Fraudulent Marriage vs. Legitimate Divorce

[PurrSuede 0]

I was reading the thread about Laila's situation and I couldn't help but read the post from Mermaid that said:

Fraudulent marriages are not only restricted to such scenarios. There are also many cases of "marriage for immigration benefit only" when an alien feigns love and interest and the US citizen is none the wiser until the alien, having achieved his or her initial objective, then terminates the relationship.

My divorce from my Russian immigrant wife who arrived here in May 2004 goes through the NM courts tomorrow. Her CONDITIONAL AOS status was granted in June of 2005, thus she still has a year before PERMANENT AOS status.

I consulted with an immigration attorney prior to the divorce, who told me that with her leaving the marriage PRIOR to the Permanent AOS the USCIS would be "all over her with a fine-toothed comb" and "even if they wouldn't deport her back to Russia, they would check her out VERY carefully, possibly for years" before granting Permanent AOS.

Mind you, there was no "domestic violence" in our situation although she did try to fabricate some events that only succeeded in one "Domestic Disturbance" call from the Police... so there is not the same issues that had gone on in Laila's situation, thankfully.

But frankly it really sucks to have gone through all this and to wind up in Divorce court. Yes, I'm the one who filed for the divorce because she doesn't have the money to do this. That cost me quite a bit as well, of course.

To top it off, under the Community Property/Support laws of our state, I have to give her $12,000 in "lump-sum" alimony. She only works a minimum-wage job as a manicurist, and she has to buy a car out of that money (both cars were mine under community property laws as these were my property prior to the marriage).

So she gets $12,000 from me for two years of being married to me, and has to try and survive in America on this.

Before the divorce, I had even asked her if she wanted to stay, we could "work" on the marriage for the next year, even go to counseling for couples, or whatever, until her PERMANENT AOS, but she decided not to do this.

The situation... well frankly it SUCKS. I didn't marry her to see her walk off after only two years of marriage. Yes there were problems which I'll detail if others are interested in this, but I thought at least I'd share what the immigration attorney had said. This attorney was a Staff Attorney for the INS for 20 years before he decided to start his own private practice, by the way, so I think he knows what he's talking about.

My (soon-to-be-)ex-wife thinks she can just hire this attorney and all will be well. He told me that she will likely spend YEARS tied up with the INS trying to prove the "bona fide" nature of the marriage, although it would be likely that they wouldn't deport her, they'd make her Permanent AOS damn hard to get.

I asked her if she wanted to return to Russia with the $12,000, that kind of money in Russia would last her and her family (still back in Russia) a lot longer than it would last her in the US, but she has no interest in returning...

So you have to wonder if maybe her initial INTENTIONS weren't fraudulent, her actions certainly make things LOOK rather suspicious, but frankly, this is HER problem to deal with between her and the USCIS.

I'll share more details on this situation if people are interested at all.

I was here as a very active member in 2004, pretty much left after we got married. I'm sad to report this very unhappy ending to what I thought was a "dream come true"... it turned out to be a nightmare...

-- Dan

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I was reading the thread about Laila's situation and I couldn't help but read the post from Mermaid that said:

Fraudulent marriages are not only restricted to such scenarios. There are also many cases of "marriage for immigration benefit only" when an alien feigns love and interest and the US citizen is none the wiser until the alien, having achieved his or her initial objective, then terminates the relationship.

My divorce from my Russian immigrant wife who arrived here in May 2004 goes through the NM courts tomorrow. Her CONDITIONAL AOS status was granted in June of 2005, thus she still has a year before PERMANENT AOS status.

I consulted with an immigration attorney prior to the divorce, who told me that with her leaving the marriage PRIOR to the Permanent AOS the USCIS would be "all over her with a fine-toothed comb" and "even if they wouldn't deport her back to Russia, they would check her out VERY carefully, possibly for years" before granting Permanent AOS.

Mind you, there was no "domestic violence" in our situation although she did try to fabricate some events that only succeeded in one "Domestic Disturbance" call from the Police... so there is not the same issues that had gone on in Laila's situation, thankfully.

But frankly it really sucks to have gone through all this and to wind up in Divorce court. Yes, I'm the one who filed for the divorce because she doesn't have the money to do this. That cost me quite a bit as well, of course.

To top it off, under the Community Property/Support laws of our state, I have to give her $12,000 in "lump-sum" alimony. She only works a minimum-wage job as a manicurist, and she has to buy a car out of that money (both cars were mine under community property laws as these were my property prior to the marriage).

