Guns and Pie

[baron555 934]

Speaking of 1911 semis only, why would you have the safety on if there is no round in the chamber?

Here are two nice articles. Condition One, on a 1911, is a very safe method of carry; it just seems scary to the uninitiated. And as the second article points out, don't confuse this discussion with any other type of pistol than a 1911. Others DO have problems with this state of readiness.

Conditions

Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous

I personally am not pro but I have never had a problem using a 1911 on Condition One.

Going to school is a must as the proper use and proper hand and finger positioning is taught. Notice on the pros that their trigger finger is rarely on the trigger; holding the arm with it on the outside of the trigger guard should be the natural postion.

[mox 298]

Carrying cocked and locked does require a higher level of expertise and, perhaps more importantly, self-trust and confidence with a certain weapon. If you are not adept and comfortable with carrying a "live" and lethal gun, will you be comfortable and capable of going through the necessary steps to assess a danger, draw, release the safety, rack the slide and fire in time, and in an effective way, to defend yourself?

I don't think it has to do with self trust and confidence, any more than wearing a helmet on a motorcycle would indicate the rider lacks self trust and confidence in his abilities as a rider. I choose an extra and sensible measure of safety, but it has nothing to do with confidence and everything to do with assessing what I believe the right and safe way to carry a firearm.

I think you're stereotyping danger zones. No place is safe. The headlines are full of crimes committed in "good neighborhoods." The VA Tech classroom was not a bad neighborhood.

In the VA tech situation, that extra 1/4 to 1/2 a second it took to chamber a round wouldn't have made a difference one way or the other. Either you'd have had time, or you'd have been dead when he walked into the classroom and started mowing people down. Same thing with Fort Hood, Columbine, and any other situation like that.

And, personally, I like to make an iron clad decision to chamber a round...then I always respect that the gun is lethal. Just chambering in a "bad hood" requires you to remember to unchamber it later on. That is were trouble can happen...you have to remember the lethal status of the gun.

It's a good policy. I too always respect that the gun is lethal, even when I'm 100% positive that the chamber is empty. Just like my dad always taught me, every gun is a loaded gun, even when it's not. And I can pretty much guarantee that if I've been in a situation where I felt like I needed to chamber a round, I won't easily forget that it's there.

[slim 1,525]

I think I just quoted every single post here so I'll have to chop some out for brevity's sake but wow! What a great thread!

For CCW, I have a 3 inch Rock Island 45 and a sweet Kimber Ultra Raptor II

But, ah.... when did the FOID card start allowing you to CCW?

Nice collection! What caliber is the printer?

Unless you're walking or driving in a pretty bad area of town,

Compared to the potential downsides, it just makes sense to carry chamber-empty. Of course, if I'm walking down a dark alley or some other potentially unsafe situation, then the echoing off the walls of my round hitting the chamber will be of very much comfort to myself, and might make any baddies hiding in the dark think twice.

Mox, I chopped this up just to shorten it but you present many legitimate concerns and raise some good questions, most of which I've given careful consideration to. I can honestly say my views have changed somewhat as well, the longer I've carried. I'll touch on the main issues here -

Round in the chamber. Sure, it makes perfect and logical sense to NOT carry a round in the chamber. It could go off. It's supposed to go off when there's a round in there, right? Well, look at it this way - your car has gas in it, right? Think of the myriad of things that have to happen before that car starts up, but also think of how relatively simple the process is... and how it could go wrong at any second. That car could just start up all by itself, right? Not likely to happen. But, in theory, it could. Same with your gun. There are usually several (redundant) safety features on a gun (and yes, your finger is one of the safeties!) that have to be bypassed in order to make the round fire. If you think of it in terms of all the things that have to happen as opposed to what could happen, it's a lot harder for that round to go off.

DEFCON levels. You should be ready to defend your life at any time, any place. Do the spidey senses tingle more in a dark alley? Sure. While conducting regular ol' white guy business do you need to be ready to pull your strap? Not so much. But, if you ever need to pull it, regardless of time or place, wouldn't you want it to be in the most ready condition possible? Sure, I know you're going to have a few seconds or a 1/2 second or whatever the studies say, but my biggest question is.......... WHAT IF YOU ONLY HAVE ONE ARM? I've chambered a lot of rounds on a lot of pistols, and it's not exactly "easy" with two hands. Ever done it with one? I can, but it's going to take me more than 1/2 a second and it's not exactly something I'd prefer to do. So, unless you've practiced chambering a round one-handed.... keep a round in the chamber and use your safety systems.

