Trench Warfare

[alienlovechild 75]

Very random topic I know. I'm trying to determine who invented modern trench warfare. It appears that modern trenches were first used at the tail end of the American Civil War but there are also references to their use by British soldiers in New Zealand about the same time.

I thought trenches came about because of the rifled barrel and smokeless powder make it easy to pick off massed soldiers at a distance. In the American Civil War, commanders learned that firing behind fences and other forms of cover was very effective. It wasn't at the tail end of the war either as Vicksburg still has trenches to can see today. Same thing for WWI trenches outside Ypres.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I guess there is a question what really is "modern trench warfare". I would say that it is trench warfare without open maneuvers. IE. If you are entrenched and the enemy quickly out flanks you that is still not modern trench warfare like that of World War One. The likes of which can only be broken through via a frontal assault or a truce. For instance the slaughter at Cold Harbor was "modern trench warfare" because neither army could maneuver around the other and the only way that the deadlock was broken was a truce. Even World War One was never a complete breakthrough, yes the allies started gaining ground quickly because of their Mark IVs but because it was slow, Germany was still able to fall back to newly defended trenches. One thing that is little know was that the Germans also had slow tanks.

I would say that the Korean War had an element of trench warfare as well once Chinese forces reinforced the North Korean Army....and that too ended in a truce.

Also in my opinion I would say that "modern trench warfare" formed when artillery and small arms rate of fire was such that open maneuvering was impossible. Basically without armored speed the best you had to outflank was the horse which would be gunned down quickly.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Sousuke

[slim 1,533]

George Washington used what we call guerrilla tactics today,

He'd also be called a terrorist or insurgent today and would be targeted by unmanned aerial vehicles with laser-guided bombs.

didn't make sense to him to stand in a neat straight line and catch those little lead balls. Hiding behind a tree made a lot more sense. Snipers for a very long time were looked down upon by our military, but finally adopted as SOP.

Allegedly, Maj. Ferguson passed up a shot on a Colonial officer at the battle of Brandywine. He did so because "the man's back was turned to him" and it wasn't gentelmanly to take that shot. Turns out, that officer was none other than our favorite domestic terrorist - Gen. George Washington.

I thought trenches came about because of the rifled barrel and smokeless powder

That may be why "modern" trench warfare came into existence, but trenches were used since way, way, way back.

what really is "modern trench warfare". I would say that it is trench warfare without open maneuvers. IE. If you are entrenched and the enemy quickly out flanks you that is still not modern trench warfare like that of World War One.

We will probably never see "modern trench warfare" again unless the grid goes out, EMP, or the like. With so many technological advances, it's too easy to target static positions. They're still highly useful and will always be used, but they won't be used as they were in WWI where the "lines" were literally lines in the ground. If TEOTWAWKI comes and we have nothing bigger than some indirect fire weapons (and those will run out fairly quickly) we'll probably see "modern trench warfare" again on one level or another.

I would say that the Korean War had an element of trench warfare as well once Chinese forces reinforced the North Korean Army....and that too ended in a truce.

Some of the trenches are still there. A lot of hills... a lot of trenches!

Also in my opinion I would say that "modern trench warfare" formed when artillery and small arms rate of fire was such that open maneuvering was impossible. Basically without armored speed the best you had to outflank was the horse which would be gunned down quickly.

That's probably pretty accurate. You can only go around for so far. Once there are so many machine guns on a line (and all other spaces covered by arty) the only other option is to charge right through. So, that' puts the death of "modern trench warfare" right after the end of WWI when you have tanks and planes and artillery all getting technologically advanced enough to cover ground that men don't occupy.

Back to OP though - where does it start? It would have to be in the very late 1800s when machine guns were finally able to be employed by small units and when artillery became accurate (and mobile) enough to prevent the enemy from "going around." I believe someone (justashooter?) said right around the Spanish-American War? I'd have to agree that's about the right time period.

Interestingly enough, that's really a pretty brief time period in terms of a "tactic" of that magnitude. Technological advances created it... and also conqured it!