So she gets $12,000 from me for two years of being married to me, and has to try and survive in America on this.

Before the divorce, I had even asked her if she wanted to stay, we could "work" on the marriage for the next year, even go to counseling for couples, or whatever, until her PERMANENT AOS, but she decided not to do this.

The situation... well frankly it SUCKS. I didn't marry her to see her walk off after only two years of marriage. Yes there were problems which I'll detail if others are interested in this, but I thought at least I'd share what the immigration attorney had said. This attorney was a Staff Attorney for the INS for 20 years before he decided to start his own private practice, by the way, so I think he knows what he's talking about.

My (soon-to-be-)ex-wife thinks she can just hire this attorney and all will be well. He told me that she will likely spend YEARS tied up with the INS trying to prove the "bona fide" nature of the marriage, although it would be likely that they wouldn't deport her, they'd make her Permanent AOS damn hard to get.

I asked her if she wanted to return to Russia with the $12,000, that kind of money in Russia would last her and her family (still back in Russia) a lot longer than it would last her in the US, but she has no interest in returning...

So you have to wonder if maybe her initial INTENTIONS weren't fraudulent, her actions certainly make things LOOK rather suspicious, but frankly, this is HER problem to deal with between her and the USCIS.

I'll share more details on this situation if people are interested at all.

I was here as a very active member in 2004, pretty much left after we got married. I'm sad to report this very unhappy ending to what I thought was a "dream come true"... it turned out to be a nightmare...

-- Dan

I'd not like to question the credibility of the attorney that also worked for the USCIS, but unless she is lacking bona fides (as in joint tax returns, joint bank acct info etc) I find it difficult to believe that he would think she wouldn't prevail. There must be more that you divulged with him that would cause him to think that way. Many I-751 waivers, with substantial corroborating bona fides are often approved within months and without an interview.

[JenT 0]

So sorry that things have turned out this way for you... thanks for sharing your story. There have been other posts about potential warning signs... and with hindsight being 20//20, are there any red flags you might want to share with others who might be doubtful about their relationships???

Jen

[PurrSuede 0]

Mermaid said:

I'd not like to question the credibility of the attorney that also worked for the USCIS, but unless she is lacking bona fides (as in joint tax returns, joint bank acct info etc) I find it difficult to believe that he would think she wouldn't prevail. There must be more that you divulged with him that would cause him to think that way. Many I-751 waivers, with substantial corroborating bona fides are often approved within months and without an interview.

He didn't say she wouldn't "prevail"... he said it was likely they would NOT deport her, but he did say they would likely tie her up for some time, because they would ~suspect~ fraudulent intent.

I am giving her some "evidence", copies of a joint utility bill, insurance bill, and community association billing, along with statements from a joint bank account, but his information to me was they would still "red flag" her most likely...

There really was very little that I divulged to him that would make any kind of difference. That was his opinion on the case, I paid for this opinion, and as I said, he had worked as a Staff Attorney for 20 years prior.

Of course he could be flat out wrong but...

Anyway, I am NOT going to give her joint tax returns, she's on her own with the paperwork I'm giving her. The stack of papers is waiting at my lawyer's office and she will be presented with these when the ink is dry from her signing the divorce decree... not before...

-- Dan

So sorry that things have turned out this way for you... thanks for sharing your story. There have been other posts about potential warning signs... and with hindsight being 20//20, are there any red flags you might want to share with others who might be doubtful about their relationships???

Jen

Jen, thanks for the thoughts... they are appreciated... I can't say there were "warning signs", I can see in 20/20 hindsight ways in which things went bad (not going to go into all the details of what happened to us just yet...)

I think for one thing, once she had a driver's license and access to a car (mine) she really became much more independent, very quickly... had less NEED for me, but that's pretty normal, really...

Now that's not something that you view as a warning sign (wanting to learn how to drive a car), but it certainly turned into part of her desire for independence... just got more and more independent from me in many ways..

-- Dan

[babybunny 2]

here is a link that may intrest you..

http://www.uscis.gov/lpbin/lpext.dll/inser...pter-32-21-46-3

there are some RED FLAGs here..

[Boiler 45,486]

There is nothing in your posts to suggest she will have any issues obtaining her 10 year GC.

She can apply as soon as the divorce is final.

Is there something significant you have left out?

I would be more worried about her enforcing the Affadavit of Support.