The whole purpose of CCW is to have the capability to defend your life from the threat of death or serious bodily harm. When you think of it in terms of a threat that can kill you... think that over..... KILL YOU..... YOU'RE FREAKING DEAD! (or worse, your wife and kids are getting raped in front of you, and now you can't stop it) wouldn't you want every possible advantage you could have? Plain and simple, if you're not carrying "locked and loaded" then you're selling yourself short. Granted the whole CCW thing is never a guarantee and there are a million "what ifs?" out there, but, strictly speaking from a mitigation standpoint, what if your gun accidentally goes off? Yes, that's bad. But, what if you're "not ready?" Could be a lot worse, right?

If you have never done military or police work or extensively handled handguns, cocked and locked may be risky, though the 1911 safety is usually positive and not easily taken off "safe." And there is the third safety--your trigger finger.

I have done military and police work while extensively handling handguns. In the AF, it's the Beretta 92FS (M-9) and it's carried with a round in the chamber, safety flicked (decocked) up to FIRE. At first, it's scary to carry like that. The gun is literally ready to fire at any second. All it needs is for the trigger to get squeezed or to catch on something and BOOM! the shot is off. But, to the more careful observer, the gun is 100% safe. Why? Because of the redundant safety features and all the things that HAVE TO HAPPEN before it'll fire.

I don't know exactly how many days I carried the M-9 just like that, but I'll never forget the one day I did snag the trigger on something. I was standing outside the guard shack at an Entry Control Point smoking and joking with my co-worker. I was leaning back against an old fence and when I was done smoking, I went to step away from the fence and felt it tug back. Not thinking anything of it (and definitely not thinking about the loaded pistol on my side) I pulled harder away from the fence and it pulled right back. I pulled, the fence pulled, I pulled.... "WHOA!!! STOP! STOP! STOP! DON'T MOVE!...... Dude, your gun's caught on the fence."

Every gun's safety features are different and it's important to know and practice with yours, but the fact is, it's extremely hard for a gun to go off when you don't want it too.

I personally don't like to think of the trigger finger as a third safety. I'm not trying to play semantics, but I've talked with other guys who really do consider the trigger finger as that third safety. And if my trigger had some kind of mechanism where it could distinguish actual intent to pull the trigger from some kind of involuntary oopsie, then yeah, I would.

You should absolutely only carry in a condition that makes you comfortable. However, you should try to "work up" to the most ready condition you can safely carry in. Your trigger distinguishes from involuntary oopsies by making sure it's pulled all the way to the rear, and only when the manual safety is off. When it's on, the trigger won't even move. An oopsie shouldn't be able to do both, should it? And if you're involved in one of those oopsies where it does happen to do both (and you have no round chambered) but then you need to draw and fire, is your oopsie sufficiently separated from you to allow you to disengage, use both hands to chamber a round, then re-engage?

You have a pistol chock-full of safety features, mox. Use them. Learn to use them right, practice safely, maybe even get some assistance. You got a tutor for language, right? Why not find someone in your area to show you a little something about carrying? I'm not a big fan of those high-priced schools taught by "experts" because so much of this stuff is "in theory" but one thing I do know is grandma who knows her gun is going to kick homeboy's @$$ any day. Think VJ has a lot of info? Check a gun site! There are hundreds of pretty good carry forums out there. Read up! I bet you'll find someone in your area who'd love to go to the range with you and share what they know. Hell, I've had literally thousands of dollars of "free" training because people I know paid for it and then shared it with me.

I agree, if the slide jams you are fuck3d sideways. But keeping the gun well maintained and staying current should alleviate that for all but the craziest sort of bad luck.

If and should are the key words in your sentence. Ask Murphy about if and should.

Also, ask yourself again, what "if" you only have one arm free to use? What if it's your weak arm? What if? What if? What if? - and that's why we carry!

And again, I think the situation should guide your DEFCON level. If my car breaks down in a bad neighborhood, then yeah I'm gonna have a round in the chamber while I change the tire or wait for AAA or whatever. If I'm out for a stroll in the mall or just doing my normal middle-class white dude stuff, then there's no reason to have a full chamber.

