forced abortion in 9th month

[Cortr 3]

It would be if it were true and not teabagger propaganda.

The forced abortions are a reality, not propaganda. The government will also (or at least, would at one time) force sterilization surgery on women who are 'over quota.'

But.. this has little, if anything, to do with sponsoring a Chinese citizen to come to America on a visa, and is in general very distasteful to talk about. Horrible things happen all over the world, everyday. Can we keep it on topic?

[garfield529 47]

It would be if it were true and not teabagger propaganda.

The forced abortions are a reality, not propaganda. The government will also (or at least, would at one time) force sterilization surgery on women who are 'over quota.'

But.. this has little, if anything, to do with sponsoring a Chinese citizen to come to America on a visa, and is in general very distasteful to talk about. Horrible things happen all over the world, everyday. Can we keep it on topic?

You know I was almost going to agree 100% with you Cortr..but then I thought more about this. I know that this was posted so that Justashooter and Endoftheroad can have their usually #######-for-tat, albeit entertaining, but I see an underlying need for these kinds of posts. My fiancee is university educated with a degree in traditional medicine and she interned at a hospital and told me that she say the clinic where girls used abortion as birth control. Many Chinese do not have a problem with this, because culturally many don't consider the child alive "until" he/she is born. This is not the case for Justashooter's MIL and not the case for my fiancee. I think what we need to take from this is that we are marrying into the life of a person who will have many underlying differences on certain views. Our cultural norms won't be so norm for them and vice versa. So I think it is important to at least examine the positives and the negatives about China in a constructive way. My fiancee is 30, and I know that she is influenced for life by her culture and will always have China as her frame of reference for her future experiences. Just my thoughts.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

continued bickering in this thread will get it shut down.

[Cortr 3]

You know I was almost going to agree 100% with you Cortr..but then I thought more about this. I know that this was posted so that Justashooter and Endoftheroad can have their usually #######-for-tat, albeit entertaining, but I see an underlying need for these kinds of posts. My fiancee is university educated with a degree in traditional medicine and she interned at a hospital and told me that she say the clinic where girls used abortion as birth control. Many Chinese do not have a problem with this, because culturally many don't consider the child alive "until" he/she is born. This is not the case for Justashooter's MIL and not the case for my fiancee. I think what we need to take from this is that we are marrying into the life of a person who will have many underlying differences on certain views. Our cultural norms won't be so norm for them and vice versa. So I think it is important to at least examine the positives and the negatives about China in a constructive way. My fiancee is 30, and I know that she is influenced for life by her culture and will always have China as her frame of reference for her future experiences. Just my thoughts.

Interesting perspective garfield. That's true about their life experiences being shaped by the reality they experience in their home countries. Definitely food for thought!

[justashooter 430]

You know I was almost going to agree 100% with you Cortr..but then I thought more about this. I know that this was posted so that Justashooter and Endoftheroad can have their usually #######-for-tat, albeit entertaining, but I see an underlying need for these kinds of posts. My fiancee is university educated with a degree in traditional medicine and she interned at a hospital and told me that she say the clinic where girls used abortion as birth control. Many Chinese do not have a problem with this, because culturally many don't consider the child alive "until" he/she is born. This is not the case for Justashooter's MIL and not the case for my fiancee. I think what we need to take from this is that we are marrying into the life of a person who will have many underlying differences on certain views. Our cultural norms won't be so norm for them and vice versa. So I think it is important to at least examine the positives and the negatives about China in a constructive way. My fiancee is 30, and I know that she is influenced for life by her culture and will always have China as her frame of reference for her future experiences. Just my thoughts.

Interesting perspective garfield. That's true about their life experiences being shaped by the reality they experience in their home countries. Definitely food for thought!

bingo. somebody understands a little about chinese. they are not the same as Americans. they are a much more practical lot.

most chinese couples choose to have a child because they need to satisfy their parent's expectations, but cannot afford to do it with more than 1. sure, grandparents care for the child until it reaches school age, but from that point on, it's pay as you go. from kindergarten forward school is paid for in cash, and is not cheap. a college degree is a requirement for anythign more than factory or service occupations, and the best degrees from the best schools are secured more with money than with apptitude.

as for endoftheearth, i mess with him not just for fun, but also for a reason. he is throwing about a bunch of unbelievable propoganda that nobody in their right mind would accept if they've ever been to the real china. trouble is, a lot of people have been to china, but most of them have never been to the real china. they have been to shanghai, or hong kong, or xiamen, or suzhou, or hainan, or the better parts of beijing. they have been protected from the harsher side of life that exists even in these, the best places in china.

most people traveling to china have never seen the inside of the average person's apartment, or the inside of the average person's financial life. they have never been inside a chinese police station or a chinese orphanage. they have never seen a chinese execution or a chinese family living in a run down house in the farm country wihtout heat or water or electricity, living hand to mouth tilling the earth with hand tools. the truth is that most chinese live a very hard life.

as for the upwardly mobile chinese, most create an illusion around themselves to make their life appear better off than it really is. most are fixated upon the idea of financial success, and will sacrifice anything to acheive it, or at least the illusion thereof. many will aggrandise their acheivements, while living a hollow life, and it's a sad thing to see up close and personal. in some ways, the village peasant with next to nothing other than his bad teeth and the friends he plays mahjong on the sidewalk with next to an open fire made from packing crates from the factory over the fence has a better life.

this is what i have seen of china.

[Moonandstar 6]

unbelievable propoganda that nobody in their right mind would accept if they've ever been to the real china.

^Couldn't agree more. That's the exact same thing i was thinking a month ago when this started.

Ya know, i'm confident that my girl and her family are among the 'impoverished families' that have been stated. I'm sure that i likely have one of the poorest in-law families on this forum. Like justashooter said- one water pipe in the middle of the house that was always left on because it would rarely have water to put out; heating wasn't even part of the question; but I'll give the electricity the benefit of the doubt: my girl says what electricity they had has been there for about a good 20 years though. Only the TV, and this year's very new refrigerator to support though. Along with a couple of hanging light bulbs.

They cooked with a bonfire: kinda like a fireplace, but with metal bowels on top. Actually quite refreshing if you ask me- i enjoyed the smell of burning pine every time we cooked, and its actually a lot more efficient than it sounds. They farmed to grow their own food, and even owned a fairly large range of cotton, which i helped them harvest in October. God knows how many other little gardens they owned scattered around the village though. Her dad worked as a part time taxi driver (one of those little motorbikes with a box-like seating on the back), i say part time because, he only offered services if he was already going someplace himself. They owned a couple of chickens, and a pig, which lived inside the courtyard of their home. If you had to ######, you needed to find a public restroom. Or outhouse rather.

This is the truth of a great number of rural families in China. Personally, i found it quite relaxing. Chenjiagou is only a few steps ahead, and i enjoyed my time there (although im STILL getting used to not having heat inside!).

[Ladylethal 12]

I must say though, a 9 month old abortion is not an abortion at all, inducing labor at 9 months is just delivering a baby that is already at term, meaning if they do these they're simply killing newborn babies, not aborting anything. I know China has severe laws about the number of children a person can have and all but I thought at 9 months they would just fine the family.

[justashooter 430]

This is the truth of a great number of rural families in China. Personally, i found it quite relaxing. Chenjiagou is only a few steps ahead, and i enjoyed my time there (although im STILL getting used to not having heat inside!).

sounds like you got a good one, buddy. the best of the chinese people are those without privelege.

those with privelege are worse than most Americans. this is my experience.