[JenT 0]

There is nothing in your posts to suggest she will have any issues obtaining her 10 year GC.

She can apply as soon as the divorce is final.

Is there something significant you have left out?

I would be more worried about her enforcing the Affadavit of Support.

mmmm... good point....

Def something to address during the proceedings....

Jen

[dmartmar 1]

I am giving her some "evidence", copies of a joint utility bill, insurance bill, and community association billing, along with statements from a joint bank account, but his information to me was they would still "red flag" her most likely...

Why would you suspect and accuse her of fraud, yet "give" her the evidence she needs to prove the bona fides of your marriage?

[PurrSuede 0]

There is nothing in your posts to suggest she will have any issues obtaining her 10 year GC.

She can apply as soon as the divorce is final.

Is there something significant you have left out?

I would be more worried about her enforcing the Affadavit of Support.

As I said, I'm going on the basis of what an Immigration Attorney told me, and as I said, he worked as a Staff Attorney for the INS for 20 years prior.

He said the very fact she left the marriage prior to Permanent AOS (removal of conditions) means the INS will take a HUGE interest in her. I didn't say they wouldn't approve her, or deport her, and frankly that's between her and the CIS, and no longer my problem.

However, regarding the "Affidavit of Support". Again, this information comes straight from the Attorney.

~She~ cannot 'enforce' the Affidavit of Support. That can only be used by a gov't agency to try and collect from the USC any public assistance (welfare, food stamps, public housing) paid out on the immigrant's behalf. They would have to take you to court and they could use the "Affidavit of Support" to try and collect re-imbursement from you for the monies they paid out on the immigrant's behalf. But they would have to file a lawsuit against you in order to even try to do this.

As the immigant, she has no ability to take this document and enforce anything against you. He said he saw a divorce proceeding where the opposing lawyer tried to claim "you signed an agreement you would support her for 10 years", and told me point blank, that is NOT the meaning, nor purpose of that document, nor can it be used in such a way.

He also told me ~point blank~ that in his 20 years with the INS he had NEVER, I repeat NEVER, once seen this document used against a USC. Nor in his private practice. Never, not ONCE. And it could only be used as "evidence" in a lawsuit filed against the USC by the gov't agency that was providing "public assistance" for the immigrant.

So based on the information he gave me, I don't think that's an issue to be concerned about.

[PurrSuede 0]

I am giving her some "evidence", copies of a joint utility bill, insurance bill, and community association billing, along with statements from a joint bank account, but his information to me was they would still "red flag" her most likely...

Why would you suspect and accuse her of fraud, yet "give" her the evidence she needs to prove the bona fides of your marriage?

Because... for one thing, I did not accuse her of fraud, only that her actions certainly could lead one to be a bit suspicious of such...

Primarily because it's not my issue or concern to worry about. She is the one who has to file AOS and she is the one who will need to answer to the CIS if they see so fitting for her to do so.

She also married me and lived with me for two years. That much is fact. I can not prove her intentions, or what was or was not in her mind. One could argue it looks suspicious, but one could also argue the marriage was incompatible.

I spoke about this with the "family law" attorney who processed my divorce. Attempting to get an annulment of the marriage on the grounds of "fraudulent intent" would have been likely impossible, time consuming and extremely expensive. Obtaining a divorce on the grounds of "incompatibility" was a lot cheaper, quicker and can NOT be contested in New Mexico, since this is a no-fault state.

It's also a community property state. There is $75,000 equity in the house, and she knows it. I agreed to give her $12,000 (which still sucks) and "documentation" from the time we were married and living together.

What now transpires between her and the CIS is between her and the CIS. I don't care if they kick her out of the country or not. I can stay bitter and angry and stick my nose into the matter, but then all I am doing is holding onto the negative feelings, instead of just simply letting go of it and moving on with my life.

She asked me for a statement of my belief that the marriage was "bona fide". I refused to do this. I did give her copies of bank statements, utility bills, etc, but she could just as easily obtain these if she wanted to.

The immigration attorney said the CIS could ask me to appear before them, when she files her AOS, but this is not a subpoena and I am not obligated to do so. They would take that into account as well. Again, that's up to the CIS examiner, not up to me.

As it is, since she does not understand immigration law, she will likely have to hire an immigration attorney to process her AOS for her, at a cost of $100-$125 an hour for his time. HER problem, not mine.