Then why even bring your gun at all?

Sure, there are times when your chances of being victimized increase, however, the ONLY REASON you should carry (and I say this because it's legally-based) is to defend yourself against death or serious bodily harm. Therefore, whenever you're carrying, your chances of being victimized should be slim to none regardless of where you are or what the situation is. You should be able to stop someone from victimizing you.

One good shot will do the trick (am I allowed to say that on the forum???)

You're allowed to say that on this forum!

In the VA tech situation, that extra 1/4 to 1/2 a second it took to chamber a round wouldn't have made a difference one way or the other. Either you'd have had time, or you'd have been dead when he walked into the classroom and started mowing people down. Same thing with Fort Hood, Columbine, and any other situation like that.

Maybe not. Maybe so. None of us will ever know.

However, I know for sure if I needed that extra 1/4 of a second and didn't have it, then had to live with the fact that someone died because I'd tried to mitigate the risk of an accidental discharge instead of being ready to counter a threat, I'd probably feel pretty bad about it for the rest of my life. I really hope it wasn't someone like my wife or kids or best buddy or even a complete stranger that I watched die because I couldn't respond.

It's a good policy. I too always respect that the gun is lethal, even when I'm 100% positive that the chamber is empty. Just like my dad always taught me, every gun is a loaded gun, even when it's not. And I can pretty much guarantee that if I've been in a situation where I felt like I needed to chamber a round, I won't easily forget that it's there.

I was in a situation recently where I felt like I needed to chamber a round. I didn't even have my gun with me. At that time, I wasn't carrying locked and loaded either because I still hadn't done enough research on it and practiced enough and I just wasn't ready to do it. Needless to say, I'm ALWAYS locked and loaded now.

I'm very fortunate the situation turned out the way it did and I wasn't harmed. However, it definitely opened my eyes to the necessity of carrying, and if you're going to carry, being ready for anything - at a moments notice.

[mox 298]

Bah...multi-posting across 2 posts because the stupid forum software keeps telling me I have too many quotes. Sorry for the novel, all!

I think I just quoted every single post here so I'll have to chop some out for brevity's sake but wow! What a great thread!

Definitely, I'm enjoying it a lot.

Mox, I chopped this up just to shorten it but you present many legitimate concerns and raise some good questions, most of which I've given careful consideration to. I can honestly say my views have changed somewhat as well, the longer I've carried. I'll touch on the main issues here -

Round in the chamber. Sure, it makes perfect and logical sense to NOT carry a round in the chamber. It could go off. It's supposed to go off when there's a round in there, right? Well, look at it this way - your car has gas in it, right? Think of the myriad of things that have to happen before that car starts up, but also think of how relatively simple the process is... and how it could go wrong at any second. That car could just start up all by itself, right? Not likely to happen. But, in theory, it could. Same with your gun. There are usually several (redundant) safety features on a gun (and yes, your finger is one of the safeties!) that have to be bypassed in order to make the round fire. If you think of it in terms of all the things that have to happen as opposed to what could happen, it's a lot harder for that round to go off.

Hmm, I don't think the analogy really holds. The odds of your car starting "accidentally" are probably non-existent unless you've dinked with it and really broken something.

I do, however, take your point. Yeah, a LOT of things have to go wrong. What's wrong with making sure there would have to be one more thing to go wrong? I think a 1/2 second penalty in a situation that I most likely will never find myself in is an acceptable risk.

DEFCON levels. You should be ready to defend your life at any time, any place. Do the spidey senses tingle more in a dark alley? Sure. While conducting regular ol' white guy business do you need to be ready to pull your strap? Not so much. But, if you ever need to pull it, regardless of time or place, wouldn't you want it to be in the most ready condition possible? Sure, I know you're going to have a few seconds or a 1/2 second or whatever the studies say, but my biggest question is.......... WHAT IF YOU ONLY HAVE ONE ARM? I've chambered a lot of rounds on a lot of pistols, and it's not exactly "easy" with two hands. Ever done it with one? I can, but it's going to take me more than 1/2 a second and it's not exactly something I'd prefer to do. So, unless you've practiced chambering a round one-handed.... keep a round in the chamber and use your safety systems.

This is a question I see a lot, and one that I've thought a lot about too. I too have a dickens of a time sliding with one arm. I don't know that I could do it consistently under duress. Right now, I guess I'm of the mind that if I find myself in a very bad situation, with only one available arm, then I'm having a very bad day.

