Are you using me for a greencard?

[morocco4ever 63]

Proverbs 30:18-19 : There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman.

1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13 : If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

And I might add that although I am trailer trash. I am UPPER CLASS trailer trash.

I have to admit, Kat, I was very disturbed by your comment about loving someone enough to let their husband take on a second wife so that they could have a child. I will tell you that my husband did want a child. I didn't have a large window to do this, and that window is closed. We discussed what to do. I do love him enough to let him go so that he can have a child with another woman, but my one request is that he leave right away. But never would I be okay with him taking a second wife. Perhaps it is normal in their country, and I suspect it is as one suggested, that the wife doesn't have the means to make it on her own, so she accepts it. But never would I accept him taking a second wife for this. You see I know myself enough to know that it would never be okay in my heart. And I love myself enough to put boundaries on what I will and will not accept. I will never be that desperate for a man.

Another thing that I have noticed is that much of your questions appears to be rambling. And I suspect you are trying to justify many things in your own relationship. What happened, what went wrong, what you could have done to make it work. Bottom line is that he was an azzwipe that didn't love you, and is not capable of loving anyone IMO. Don't blame his family, don't blame yourself in a way that you could have done more or accepted more. He is 100% to blame for his actions. And your blame lies in what you did let him get away with. What I don't see is that in this amount of time you haven't been able to come to terms with what has happened. This is why everyone is telling you to move on. Not that everyone finds the topic interesting, but we all see it as a continuation of your situation.

And for Len, she is certainly welcome to add her .02 cents here. She doesn't fluff the situation, and tells it like it is. Moody as well. Let's face it, there is a lot of truth to what they are saying. And this is coming from someone who doesn't fit the norm. People do need to open their eyes to the fact that if it's too good to be true it probably is.

What kind of relationship would you maintain with him if he left?Are you giving him the choice to still be close to you?

No. I would want him to be happy, yes, but I wouldn't be able to see him happy with someone else. It would be to painful.

Or are you saying, leave if you want a child but leave now? What if he is in love with you? That cannot be an easy choice to make.

Yes, he would have to leave now. It wouldn't matter if he is in love with me or not. My choice is that I would not accept him being married to 2 women. His choice would be do you want to stay with me, or do you want a child? You see it does take more than love. As I stated originally I am well aware of what I can and cannot accept. Why would I try to fake it? So I have a man in my bed?

Why are you disturbed by the conversation about having multiple wives. In a case like yours, where your husband is still in love with you, being a second wife would offer you the chance to stay married and let him have a child. Being married more than once happens not only due to poverty, it happens because the husband still loves his wife but she cannot give him what he needs or wants.

Why should it always be the wife to sacrifice their desires? Why can't he as well? Marriage is a compromise.

If you marry a muslim, then why is this part of his culture or religion off limits if it fits a need. I am not saying that this is what you are or could do. But it is a viable option for someone that doesnt want to get divorced completely and still wants to meet their husbands needs.

Just because I married a Muslim is not a reason to give up my culture. It would fit only his needs, but it would destroy my heart. If I voice this to him and he chooses to marry another then the love for me wasn't as strong as it should be.

Moroccoforever, talk to some religious muslims about this and see what they have to say. I guess you could just get divorced and stay very friendly. If your husband told you, legally divorce me because I want to marry another woman and have a child with her but I still want you in my life, what would you do? Why is this a disturbing concept? Its part of his religion and done over there for the exact same reason. I am not saying that its "ok". I am saying that its done

It may be done, but it doesn't mean I need to do it. Before we married we discussed all of this. Bottom line is the door is open should he want this. And we are at a stage in the immigration that he could without having to leave the US. If he chose to leave I would understand, and wish him well. And I would be able to let go. Not that it wouldn't hurt, but I would be fine. It isn't an easy choice, but one has to be aware of what they can and can not live with. And then we are all responsible to make the necessary choices no matter how hard they are. My husband, at the time that we met, owed me the respect to make this decision before marriage. And if he can't live by this then he should have never married me. We are all accountable for knowing who we are, and we are all accountable for our own decisions. We just can't lose who we are all for a man. Nor should a man lose who he is all for a woman.