This lawyer could likely pull this evidence ~anyway~ if it was needed from the bank, since she WAS a joint holder of the account. That is a permanent part of the bank's records. So why should I withhold it from her? As I said, her issue is now with the CIS. I'm done having issues with her, myself. That's why we're divorced.

My interest is in moving on with my life. I have nothing to gain by making her life difficult, she made my life difficult for the last year and a half, and frankly, it's time to let go and spend my time trying to heal, not seething with anger over what may or may not have been her intent.

This thread is labelled appropriately. I can't ~prove~ her intent in marrying me was fraudulent, nor do I care to even try. Perhaps it was a legitimate divorce for reasons of incompatibility. Perhaps she had this in mind all along. Either way, it's not something I plan on holding onto for the rest of my life, because I have no desire to prove what was in her mind one way or the other.

I don't need to prove it's HER fault... I did my best under the circumstances, and I can hold my head up with a clear conscience and know that I tried to do the right thing. What she does with her conscience and the CIS is her concern, not mine.

-- Dan

[john_and_marlene 162]

However, regarding the "Affidavit of Support". Again, this information comes straight from the Attorney.

~She~ cannot 'enforce' the Affidavit of Support. That can only be used by a gov't agency to try and collect from the USC any public assistance (welfare, food stamps, public housing) paid out on the immigrant's behalf. They would have to take you to court and they could use the "Affidavit of Support" to try and collect re-imbursement from you for the monies they paid out on the immigrant's behalf. But they would have to file a lawsuit against you in order to even try to do this.

As the immigant, she has no ability to take this document and enforce anything against you. He said he saw a divorce proceeding where the opposing lawyer tried to claim "you signed an agreement you would support her for 10 years", and told me point blank, that is NOT the meaning, nor purpose of that document, nor can it be used in such a way.

He also told me ~point blank~ that in his 20 years with the INS he had NEVER, I repeat NEVER, once seen this document used against a USC. Nor in his private practice. Never, not ONCE. And it could only be used as "evidence" in a lawsuit filed against the USC by the gov't agency that was providing "public assistance" for the immigrant.

You should start doubting the things he tells you:

http://www.povertylaw.org/poverty-law-libr...ase/54000/54046

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0608-mehta.shtm

[PurrSuede 0]

You should start doubting the things he tells you:

http://www.povertylaw.org/poverty-law-libr...ase/54000/54046

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0608-mehta.shtm

First of all: unlike one case, she is employable, and has been working at a job above the "poverty level" for almost the duration of the marriage. Second of all, on the Burns vs. Burns case in Oklahoma it says "no payment from plaintiff... was required because the support alimony aware in the divorce action was in excess of 125 percent of the poverty line.

Secondly, to the Wheeler link on ILW.Com it says: In lieu of seeking maintenance (spousal support or alimony) in the state court action, the alien spouse sued the sponsor in federal court asking for money owed under the terms of the affidavit of support.

Again she is getting a lump sum support/alimony award.

Also from the Wheeler link on ILW.com it says: At the same time, it is important to provide a realistic assessment of the probability of actions to enforce the affidavit of support. The author is not aware of any successful actions to obtain reimbursement for means-tested benefit programs obtained by the alien, largely due to the following: (1) sponsored aliens are barred from receiving these benefits for a five-year period in most jurisdictions; (2) after this five-year period, the income of the sponsor is deemed to the alien in determining financial eligibility; and (3) most states have not implemented a system for seeking such reimbursement in cases where the alien does access benefits. Over the course of the last nine years, only a handful of actions have been brought against sponsors by the sponsored alien, and all have been by disgruntled spouses.

Also from the Mehta link on ILW.com it says: It is noted that the state court in Florida that had ordered the dissolution of the marriage did not award alimony or support to either party.

[PurrSuede 0]

You should start doubting the things he tells you:

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

from the Wheeler link on ILW.com it says: At the same time, it is important to provide a realistic assessment of the probability of actions to enforce the affidavit of support. The author is not aware of any successful actions to obtain reimbursement for means-tested benefit programs obtained by the alien... Over the course of the last nine years, only a handful of actions have been brought against sponsors by the sponsored alien, and all have been by disgruntled spouses.

I did forward those links to the Immigration attorney. It's important to understand that the Wheeler link states he is unaware of ~any~ successful actions to obtain reimbursement for means-tested benefit programs. Which is what my lawyer told me. He has never seen it.

