prior to doing this...

Thanks for your good wishes and thoughts, desertfox

-- Dan

[returningVJ 0]

HI! Do you guys have a Prenuptional Agreement?..

If you dont the divorce might be a little bit tougher as as far as i understood you are residing in New-Mexico and this is a Community Property State so everything gonna be divided between both of you as 50/50.

I dont wanna scare you i am sorry ., but you do need to talk to your lawyer about this issue as well.

The girl is not gonna be deported as i agree with Timelena sometimes marriages are not working out ., but seems that the girl have entered the marriage in good faith .

Best wishes.

Sincerely.

The divorce has already been granted. I can assure you that the courts of NM based their determination of the final property settlement IAW with the community property statues of NM, and by mutual agreement of the parties.

Community property are only those assets that have been accumulated since the marriage, and that she is not entitled to half of everything. She is only entitled to her share of the community property and that determination has been made. The court retains jurisdiction on this matter amd will not re-open the case and cannot be modified....its a done deal.

That is correct. ONLY those assets accumulated SINCE the marriage. MINUS the debt that had also been accumulated since the marriage. I paid for the wedding and honeymoon, I paid for the down payment on the house, I paid for the appliances in the house, I paid for a lot of other things. I put them on low interest credit cards and kept my debt ratio high for a reason. I did not tap out my savings from BEFORE the marriage to pay for these things. Wonder why?? <smile>

If you take the equity in the house, bought shortly after we were married, and subtract the accumulated debt from the marriage, then divide by two (50/50 split) that's what she is getting. And my lawyer structured this as "one time, lump sum non-modifiable support" which means it gets taken off my income and SHE pays the taxes on it. <smile again>

I also bought a 2nd car BEFORE she got here. I knew she'd be driving, but the 2nd car was ~mine~ before the marriage. "sole and separate" and she thought "I have rights to this car!" at the divorce. Not according to the laws of the state of NM she didn't... <another smile>

Actually she had signed a "sole and separate" agreement on the house when we bought it, since she had no credit, just having gotten here, and I had signed it back to joint tenancy in case anything happened to me.

Without that signature there would have been NOTHING to split, but my lawyer said it was likely they would have wanted some measure of support anyway, since she was making minimum wage, basically.

I have no doubt the house will appreciate by at least as much as I'm giving her over the next year or two... which of course, she won't get to share in... <some more smiles>

Dan...

Im sure that you know that its best to follow the advice of your lawyer, and he is more knowledgable than some of the replies that you have received from us amatuers, and I would certainly trust his judgement and experience on these kinds of matters.

Good luck to you in the future.

She (my lawyer) was very helpful. Except at one point I think she did feel sorry for "poor Russian girl".

My ex- is very good at pulling this routine however, so I'm not surprised, really.

Well it's over and done with. But I suggest to ANYONE to look into the divorce laws in your state prior to doing this...

Thanks for your good wishes and thoughts, desertfox

-- Dan

Dan,

I see lot of people pity you here, im sure you are a nice guy. but you seriously need to get out of this. shake it off and move on. may be you're not realising these posts are taking you on rounds and kepping you stuck on this. looking at your last post it seems like you have planned for a divorce more in advance than ur spouse, well im just giving you my honest openion, how it looks like when ur looking at it from out side. by any means im not saying you did.

and also you very correctly mentioned in one of the previous posts that there are three sides, her side, his side and the truth very true. have you looked at it closely or impartially and tried to figure out whats in the middle?

also i saw you were accusing your ex-spouse for having a plan B. well it was not plan A right? it was clearly plan B, which i think she should have and unfortunaetly there are many of us who never had a plan B and never thought what would we do if end up getting dumped after quting jobs, selling houses and leaving relatives and going through all the odeal of establishing a new life.

last but not least my friend i think you need to get some help from a therapist. im not saying it in an offensive way. please dont misunderstand me here. quite frankly im going through therapy, because im all f**ked up after getting dumped and not given any reason for it and it looked like planned and executed. (may be the same way that you feel) i was loosing sleep, geting up 3 in the morning all angry the list goes on...... im not saying ur f**ked up like me maybe your dealing with it well.

when i posted my story here, some guy posted "Now you know how american women are" i see some same kinda stuff getting posted in your threds in much more indirect way. but if u ride this wave ur not doing your self any good. now youre divorced let it be a thing in the past and move on. hang out with off-line friends and give up talking about all this, if (which i believe so) ur divorce is final.

all righty what ever it is all the best to you and youre ex-spouse in the rest of the journey of life.

[Sweetgirl 0]

"Can I really trust this person..." it takes many months before we begin to know for sure.

I disagree with this. During the process of falling in love, it really isn't typical to question whether you can trust this person or not unless you have come from a previous relationship full of deception. Why in the world would anyone marry someone that they have to question the sincerity of that persons dedication? If one has to do this, then they are looking in the wrong place. Let's all chime in and say "IMBRA".

The OP was in love, and felt it was mutual. He is not accusing his ex-wife of being fraudulant. Sh*t happens in marriages, and he seems to be very aware of this.

I applaud the OP for his strengths through this, and wish him the best.

Bethanie

HI!

God thats a beautiful picture under the American flag ,how did you guys manage to put it under the flag and it looks so romantic.

Sincerely.

[Sweetgirl 0]

"Can I really trust this person..." it takes many months before we begin to know for sure.

I disagree with this. During the process of falling in love, it really isn't typical to question whether you can trust this person or not unless you have come from a previous relationship full of deception. Why in the world would anyone marry someone that they have to question the sincerity of that persons dedication? If one has to do this, then they are looking in the wrong place. Let's all chime in and say "IMBRA".

The OP was in love, and felt it was mutual. He is not accusing his ex-wife of being fraudulant. Sh*t happens in marriages, and he seems to be very aware of this.

I applaud the OP for his strengths through this, and wish him the best.

Bethanie

HI!

God thats a beautiful picture under the American flag ,how did you guys manage to put it under the flag and it looks so romantic.

Sincerely.

That is for Tim and Bethany question.