Are you using me for a greencard?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It tiresome to read and watch some of these Americans blaming themselves entirely when the person they were involved with never loved them to begin with.

You've been there. Did you realize it then?

No I did not. I did not see alot of things coming and excused alot as culture

Ok, I'm going to remember what you're still in denial about, and as long as you won't own your behavior, you'll do it again. You did see the the bad things coming, and you told us you saw them coming. They were huge, red flags and you waved them in front of you. What we could not understand is why you just wouldn't get out of the way.

Ahh, but people who get into abusive relationships tend to fall into them time and time again. History repeats itself, despite the fact that the woman may be in denial of everything.

They are attracted to the familiar, even if it hurts.

[morocco4ever 63]

Proverbs 30:18-19 : There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman.

1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13 : If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

And I might add that although I am trailer trash. I am UPPER CLASS trailer trash.

I have to admit, Kat, I was very disturbed by your comment about loving someone enough to let their husband take on a second wife so that they could have a child. I will tell you that my husband did want a child. I didn't have a large window to do this, and that window is closed. We discussed what to do. I do love him enough to let him go so that he can have a child with another woman, but my one request is that he leave right away. But never would I be okay with him taking a second wife. Perhaps it is normal in their country, and I suspect it is as one suggested, that the wife doesn't have the means to make it on her own, so she accepts it. But never would I accept him taking a second wife for this. You see I know myself enough to know that it would never be okay in my heart. And I love myself enough to put boundaries on what I will and will not accept. I will never be that desperate for a man.

Another thing that I have noticed is that much of your questions appears to be rambling. And I suspect you are trying to justify many things in your own relationship. What happened, what went wrong, what you could have done to make it work. Bottom line is that he was an azzwipe that didn't love you, and is not capable of loving anyone IMO. Don't blame his family, don't blame yourself in a way that you could have done more or accepted more. He is 100% to blame for his actions. And your blame lies in what you did let him get away with. What I don't see is that in this amount of time you haven't been able to come to terms with what has happened. This is why everyone is telling you to move on. Not that everyone finds the topic interesting, but we all see it as a continuation of your situation.

And for Len, she is certainly welcome to add her .02 cents here. She doesn't fluff the situation, and tells it like it is. Moody as well. Let's face it, there is a lot of truth to what they are saying. And this is coming from someone who doesn't fit the norm. People do need to open their eyes to the fact that if it's too good to be true it probably is.

[ya falaha! 0]

Does it take an educated person to make horrible mistakes in choosing men? Do educated women generally choose the scum of the Arab world to marry and fornicate with? Do educated women generally accept heinous and cruel treatment of themselves? Do educated women live in a fantasy world of being loved when instead they're being cheated on, spit on, used and emotionally abused? I'm just trying to see how education works in all of this since apparently uneducated ppl can't see past class. I'd rather be judgemental about class and how a person presents him or herself or behaves than be a victim of such behavior I mentioned above.

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

I guess because I was raised with 2 PhD parents, I have never judged anyone by what they wore or where they lived and if they did not have manners, I looked for other things that they could offer and were good at. I think there is alot of classcism in America. We all have worth and it takes an educated person to look past someones exterior and see who they are inside..

Even if the guy found out he was with a hillbilly, he could still treat her with respect. The foreigners have alot we have to deal with too and get over. Its not just them dealing with us..

Edited December 11, 2009 by ya falaha!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Does it take an educated person to make horrible mistakes in choosing men? Do educated women generally choose the scum of the Arab world to marry and fornicate with? Do educated women generally accept heinous and cruel treatment of themselves? Do educated women live in a fantasy world of being loved when instead they're being cheated on, spit on, used and emotionally abused? I'm just trying to see how education works in all of this since apparently uneducated ppl can't see past class. I'd rather be judgemental about class and how a person presents him or herself or behaves than be a victim of such behavior I mentioned above.

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

I guess because I was raised with 2 PhD parents, I have never judged anyone by what they wore or where they lived and if they did not have manners, I looked for other things that they could offer and were good at. I think there is alot of classcism in America. We all have worth and it takes an educated person to look past someones exterior and see who they are inside..

Even if the guy found out he was with a hillbilly, he could still treat her with respect. The foreigners have alot we have to deal with too and get over. Its not just them dealing with us..

Lets go back to what you originally implied. You talked about how some of the guys were unfortunate to marry harpies or trailer trash as you described.