What role love comes into accepting that has to do with what you will culturally put up with. None of this applies to me, I just thought about it.

Love comes into this by first loving myself, next loving my husband. Sometimes love means letting go, not always fighting to stay together.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Proverbs 30:18-19 : There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman.

1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13 : If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

You talk alot about islam and when you quote about love, you use the bible. Could you post from the koran about forgiveness and love and patience? I dont have a website.. Id love to read it

Why should she have to quote from the Koran? I think St. Paul in his letters to the Corinthians said it perfectly. It is the word of the Lord - and it couldn't be made any more perfect. Somehow, I don't believe that even the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) could have written it any better. Love is all of those things and if you don't see it or believe it then one has a mixed up concept of love.

Furthermore, I don't understand how one cannot see that when love is used as a pretext to mask fraud that is TERRIBLY wrong. I don't care if love was ever "present" in a relationship. If you're using some chick for a greencard, well, then you're a lying, sack-of-shite, motherfvcker and there will be a long-azz place for you in Purgatory and maybe even Hell. I will also say, that if you're a woman who has pie-in-the-sky dreams that the 20-something dude that tickled your fancy on Yahoo Chat and your ####### while on vacation in some MENA country, (while no self-respecting American male would do it without throwing a bag on your head, one on his head and one on the guy looking at him from across the street); and you're claiming that everything is all rainbows and Care Bears, all the while ignoring that your red flags are flying to high heaven...you're an IDIOT!!! And, I will go so far to say that you deserve it. If someone plays you for a fool all because you had your head so far up his ####### that you could taste tabouleh well then, really, whose fault is it? It's your own - no one elses.

I know of unattractive and or obese or heavy women in real relationships. I also know of attractive women, even beautiful including some very pretty blondes on these boards who were mistreated. Statements like these staashi lead people to believe that looks are the only factors. I wanted her to post about love from the koran because I couldnt find any references when I looked.

I think there are some pretty ugly women or at least homely women married and happily to mena people so I dont think this is the only factor.Love or the man being in love with the petitioner seems to be the difference. I feel like it blames everything solely on the American and thats not fair staashi and you and I both know that. Looks are only part of the puzzle. Its the petitioners original intentions and the sponsored persons that makes the difference

[=FoxyBLUE= 2]

I told my husband once, "to you there's always the option of divorce... (the american ways and laws have shaped this thinking) to me there is no option but til death do us part. The only instance when I'll get divorce is when I am getting abused - physically."

I agree on this....

.......and EMOTIONALLY Ivy!!!

What if you really didn't used him for greencard? But He used you for personal gain? (that will be the same pain as using him for greencard)

[Susita 175]

Furthermore, I don't understand how one cannot see that when love is used as a pretext to mask fraud that is TERRIBLY wrong. I don't care if love was ever "present" in a relationship. If you're using some chick for a greencard, well, then you're a lying, sack-of-shite, motherfvcker and there will be a long-azz place for you in Purgatory and maybe even Hell. I will also say, that if you're a woman who has pie-in-the-sky dreams that the 20-something dude that tickled your fancy on Yahoo Chat and your ####### while on vacation in some MENA country, (while no self-respecting American male would do it without throwing a bag on your head, one on his head and one on the guy looking at him from across the street); and you're claiming that everything is all rainbows and Care Bears, all the while ignoring that your red flags are flying to high heaven...you're an IDIOT!!! And, I will go so far to say that you deserve it. If someone plays you for a fool all because you had your head so far up his ####### that you could taste tabouleh well then, really, whose fault is it? It's your own - no one elses.

This is true.

