Guns and Pie

[mox 298]

Is that 20 rounds in the gun or 20 rounds on your person? Also, is that state-wide or is that local?

20 rounds in the clip. There might be some city ordinances that restrict it further, but none that I'm aware of, and none in my immediate vicinity. (btw, no longer a Californian, so my shootin' world's opened up quite a bit!)

You're the best wingman ever, bro! Of course I like to see small hands on my hawg. It makes it look so big!

You know I've always got your back bro!

[slim 1,530]

20 rounds in the clip. There might be some city ordinances that restrict it further, but none that I'm aware of, and none in my immediate vicinity. (btw, no longer a Californian, so my shootin' world's opened up quite a bit!)

Well that's good news!

[Ban Hammer 13,514]

For self defense any caliber beginning with a 4 or higher is best.

[visaveteran 1]

For self defense any caliber beginning with a 4 or higher is best.

Conceal carrying a large caliber handgun is difficult and uncomfortable. And it's hard to conceal such handguns. I own a 1911 Commander size .45 and it's just hard to carry and conceal despite its stopping power and tested qualities. And there is the carrying in the car issue which requires a different holster than walking around town. The smaller 1911 style guns like the Para Hawg have notorious spring problems due to their short slide. You have to install new springs every 1000 rounds or so to ensure reliability.

Therefore, I like the variety of .380 small guns that when used with killer rounds have the best size to knock down ratio. These guns are easily concealed and light weight. I might keep the 1911 in my car in case I need it, but for walking around I like the small .380 guns.

[slim 1,530]

Conceal carrying a large caliber handgun is difficult and uncomfortable. And it's hard to conceal such handguns. I own a 1911 Commander size .45 and it's just hard to carry and conceal despite its stopping power and tested qualities. And there is the carrying in the car issue which requires a different holster than walking around town.

Have you tried IWB @ 4:30? I believe that's the best "all around" carry option as once it's there, it's gone. I had an adjustment period when I first started carrying and the car probably was the most uncomfortable because it would jab into my back or catch on the seatbelt or something like that. For probably a whole month I wasn't comfortable and constantly worrying about clearing everything. Then, one day, it just clicked and it all came together. Now, I feel naked if I leave home without it.

Another issue with the 1911 is which condition to carry in. When I first started, I was very apprehensive to carry "cocked and locked" because I didn't have enough faith in the safety systems. After some convincing by my buddies who'd carried for a long time I gave it a shot. - And then I dropped my gun one day when getting out of my Jeep. It happened in slow motion and landed on the concrete, jelly-side down. (Which would be barrel pointing up... right at me....) After de-puckering, I picked it up and walked inside, now fully faithful in my safeties. So, now when I carry, it's cocked and locked, ready to go, IWB @ about 4:30.

The smaller 1911 style guns like the Para Hawg have notorious spring problems due to their short slide. You have to install new springs every 1000 rounds or so to ensure reliability.

From what I've heard it takes all 1911s about 500 rounds to really get broken-in. This is supported by the fact that I traded for my Hawg and going through the paperwork it looks like it was returned to the factory for some maintenance after several FTFs and FTEs. I'm assuming the original buyer shot a few hundred rounds, wasn't happy with the stoppages and sent it back to get fixed. After getting it back, it functioned fine for another hundred or two rounds but they still weren't 100% satisfied with the reliability so they traded it in. Since I've had it, I've fired somewhere around 200 rounds without a single problem. That ought to leave me about 300 rounds more before I have to start looking for spring problems. I've inspected the spring and it looks just fine. Matter of fact, I believe that was one of the items they replaced at the factory so I could have 700-800 rounds left before I need to start keeping a close eye on it. I fire about 50 rounds every couple of months, but to be honest, I don't like shooting pistols all that much. Hurts my wrists (not shooting... reaching for my wallet!).

Therefore, I like the variety of .380 small guns that when used with killer rounds have the best size to knock down ratio. These guns are easily concealed and light weight. I might keep the 1911 in my car in case I need it, but for walking around I like the small .380 guns.

I'm with you on that. I'm a big fan of .380 as it's small but packs a pretty good punch. This is what I carried in high school and I only recently got rid of mine because it hadn't been shot or carried in a long time. I'm not a big fan of keeping guns around that don't get used. Better to pass them on to someone who's going to use them.