Moody,

You did not say a thing about judging mena people or their class. You talked about trailer trash. You said you didnt blame them because when they got over here they ended up with trailer trash. What should we call an arab or mena guy who cheats on his wife or beats her or has weird habits or throws cigarettes all over the ground outside? Fellahah sbel? kHanzin? Why do Americans have the patent on bad or ill behavior? What about an American who spends all her money effort and time and has an amazing and kind family only to bring someone over here who is mena trash? If we have trailer trash, then they have to have the same equivalent.

You sound like you are from there trying to justify why some of these guys do what they do. I have very frequently heard after someone used a girl for papers things like, she drank too much, she did drugs, she was trailer trash, things like that. In order to victimise someone, you need to dehumanise them. You essentially by saying these guys end up with trailer trash are buying into their garbage. They can leave and go back home to their home country. Or they can stay on the train and get their papers and then say thats why they left.

I completely understand what you are trying to say. I just dont think we have the patent on trailer trash. I think they have a hell of alot of their own...I just dont know what to call them.

Its not easy for either side. I just think that love is the deciding factor. And yes, some trailer trash as you call them and mena people actually find common ground and make things work and some people just use that as was to dehumanise who they married to make it look better when they do the inevitable.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Proverbs 30:18-19 : There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman.

1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13 : If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

And I might add that although I am trailer trash. I am UPPER CLASS trailer trash.

I have to admit, Kat, I was very disturbed by your comment about loving someone enough to let their husband take on a second wife so that they could have a child. I will tell you that my husband did want a child. I didn't have a large window to do this, and that window is closed. We discussed what to do. I do love him enough to let him go so that he can have a child with another woman, but my one request is that he leave right away. But never would I be okay with him taking a second wife. Perhaps it is normal in their country, and I suspect it is as one suggested, that the wife doesn't have the means to make it on her own, so she accepts it. But never would I accept him taking a second wife for this. You see I know myself enough to know that it would never be okay in my heart. And I love myself enough to put boundaries on what I will and will not accept. I will never be that desperate for a man.

Another thing that I have noticed is that much of your questions appears to be rambling. And I suspect you are trying to justify many things in your own relationship. What happened, what went wrong, what you could have done to make it work. Bottom line is that he was an azzwipe that didn't love you, and is not capable of loving anyone IMO. Don't blame his family, don't blame yourself in a way that you could have done more or accepted more. He is 100% to blame for his actions. And your blame lies in what you did let him get away with. What I don't see is that in this amount of time you haven't been able to come to terms with what has happened. This is why everyone is telling you to move on. Not that everyone finds the topic interesting, but we all see it as a continuation of your situation.

And for Len, she is certainly welcome to add her .02 cents here. She doesn't fluff the situation, and tells it like it is. Moody as well. Let's face it, there is a lot of truth to what they are saying. And this is coming from someone who doesn't fit the norm. People do need to open their eyes to the fact that if it's too good to be true it probably is.

What kind of relationship would you maintain with him if he left?Are you giving him the choice to still be close to you? Or are you saying, leave if you want a child but leave now? What if he is in love with you? That cannot be an easy choice to make. Why are you disturbed by the conversation about having multiple wives. In a case like yours, where your husband is still in love with you, being a second wife would offer you the chance to stay married and let him have a child. Being married more than once happens not only due to poverty, it happens because the husband still loves his wife but she cannot give him what he needs or wants. If you marry a muslim, then why is this part of his culture or religion off limits if it fits a need. I am not saying that this is what you are or could do. But it is a viable option for someone that doesnt want to get divorced completely and still wants to meet their husbands needs. Moroccoforever, talk to some religious muslims about this and see what they have to say. I guess you could just get divorced and stay very friendly. If your husband told you, legally divorce me because I want to marry another woman and have a child with her but I still want you in my life, what would you do? Why is this a disturbing concept? Its part of his religion and done over there for the exact same reason. I am not saying that its "ok". I am saying that its done

What role love comes into accepting that has to do with what you will culturally put up with. None of this applies to me, I just thought about it.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Proverbs 30:18-19 : There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman.