The whole purpose of CCW is to have the capability to defend your life from the threat of death or serious bodily harm. When you think of it in terms of a threat that can kill you... think that over..... KILL YOU..... YOU'RE FREAKING DEAD! (or worse, your wife and kids are getting raped in front of you, and now you can't stop it) wouldn't you want every possible advantage you could have? Plain and simple, if you're not carrying "locked and loaded" then you're selling yourself short. Granted the whole CCW thing is never a guarantee and there are a million "what ifs?" out there, but, strictly speaking from a mitigation standpoint, what if your gun accidentally goes off? Yes, that's bad. But, what if you're "not ready?" Could be a lot worse, right?

Exactly my point. One of your what-if's is "what if I only have one hand?" But what if the round in your chamber is a dud? What if the gun jams? What if you miss? What if you can't get a clear shot? What if a cop mistakes you for a bad guy? What if you hit an innocent? There's just no way we are ever going to be able to cover all the variables once we're in a situation. But I *can* control the risk associated with every day CCW. And while I understand that the risk of carrying a round in the chamber (to reiterate, we're talking about 1911's ONLY!) is still relatively small, the risk of carrying an empty chamber is magnitudes smaller.

By the way, I'm ####### about risk management because I'm also a pilot. As a pilot, I practice risk management and risk mitigation even days or weeks before a flight. It doesn't mean I'm afraid of flying, or that I don't trust my flying skills, or even that I'm uncomfortable with the airplane and the equipment. But just like handling a gun, flying has inherent risks. Now, some pilots have been flying their Cessna 172 or whatever for so long, that they don't bother with a checklist anymore. They've got it memorized. I too have the checklist memorized, but I always use it anyway. Accuse me of wearing a belt with my suspenders if you will, but just by using that physical checklist I've mitigated a bunch of risk. On the other hand, I don't insist on one of those "oh #######" parachute systems you can deploy if your aircraft becomes disabled, because I have confidence in myself that I can land an airplane even with an engine out. Now you could point out a bunch of different situations (such as mountain flying) where the "oh #######" parachute system would possibly be the only way to save my life, but I have to go back to risk management: the odds of me being in that situation are low enough that I'm not going to worry about it. Just like the odds of me being in a situation where I need that extra 1/2 second to chamber a round.

[mox 298]

You have a pistol chock-full of safety features, mox. Use them. Learn to use them right, practice safely, maybe even get some assistance. You got a tutor for language, right? Why not find someone in your area to show you a little something about carrying? I'm not a big fan of those high-priced schools taught by "experts" because so much of this stuff is "in theory" but one thing I do know is grandma who knows her gun is going to kick homeboy's @$$ any day. Think VJ has a lot of info? Check a gun site! There are hundreds of pretty good carry forums out there. Read up! I bet you'll find someone in your area who'd love to go to the range with you and share what they know. Hell, I've had literally thousands of dollars of "free" training because people I know paid for it and then shared it with me.

It is a sweetheart.

Way ahead of you actually. Took a great handgun safety class (required by state law) taught by an outstanding instructor. I've also been hanging around some gun forums (since I had the Sig, actually), and I'm heartened to see that this exact debate is going on all over the net. I may be wrong, but a LOT of other people are wrong about it too.

I agree, if the slide jams you are fuck3d sideways. But keeping the gun well maintained and staying current should alleviate that for all but the craziest sort of bad luck.

If and should are the key words in your sentence. Ask Murphy about if and should.

Yeah but the what-if's work both way, as I noted above.

And again, I think the situation should guide your DEFCON level. If my car breaks down in a bad neighborhood, then yeah I'm gonna have a round in the chamber while I change the tire or wait for AAA or whatever. If I'm out for a stroll in the mall or just doing my normal middle-class white dude stuff, then there's no reason to have a full chamber.

Then why even bring your gun at all?

Because my gun is only ever about 1/2 second away from being as deadly as your fully-chambered gun, and while the odds of violence happening during my middle-class white dude stuff are statistically lower, the possibility still exists. (also, you may recall the reason I started carrying at all...that threat has, sadly, not gone away)

In the VA tech situation, that extra 1/4 to 1/2 a second it took to chamber a round wouldn't have made a difference one way or the other. Either you'd have had time, or you'd have been dead when he walked into the classroom and started mowing people down. Same thing with Fort Hood, Columbine, and any other situation like that.