For women or smaller men, I always recommend a .380 if they're going to carry an auto. Or, as you pointed out VV, it's a good option when your "bigger gun" has to stay in the car.

For the record, I don't mess with anything in between those two calibers. I used to pack a Desert Eagle in .357 mag. but that was just a tad too big for everyday carry. I traded it for a nice Winchester 1300 Defender and some boot. They're about the same size and weight so I figured, "why not?"

[BluesTraveler 0]

Colt's Christmas marketing team

Edited December 15, 2009 by BluesTraveler

[slim 1,530]

Colt's Christmas marketing team

Judging by those prices (and the awesome graphics!) that's pretty old. You can't touch anything Colt for that money now. Even stuff like Colt officially licensed ear muffs are priced pretty high. I saw a Colt hat pin and it was $20.

However, I drink the Colt kool-aid as I'm the proud owner of a Colt Match Target Rifle. As pricey as they are, I'm fully satisfied with their value. Soon as I get some money together, my wife's going to have one too. Now that's true love - his and hers Target Rifles.

[baron555 934]

Just some quick quips:

Yes, Condition One is the best way to carry a 1911-A1; with today's double safeties (thumb and grip) there really is no issue (as Slim has found out).

Some 1911s need a lot of break in. My Rock Islands and Colts never did; all of my 9mms did.

Yes a revolver and then in .38 is the best for a woman. Semis can be a bit daunting to handle and the recoil on a .38 is very manageable. Obviously shot selection or placement is key (regardless of caliber).

For CCW, I have a 3 inch Rock Island 45 and a sweet Kimber Ultra Raptor II that conceals very nicely, both are very smooth and accurate and the 45 caliber makes one take notice.

[ScratchIt 12]

mmmmmmm, guns. Here are a few members of my "crew".

Nice collection! What caliber is the printer? (sorry - sometimes I just can't help myself!)

[mox 298]

Unless you're walking or driving in a pretty bad area of town, a darkly lit parking lot or garage, or some other potentially bad situation, packing "condition one" imho is packing on the wrong side of the risk analysis curve. Even if you trust your safety implicitly, ####### happens. It takes one tiny moment of inattention--only one, and humans are notorious for moments of inattention, even the most cautious of us. I just don't see any benefit whatsoever in carrying cocked and locked for the majority of situations. Unless you live in the projects, you don't live under conditions where it's sensible to carry cocked and locked.

[mox 298]

By way of follow-up, I'll just add that I wouldn't advocate packing with a round in the chamber either. In your lifetime (unless you are constantly putting yourself in dangerous situations), you might have 2-3 times where drawing your weapon is justified. Will that extra half a second that it takes to chamber a round really make the difference? And more to the point, does the bad guy know your chamber is empty? When thinking about risk analysis, which is what a handgun owner should always be doing, the odds are simply that you're going to have that 1/2 second to chamber a round if things get bad. Compared to the potential downsides, it just makes sense to carry chamber-empty.

Of course, if I'm walking down a dark alley or some other potentially unsafe situation, then the echoing off the walls of my round hitting the chamber will be of very much comfort to myself, and might make any baddies hiding in the dark think twice.

[visaveteran 1]

If you have never done military or police work or extensively handled handguns, cocked and locked may be risky, though the 1911 safety is usually positive and not easily taken off "safe." And there is the third safety--your trigger finger.

I would not leave the chamber empty. If things go hinky, they will probably happen fast. To draw, rack the slide, take off the safety and aim under split second conditions might cost you your life. And what if the gun jams? If you have already chambered a round, you know you have at least one clean shot.

If you carry to merely frighten off an assailant by presenting a weapon, then play it safe. If you carry to save your life under all conditions, go combat mode.

[mox 298]

If you have never done military or police work or extensively handled handguns, cocked and locked may be risky, though the 1911 safety is usually positive and not easily taken off "safe." And there is the third safety--your trigger finger.

I personally don't like to think of the trigger finger as a third safety. I'm not trying to play semantics, but I've talked with other guys who really do consider the trigger finger as that third safety. And if my trigger had some kind of mechanism where it could distinguish actual intent to pull the trigger from some kind of involuntary oopsie, then yeah, I would. Otherwise, I consider my trigger finger the literal kill switch. Again, not playing semantics, that's my personal mentality. I've never done police work, and I consider myself an amateur, so I do take the extra cautious road. As Mr. Callahan once said, "a man's got to know his limitations."