1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13 : If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

You talk alot about islam and when you quote about love, you use the bible. Could you post from the koran about forgiveness and love and patience? I dont have a website.. Id love to read it

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

Your job is to come up with a name for mena who throw cigarettes all over the ground, curse in arabic, cheat on their wives ( whether they are arab or trailer trash or white or whatever)wear too much cologne(drakkar noir preferably) and look like the mena version of jersey shore guidos. Thats your job. If we have trailer trash, then you have to come up with what the low life classist description of their underlings are...or because its dealing with a race, does that make it racist?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Does it take an educated person to make horrible mistakes in choosing men? Do educated women generally choose the scum of the Arab world to marry and fornicate with? Do educated women generally accept heinous and cruel treatment of themselves? Do educated women live in a fantasy world of being loved when instead they're being cheated on, spit on, used and emotionally abused? I'm just trying to see how education works in all of this since apparently uneducated ppl can't see past class. I'd rather be judgemental about class and how a person presents him or herself or behaves than be a victim of such behavior I mentioned above.

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

I guess because I was raised with 2 PhD parents, I have never judged anyone by what they wore or where they lived and if they did not have manners, I looked for other things that they could offer and were good at. I think there is alot of classcism in America. We all have worth and it takes an educated person to look past someones exterior and see who they are inside..

Even if the guy found out he was with a hillbilly, he could still treat her with respect. The foreigners have alot we have to deal with too and get over. Its not just them dealing with us..

I thought I would share with you some quotes from a Moroccan board where an American went for advice about her Moroccan boyfriend and the responders called her trailer trash ( they are moroccan of course and I doubt they have ever seen a trailer.) Unless you have figured this out yet,this is a term to dehumanise and put down Americans.

Some replies to the American poster..

All US people claimed they are wealthy,you are and your family are the reject of the american society you live in beer , fries and cookies.If you were wealthy you shouldn't coming to this forum looking to marry a poor educated moroccan who lives with his mother in a tent in the desert.

stick to your kind Yankee Redneck from Trailer Trash

Nial

Milton Keynes, UK

Reply »

|Report Abuse

|Judge it!

|#15

Jan 25, 2008

do you live in a trailer with your family and share a bed with your brother?

This is actually on an arab board with an arab using the words trailer trash to insult the American poster replying to an American who lives in Virginia who is dating a Moroccan. I thought its rather strange that a Moroccan from the UK would use the words trailer trash to insult someone. It just goes to show you that this is a pretty prevalent way that Americans are looked at overseas. Imagine the automatic perception that some of these Moroccans would have based on these preconceived notions about people living in trailers..

Yankee redneck from trailer trash...yep.. that sounds pretty racist come from them

[JeanneVictoria 55]

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

Your job is to come up with a name for mena who throw cigarettes all over the ground, curse in arabic, cheat on their wives ( whether they are arab or trailer trash or white or whatever)wear too much cologne(drakkar noir preferably) and look like the mena version of jersey shore guidos. Thats your job. If we have trailer trash, then you have to come up with what the low life classist description of their underlings are...or because its dealing with a race, does that make it racist?

Kat, just don't know what to say about this statement. I'm Italian and my dad's name was

Guido. It really offended me. I had to google "jersey shore guidos" as I had never heard of

this phrase before. It is really offensive to people of Italian heritage.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

Your job is to come up with a name for mena who throw cigarettes all over the ground, curse in arabic, cheat on their wives ( whether they are arab or trailer trash or white or whatever)wear too much cologne(drakkar noir preferably) and look like the mena version of jersey shore guidos. Thats your job. If we have trailer trash, then you have to come up with what the low life classist description of their underlings are...or because its dealing with a race, does that make it racist?

Kat, just don't know what to say about this statement. I'm Italian and my dad's name was

Guido. It really offended me. I had to google "jersey shore guidos" as I had never heard of

this phrase before. It is really offensive to people of Italian heritage.

New Jersey Shore Guidos is a show actually thats come out on the BRAVO network. Its offensive to just about everyone including Italians and is the subject of a boycott by many italian groups. Its not a reference to just italians. Its actually a group of kids who are not just italian that call themselves guidos and dress very funny and do something called fistpumping. They wear alot of jewelry, hair gel, lay in tanning beds and act generally ridiculous.

An article talking about guidos not being a bad word anymore

http://tvwatch.people.com/2009/12/08/jerse...not-a-bad-word/

Talking about the show

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/mt...tory?id=9292815

another link

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/12/04/jersey-shore-mtv/

Jersey shore guidos is a name they gave themselves and it has little to do with being Italian. Its just a new cultural sub group and a show thats come out. I think any term that lumps all people together because of their background is offensive. This is a group that is more fun than cultural but its offensive to alot of older people but not so much to the younger people..Cheers

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Trailer trash is not a racial slur. Just because someone lives in a trailer doesn't mean they are trash. It's a two-fer. Trash that lives in trailers. You know the kind I speak of. Multiple baby daddies, ####### azz clothes, no manners, f-ed up hair-dos, dirty, loud, just low class all around. Tell me there aren't MENA men who haven't married these types not realizing what they got themselves into.

where did ya_falaha said anything about American women??? where did she call you, personally, a hillbilly? #######, you are really, really pushing it.