Maybe not. Maybe so. None of us will ever know.

However, I know for sure if I needed that extra 1/4 of a second and didn't have it, then had to live with the fact that someone died because I'd tried to mitigate the risk of an accidental discharge instead of being ready to counter a threat, I'd probably feel pretty bad about it for the rest of my life. I really hope it wasn't someone like my wife or kids or best buddy or even a complete stranger that I watched die because I couldn't respond.

But seriously, what are the odds you'll ever find yourself in a situation where it literally came down to 1/2 a second? I mean, you don't carry a parachute when you fly commercial do you? You don't flee indoors at the first indication of a thunderstorm do you? You don't drive a tank or only cross the street at night when there are no cars do you? You're more likely to be in a commercial airline crash, hit by lightning, involved in a car crash, or struck by a vehicle as a pedestrian than you are to be involved in a shooting situation where 1/2 a second matters, but you're mitigating the risk as if this is the most likely outcome. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

[baron555 934]

Haven't had tons of time to digest all the recent post but to just clarify a couple of ponts:

Slim, those are the pistols I would carry if I could here in the police state of Illinois. I am ready whenever we might never get the chance here.

In VA Tech and Columbine, an experienced shooter would have recoginized those pop pop sounds from the hallway and would have taken a defensive position and been drawn and ready without any need to rack the slide. Mox I did not mean to question your resolve or anything just that most experts agree the Condition One (ONLY talking 1911s) is the best defensive stance. As Slim points out, one must be ready to defend their life and family even when the conditions don't seem to warrant it.

[mox 298]

In VA Tech and Columbine, an experienced shooter would have recoginized those pop pop sounds from the hallway and would have taken a defensive position and been drawn and ready without any need to rack the slide.

Pretty much my point Barron. If you were in the classroom and heard the pops from the hallway, you'd have had plenty of time to chamber a round and situate yourself into a defensive position.

Mox I did not mean to question your resolve or anything just that most experts agree the Condition One (ONLY talking 1911s) is the best defensive stance. As Slim points out, one must be ready to defend their life and family even when the conditions don't seem to warrant it.

Nope, no offense taken at all. Completely agree with the bolded part.

[sara..... 371]

i have been around guns all my life rifle and hand guns (22 not such a great age) but i can honestly state i have never lost a deer or elk because there was not one in the chamber......as far as a hand gun with one in the chamber i do not do that either.......it dont take that long to put one in......

just my opinion

sara

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Speaking of 1911 semis only, why would you have the safety on if there is no round in the chamber?

Here are two nice articles. Condition One, on a 1911, is a very safe method of carry; it just seems scary to the uninitiated. And as the second article points out, don't confuse this discussion with any other type of pistol than a 1911. Others DO have problems with this state of readiness.

Conditions

Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous

I personally am not pro but I have never had a problem using a 1911 on Condition One.

Going to school is a must as the proper use and proper hand and finger positioning is taught. Notice on the pros that their trigger finger is rarely on the trigger; holding the arm with it on the outside of the trigger guard should be the natural postion.

Until recently I routinely carried a M1911 handgun everywhere and never ever considered carrying it in any way other than it was designed...cocked and locked, loaded round in the chamber. I did this for many years in both concealed and open carry in about every type of condition you can imagine and never thought twice about it. I have a fairly complete collection of M1911s from an original M1911, M1911A1, Commander series 70, and a couple of Kimbers, of which for the last few years I was carrying the Kimber Ultra CDP with 3" barrel. ALL were always carried cocked and locked.

I have recently started carrying an M1903 Colt .32 pocket hammerless. It is a very slim and easy gun to carry. I keep the M1911 in the car now...cocked and locked, of course.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Unless you're walking or driving in a pretty bad area of town, a darkly lit parking lot or garage, or some other potentially bad situation, packing "condition one" imho is packing on the wrong side of the risk analysis curve. Even if you trust your safety implicitly, ####### happens. It takes one tiny moment of inattention--only one, and humans are notorious for moments of inattention, even the most cautious of us. I just don't see any benefit whatsoever in carrying cocked and locked for the majority of situations. Unless you live in the projects, you don't live under conditions where it's sensible to carry cocked and locked.