I would not leave the chamber empty. If things go hinky, they will probably happen fast. To draw, rack the slide, take off the safety and aim under split second conditions might cost you your life. And what if the gun jams? If you have already chambered a round, you know you have at least one clean shot.

I agree, if the slide jams you are fuck3d sideways. But keeping the gun well maintained and staying current should alleviate that for all but the craziest sort of bad luck. And again, I think the situation should guide your DEFCON level. If my car breaks down in a bad neighborhood, then yeah I'm gonna have a round in the chamber while I change the tire or wait for AAA or whatever. If I'm out for a stroll in the mall or just doing my normal middle-class white dude stuff, then there's no reason to have a full chamber.

If you carry to merely frighten off an assailant by presenting a weapon, then play it safe. If you carry to save your life under all conditions, go combat mode.

I think you can do both, with the caveat that carrying solely to frighten is a bluff you'd better hope never gets called. As for me, if I've made the decision to unholster, then I'm intending to use it. Now if they turn tail and run, that's all fine and good, I'll call it even at that point. And if I think the situation warrants me holding off racking a round immediately, I'll leave it up to the bad guy to play "what's in the chamber?"

[CDAgirlMI 51]

Anyone interested in purchasing a firearm should also consider joining a gun club. That's where I "picked" out my first firearm.

I too, have small hands, but some guns come with interchangable grips you could consider(or marry a gunsmith, who can custom build you a sweeet gun, like me )

10, 15, 20 rounds in the mag....doesn't matter. One good shot will do the trick

(am I allowed to say that on the forum???)

[visaveteran 1]

If you have never done military or police work or extensively handled handguns, cocked and locked may be risky, though the 1911 safety is usually positive and not easily taken off "safe." And there is the third safety--your trigger finger.

I personally don't like to think of the trigger finger as a third safety. I'm not trying to play semantics, but I've talked with other guys who really do consider the trigger finger as that third safety. And if my trigger had some kind of mechanism where it could distinguish actual intent to pull the trigger from some kind of involuntary oopsie, then yeah, I would. Otherwise, I consider my trigger finger the literal kill switch. Again, not playing semantics, that's my personal mentality. I've never done police work, and I consider myself an amateur, so I do take the extra cautious road. As Mr. Callahan once said, "a man's got to know his limitations."

I would not leave the chamber empty. If things go hinky, they will probably happen fast. To draw, rack the slide, take off the safety and aim under split second conditions might cost you your life. And what if the gun jams? If you have already chambered a round, you know you have at least one clean shot.

I agree, if the slide jams you are fuck3d sideways. But keeping the gun well maintained and staying current should alleviate that for all but the craziest sort of bad luck. And again, I think the situation should guide your DEFCON level. If my car breaks down in a bad neighborhood, then yeah I'm gonna have a round in the chamber while I change the tire or wait for AAA or whatever. If I'm out for a stroll in the mall or just doing my normal middle-class white dude stuff, then there's no reason to have a full chamber.

If you carry to merely frighten off an assailant by presenting a weapon, then play it safe. If you carry to save your life under all conditions, go combat mode.

I think you can do both, with the caveat that carrying solely to frighten is a bluff you'd better hope never gets called. As for me, if I've made the decision to unholster, then I'm intending to use it. Now if they turn tail and run, that's all fine and good, I'll call it even at that point. And if I think the situation warrants me holding off racking a round immediately, I'll leave it up to the bad guy to play "what's in the chamber?"

Carrying cocked and locked does require a higher level of expertise and, perhaps more importantly, self-trust and confidence with a certain weapon. If you are not adept and comfortable with carrying a "live" and lethal gun, will you be comfortable and capable of going through the necessary steps to assess a danger, draw, release the safety, rack the slide and fire in time, and in an effective way, to defend yourself?

I think you're stereotyping danger zones. No place is safe. The headlines are full of crimes committed in "good neighborhoods." The VA Tech classroom was not a bad neighborhood. And, personally, I like to make an iron clad decision to chamber a round...then I always respect that the gun is lethal. Just chambering in a "bad hood" requires you to remember to unchamber it later on. That is were trouble can happen...you have to remember the lethal status of the gun.