I know of unattractive and or obese or heavy women in real relationships.

True. But with hot 20-something year old guys? I'll admit yeah I know some overweight very attractive girls in relationships with good looking guys but come on. I'm not obese nor very unattractive, but hey I'd think for a second if some foreign guy that looks just like Mario Lopez started coming on to me, like... what's the alterior motive?

There are some telltale warning signs of fraud and looks is definitely not the only one. I think Staashi just meant that no one should be so naive to think that some hot young dude is going to hit on an older obese unattractive woman (or vise-versa) and not have any alterior motives. And if the guy turns out to be genuine... great . Props to you! But if not, at least you saw the warning signs. Know what I mean?

Edited December 11, 2009 by Susita

[Staashi 371]

Furthermore, I don't understand how one cannot see that when love is used as a pretext to mask fraud that is TERRIBLY wrong. I don't care if love was ever "present" in a relationship. If you're using some chick for a greencard, well, then you're a lying, sack-of-shite, motherfvcker and there will be a long-azz place for you in Purgatory and maybe even Hell. I will also say, that if you're a woman who has pie-in-the-sky dreams that the 20-something dude that tickled your fancy on Yahoo Chat and your ####### while on vacation in some MENA country, (while no self-respecting American male would do it without throwing a bag on your head, one on his head and one on the guy looking at him from across the street); and you're claiming that everything is all rainbows and Care Bears, all the while ignoring that your red flags are flying to high heaven...you're an IDIOT!!! And, I will go so far to say that you deserve it. If someone plays you for a fool all because you had your head so far up his ####### that you could taste tabouleh well then, really, whose fault is it? It's your own - no one elses.

This is true.

I know of unattractive and or obese or heavy women in real relationships.

True. But with hot 20-something year old guys? I'll admit yeah I know some overweight very attractive girls in relationships with good looking guys but come on. I'm not obese nor very unattractive, but hey I'd think for a second if some foreign guy that looks just like Mario Lopez started coming on to me, like... what's the alterior motive?

There are some telltale warning signs of fraud and looks is definitely not the only one. I think Staashi just meant that no one should be so naive to think that some hot young dude is going to hit on an older obese unattractive woman (or vise-versa) and not have any alterior motives. And if the guy turns out to be genuine... great . Props to you! But if not, at least you saw the warning signs. Know what I mean?

@ Mario Lopez. That's it exactly Susita!

[Susita 175]

OK so I lied. I wouldn't think twice about alterior motives, I'd just have my way with him

But that's only because I've been in love with him since I was 9.

Luis wouldn't be too happy but I'd just explain it somehow. (OMG I freakin wish )

[ya falaha! 0]

I will state my point simply...it's not ALWAYS the men who are to blame. That is my point. Sometimes marriages do not work out. Why must it always be fraud? I understand that you like to write novels and really pick apart what ppl say but seriously it's not ALWAYS fraud and it's not ALWAYS the man's fault. AND if the man is a scoundrel, SOMETIMES the woman is at fault for being gullible enough to fall for it. However, SOMETIMES the woman is innocent and the guy is that good. That being said, there have been many, many MENA members who have outrageous stories and glaring red flags (you included) and ignored them. So what I'm saying with this is, in those cases, the women are also at fault for being used. They CHOSE to ignore the signs in the sake of perceived "love".

Does it take an educated person to make horrible mistakes in choosing men? Do educated women generally choose the scum of the Arab world to marry and fornicate with? Do educated women generally accept heinous and cruel treatment of themselves? Do educated women live in a fantasy world of being loved when instead they're being cheated on, spit on, used and emotionally abused? I'm just trying to see how education works in all of this since apparently uneducated ppl can't see past class. I'd rather be judgemental about class and how a person presents him or herself or behaves than be a victim of such behavior I mentioned above.