You seriously need to move on. Pronto.

Len,

I never said that she called all women trailer trash. I dont like that expression just like someone mexican would resent someone calling someone a wetback or other derogatory term. I think trailer trash is an offensive term just because it demonises someone for where they live.

And I have to move on how? This is a mena board and I am not insulting anyone. Visit please but please do not try to run the boards. We are having a discussion and you are very welcome to be here...

Whats love got to do with it?

Your job is to come up with a name for mena who throw cigarettes all over the ground, curse in arabic, cheat on their wives ( whether they are arab or trailer trash or white or whatever)wear too much cologne(drakkar noir preferably) and look like the mena version of jersey shore guidos. Thats your job. If we have trailer trash, then you have to come up with what the low life classist description of their underlings are...or because its dealing with a race, does that make it racist?

Kat, just don't know what to say about this statement. I'm Italian and my dad's name was

Guido. It really offended me. I had to google "jersey shore guidos" as I had never heard of

this phrase before. It is really offensive to people of Italian heritage.

I didnt know you didnt know about this group. Please dont take offense..its not about Italians, it was just a reference to the new tv show which is actually quite funny and not a reflection on their ethnicity, more lifestyle..Its called Jersy shore

heres the link to the show

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/11/11/mtv-jersey-shore/

[JeanneVictoria 55]

I don't get Bravo and thanks for telling me about this show. I know you didn't want to

offend anyone Kat. I was just very uncomfortable for using my father's name with such

nonsense. No offense to you sweetie.

[Staashi 371]

Proverbs 30:18-19 : There are three things that amaze me— no, four things that I don’t understand: how an eagle glides through the sky, how a snake slithers on a rock, how a ship navigates the ocean, how a man loves a woman.

1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13 : If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

You talk alot about islam and when you quote about love, you use the bible. Could you post from the koran about forgiveness and love and patience? I dont have a website.. Id love to read it

Why should she have to quote from the Koran? I think St. Paul in his letters to the Corinthians said it perfectly. It is the word of the Lord - and it couldn't be made any more perfect. Somehow, I don't believe that even the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) could have written it any better. Love is all of those things and if you don't see it or believe it then one has a mixed up concept of love.

Furthermore, I don't understand how one cannot see that when love is used as a pretext to mask fraud that is TERRIBLY wrong. I don't care if love was ever "present" in a relationship. If you're using some chick for a greencard, well, then you're a lying, sack-of-shite, motherfvcker and there will be a long-azz place for you in Purgatory and maybe even Hell. I will also say, that if you're a woman who has pie-in-the-sky dreams that the 20-something dude that tickled your fancy on Yahoo Chat and your ####### while on vacation in some MENA country, (while no self-respecting American male would do it without throwing a bag on your head, one on his head and one on the guy looking at him from across the street); and you're claiming that everything is all rainbows and Care Bears, all the while ignoring that your red flags are flying to high heaven...you're an IDIOT!!! And, I will go so far to say that you deserve it. If someone plays you for a fool all because you had your head so far up his ####### that you could taste tabouleh well then, really, whose fault is it? It's your own - no one elses.

[UmmSqueakster 54]

To speak of islam in this matter - the Prophet (saws) once granted a woman a divorce because she did not like the way her husband looked. Do you think he'd tell a woman to stay with an abusive a-hole?

An important part of forgiveness is tawbah, repentance. In order for Allah (swt) to forgive someone their sins, they need to sincerely repent, ask for forgiveness and work very hard to never do it again. If that is what the Lord of all the worlds requires, shouldn't we hold ourselves to the same standards?

Allah (swt) tells us in the Qur'an that:

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect (30:21).

He put mawdah and rahma, love and mercy BETWEEN your hearts. In BOTH your hearts. If there is only love in your heart towards a man, then it's not from Allah (swt). A truely islamic relationship will be full of mercy and love given to the couple from Allah (swt). If it's not there, then it's not meant to be.

[sachinky 465]

WHAT is the purpose of this discussion? I mean, what is the topic in question that everyone is debating? I only see a lot of rambling.

Is Tina Turner making a comeback?