I live in a STATE that probably has less crime than any given BUILDING in any given Ghetto. I would never carry a M1911 style auto in any methid other than cocked and locked for any reason. For that matter, I carry the M1903 cocked and locked also. If I didn't have the nerve the carry a dangerous weapon in a dangerous manner as it is designed to be carried, then I would switch to a double action revolver. A man has to know his limitations.

The reason our state has less crime is people are not afraid to carry guns cocked and locked.

Kind of like the .375 H&H behind the kitchen door.

Alla: What kind of gun is that?

Gary: It is an elephant gun

Alla: WHY do we have an elephant gun behind the kitchen door?

Gary: Alla, have you ANY idea what a rogue elephant would do to your flower gradens?

Alla: But Gary, there ARE no elephants in Vermont.

Gary: Of course, silly! The elephant gun keeps them away!

[mox 298]

If I didn't have the nerve the carry a dangerous weapon in a dangerous manner as it is designed to be carried, then I would switch to a double action revolver. A man has to know his limitations.

Once again, carrying Condition 3 has absolutely nothing to do with nerve or comfort level, any more than wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle has anything to do with the rider's confidence in their bike handling abilities.

With regards to elephant guns, I always wondered how they get their toes past the trigger guard...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If I didn't have the nerve the carry a dangerous weapon in a dangerous manner as it is designed to be carried, then I would switch to a double action revolver. A man has to know his limitations.

Once again, carrying Condition 3 has absolutely nothing to do with nerve or comfort level, any more than wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle has anything to do with the rider's confidence in their bike handling abilities.

With regards to elephant guns, I always wondered how they get their toes past the trigger guard...

True. But why would one choose to carry a gun in a manner that is at a distinct tactical disadvantage (and I really am not going to get into split seconds or quick draw contests as such is just silly talk) when one could carry another gun just as safely and at much less disdvantage?

For example, I have an S&W Centennial DAO revolver, why not carry that rather than an M1911 in condition 3? The M1911 was designed for condition 1 carry, condition 2 is defintely dangerous as lowering the hammer on a livce round is far more dangerous than carrying cocked and locked. There are just so many choices and styles of firearms I just don't get it. The M1911 is what it is, carry it as such or choose something else. I have many different CC handguns which are usually chosen by my other clothing, rather than by anything else. An M1903 is really easy to conceal when wearing shorts and T-shirt in the summer, an M1911 is not so. I will not argue "effectiveness" except to say that the .32 ACP is just as likely to discouraged someone wanting my wallet as much as the .45 ACP. I can easily drop the S&W centennial in my coat pocket if I decide to run out for some things at the store and do not need a holster for it. At home, where there are no clothing restrictrions, a short barreled 12 ga with number 4 buckshot trumps them all.

Oh, and if I rode a motorcycle, i would wear a helmet, I DO wear seat belts and I am generally a safety kinda guy...there is nothing unsafe about carrying the M1911 condition 1.

[mox 298]

There are just so many choices and styles of firearms I just don't get it. The M1911 is what it is, carry it as such or choose something else.

Surprisingly the best opposing argument I've heard yet.

My answer is: why not? I like the gun, it meets my needs perfectly, and all things considered I'm not at any more of a disadvantage carrying a M1911 condition 3 than I am carrying any other handgun condition 3. And in situations where I feel the need to go condition 1, it is--as has been said--still a very safe weapon.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There are just so many choices and styles of firearms I just don't get it. The M1911 is what it is, carry it as such or choose something else.

Surprisingly the best opposing argument I've heard yet.

My answer is: why not? I like the gun, it meets my needs perfectly, and all things considered I'm not at any more of a disadvantage carrying a M1911 condition 3 than I am carrying any other handgun condition 3. And in situations where I feel the need to go condition 1, it is--as has been said--still a very safe weapon.

well, it isn't something I am going to argue about, at least we agree on the main thing...always carry a gun. But I will never carry an M1911 style any other way and always considered things like "Double action M1911s" a solution to a non-existant problem.

I also cannot fault your taste, the M1911 is a fine pistol, IMO it better meets your needs when carried cocked and locked.

[Martyshk 137]

The only thing I have to say about hand guns here: If you are not ready to use it, please don't carry it

So many retards get shot for just pulling out their guns (Philly and all)...