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

I guess because I was raised with 2 PhD parents, I have never judged anyone by what they wore or where they lived and if they did not have manners, I looked for other things that they could offer and were good at. I think there is alot of classcism in America. We all have worth and it takes an educated person to look past someones exterior and see who they are inside..

Even if the guy found out he was with a hillbilly, he could still treat her with respect. The foreigners have alot we have to deal with too and get over. Its not just them dealing with us..

Lets go back to what you originally implied. You talked about how some of the guys were unfortunate to marry harpies or trailer trash as you described.

Moody,

You did not say a thing about judging mena people or their class. You talked about trailer trash. You said you didnt blame them because when they got over here they ended up with trailer trash. What should we call an arab or mena guy who cheats on his wife or beats her or has weird habits or throws cigarettes all over the ground outside? Fellahah sbel? kHanzin? Why do Americans have the patent on bad or ill behavior? What about an American who spends all her money effort and time and has an amazing and kind family only to bring someone over here who is mena trash? If we have trailer trash, then they have to have the same equivalent.

You sound like you are from there trying to justify why some of these guys do what they do. I have very frequently heard after someone used a girl for papers things like, she drank too much, she did drugs, she was trailer trash, things like that. In order to victimise someone, you need to dehumanise them. You essentially by saying these guys end up with trailer trash are buying into their garbage. They can leave and go back home to their home country. Or they can stay on the train and get their papers and then say thats why they left.

I completely understand what you are trying to say. I just dont think we have the patent on trailer trash. I think they have a hell of alot of their own...I just dont know what to call them.

Its not easy for either side. I just think that love is the deciding factor. And yes, some trailer trash as you call them and mena people actually find common ground and make things work and some people just use that as was to dehumanise who they married to make it look better when they do the inevitable.

Edited December 11, 2009 by ya falaha!

[morocco4ever 63]

The problem is that the majority of people are driven by looks. Both men and women. I would be lying if I told you that I would be interested in a man that was grossly obese and disgusting looking. I am not saying he would have to be model material, but he would have to be pleasing to the eye. Of course once a relationship has established, and love exists, age sets in and looks do eventually go, and the relationship remains solid. But it still started with a physical attraction. But it is highly unlikely that the motivation is sincere when you have one super hot stud (or studette, as the case may be) with someone that resembles a neanderthal.

[ya falaha! 0]

M4E, you're being too realistic and not analyzing the situation enough dammit. Can you fall in love with someone you find physically unattractive? I know I can't. I'm far too superficial for that. Does he have to be a 21 yr old super stud? Hell no, those types gross me out. Plus, *I* want to be the pretty one in the relationship.

[morocco4ever 63]

M4E, you're being too realistic and not analyzing the situation enough dammit. Can you fall in love with someone you find physically unattractive? I know I can't. I'm far too superficial for that. Does he have to be a 21 yr old super stud? Hell no, those types gross me out. Plus, *I* want to be the pretty one in the relationship.

I must work harder on my fairy tale world then.

[me_4_musa 1]

M4E, you're being too realistic and not analyzing the situation enough dammit. Can you fall in love with someone you find physically unattractive?

no way!!

Does he have to be a 21 yr old super stud?

no, i wouldn't know what to talk about and I know nothing about skateboarding and i'm done with the keg parties.

Plus, *I* want to be the pretty one in the relationship.

me too!!

[Susita 175]

I must work harder on my fairy tale world then.

That's what I've been doing with Mario Lopez

[Ban Hammer 13,445]

M4E, you're being too realistic and not analyzing the situation enough dammit. Can you fall in love with someone you find physically unattractive? I know I can't. I'm far too superficial for that. Does he have to be a 21 yr old super stud? Hell no, those types gross me out. Plus, *I* want to be the pretty one in the relationship.

here ya go. he's single, a virtual animal! and you can still be the pretty one.

[Susita 175]

that doesn't count Charles, he's rich... imagine all the money he's made from those Geico commercials, I mean come on, if you're rich you don't need to be a hot stud muffin.