And as to the "handful of actions brought against sponsors ... by disgruntled spouses", well I'm addressing this issue as well with my family-law (Divorce) attorney. We have not given her the paperwork ~yet~ regarding the bona fide nature of the marriage. Also I want my family law attorney to see that article as well, including the various defenses.

In the meantime, if she did wind up as "disgruntled EX-spouse" bringing an action against me, she would have to be BELOW the poverty level for any enforcement to occur. I sincerely doubt she could live without an income below the poverty level while this lawsuit was pending. The very fact it would take time to bring this lawsuit would almost require her to go out and get a job, work, support herself which would then take her ABOVE the poverty level. Sort of a catch-22 for her, isn't it?

Nevertheless, I appreciate being given this info. I would assume that my immigration attorney as he said, has never SEEN such usage of this. Law is a fluid and ever-changing world, of course, and if nothing else, I wanted him to be aware of those cases. As he said, he has never SEEN such, and even your article indicated only a handful of actions have been brought and all by disgruntled spouses.

Thanks again for sharing it though.

-- Dan

[Boiler 45,486]

There is nothing in your posts to suggest she will have any issues obtaining her 10 year GC.

She can apply as soon as the divorce is final.

Is there something significant you have left out?

I would be more worried about her enforcing the Affadavit of Support.

As I said, I'm going on the basis of what an Immigration Attorney told me, and as I said, he worked as a Staff Attorney for the INS for 20 years prior.

He said the very fact she left the marriage prior to Permanent AOS (removal of conditions) means the INS will take a HUGE interest in her. I didn't say they wouldn't approve her, or deport her, and frankly that's between her and the CIS, and no longer my problem.

However, regarding the "Affidavit of Support". Again, this information comes straight from the Attorney.

~She~ cannot 'enforce' the Affidavit of Support. That can only be used by a gov't agency to try and collect from the USC any public assistance (welfare, food stamps, public housing) paid out on the immigrant's behalf. They would have to take you to court and they could use the "Affidavit of Support" to try and collect re-imbursement from you for the monies they paid out on the immigrant's behalf. But they would have to file a lawsuit against you in order to even try to do this.

As the immigant, she has no ability to take this document and enforce anything against you. He said he saw a divorce proceeding where the opposing lawyer tried to claim "you signed an agreement you would support her for 10 years", and told me point blank, that is NOT the meaning, nor purpose of that document, nor can it be used in such a way.

He also told me ~point blank~ that in his 20 years with the INS he had NEVER, I repeat NEVER, once seen this document used against a USC. Nor in his private practice. Never, not ONCE. And it could only be used as "evidence" in a lawsuit filed against the USC by the gov't agency that was providing "public assistance" for the immigrant.

So based on the information he gave me, I don't think that's an issue to be concerned about.

Ohh dear, this guy is either stupid or a bullshitter.

Stump v. Stump, 2005 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 26002 (October 25, 2005)

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

If I know about it and many others who are all amateurs, why does not he?

With regards to her adjusting, I have seen many many posts from those in similar positions, the issues they have had seem no more that you would expect from those not divorced.

I think somebody else mentioned that they had seen at least one approved without even an interview.

But this is not your problem, its hers.

Edited July 25, 2006 by Boiler

[PurrSuede 0]

Ohh dear, this guy is either stupid or a bullshitter.

Stump v. Stump, 2005 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 26002 (October 25, 2005)

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

If I know about it and many others who are all amateurs, why does not he?

With regards to her adjusting, I have seen many many posts from those in similar positions, the issues they have had seem no more that you would expect from those not divorced.

I think somebody else mentioned that they had seen at least one approved without even an interview.

But this is not your problem, its hers.

I just discussed the Wheeler article in depth. (See previous postings) Perhaps he simply had never SEEN it, as I indicated. Nevertheless I sent him the link for his review. And perhaps he doesn't know about it, because it never has occurred in his practice, as he indicated, and as that article mentioned a HANDFUL of cases in the last nine years. In both cases mentioned the ex-spouses did NOT receive alimony/support in the divorce, which is NOT the case in mine.

Regarding this case, this is no different from a Doctor who has never seen a particulary rare disease. It doesn't make him stupid, nor a bullshit artist. Only that he's never seen it.

And you're right, regarding AOS, it's her problem, not mine. And I really don't give a rat's ### what her problems are anymore, I'm not interested in her problems, I have enough problems of my own, and now she is no longer one of them anymore...

-- Dan