[Nothing1234 2]

First, who really gives a ** what an ignorant jealous azz said on that board?! Many foreigners think our streets are paved in gold here and almost all Americans are rich, which is not the case. Should we run around trying to correct every ding dong that posts this as truth? Many of my Arab friends here and overseas joke about "farmers" "fallah/fallaheen" in their countries...its NOT racist Kat, its a joke that may have strong stereotypical connotations but that’s where it ends. Every culture has their own "redneck" "hillbilly" "trash" term. So what?!?

Now onto your continual use of "racist"; it annoys me to no end when people like to throw that damn phrase around and have no clue ####### they are talking about. You are so good at googling your other points....why not try googling Redneck or Trailer trash etc?!?!? In the majority of searches you will NOT find the term racist NOR discriminatory. It is in your head Kat dear...like many of your other delusional statements you’ve made along the way. People consider the term hillbilly, trailer trash, redneck, etc to be a descriptive term sometimes negative NOT racist and many that are lumped into these groups use the term within their own social circles as well! Lumping all such people together in a single group is similar to using the term Cajun as a description of a uniquely American group.

There is no direction to this thread. You keep saying the same sh!t over and over. Everyone gave their own opinions opposite of yours and you keep debating it hoping for some thread of hope that there is another delusional person out there that shares your opinions. No one is going to side with your skewed view on love and relationships. Honestly, as most have said here move on girl....move on.

I honestly think you need to stay away from these boards for a long while. Your constant swirl is very disturbing like the rants of a bipolar (mentally ill) person and at times makes many of us think either you've stopped your meds or stopped your therapy. If you have a therapist...call them ASAP...I'm not being sarcastic or mean I'm truly concerned about what floats around in your head that you've now accepted as your reality.

Does it take an educated person to make horrible mistakes in choosing men? Do educated women generally choose the scum of the Arab world to marry and fornicate with? Do educated women generally accept heinous and cruel treatment of themselves? Do educated women live in a fantasy world of being loved when instead they're being cheated on, spit on, used and emotionally abused? I'm just trying to see how education works in all of this since apparently uneducated ppl can't see past class. I'd rather be judgemental about class and how a person presents him or herself or behaves than be a victim of such behavior I mentioned above.

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

I guess because I was raised with 2 PhD parents, I have never judged anyone by what they wore or where they lived and if they did not have manners, I looked for other things that they could offer and were good at. I think there is alot of classcism in America. We all have worth and it takes an educated person to look past someones exterior and see who they are inside..

Even if the guy found out he was with a hillbilly, he could still treat her with respect. The foreigners have alot we have to deal with too and get over. Its not just them dealing with us..

I thought I would share with you some quotes from a Moroccan board where an American went for advice about her Moroccan boyfriend and the responders called her trailer trash ( they are moroccan of course and I doubt they have ever seen a trailer.) Unless you have figured this out yet,this is a term to dehumanise and put down Americans.

Some replies to the American poster..

All US people claimed they are wealthy,you are and your family are the reject of the american society you live in beer , fries and cookies.If you were wealthy you shouldn't coming to this forum looking to marry a poor educated moroccan who lives with his mother in a tent in the desert.

stick to your kind Yankee Redneck from Trailer Trash

Nial

Milton Keynes, UK

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|#15

Jan 25, 2008

do you live in a trailer with your family and share a bed with your brother?

This is actually on an arab board with an arab using the words trailer trash to insult the American poster replying to an American who lives in Virginia who is dating a Moroccan. I thought its rather strange that a Moroccan from the UK would use the words trailer trash to insult someone. It just goes to show you that this is a pretty prevalent way that Americans are looked at overseas. Imagine the automatic perception that some of these Moroccans would have based on these preconceived notions about people living in trailers..

Yankee redneck from trailer trash...yep.. that sounds pretty racist come from them

Edited December 11, 2009 by Nawal