Guns and Pie

[slim 1,525]

If that bothers you, stick your head back in the sand!

The truth has never bothered me.

What has bothered me is there are many Americans out there who have no problem with laws being passed to restrict certain groups of poeple as long as it's not their own group that's being restricted.

Now the libs should start shouting about the criminal's rights. And the why some folks of certain skin color or ethnic backgrounds tend to form a larger portion of these groups of criminals or those with criminal records is really a different discussion.

I agree 100%. The color of a criminal's skin shouldn't matter at all.

They should all be shot equally!

My point was mostly about a 19 year old retards from city's outskirts,

If 19-year-olds are possessing handguns and bringing them to the city, then they're violating the law and are, themselves, criminals.

I am not worried about people in the city getting more guns. I am worried about the retards from suburbia coming over to the city with their guns.

Why? Are those the retards that're responsible for the city's homicides?

I know you previously posted about retards from suburbia pulling out and not knowing how to use their gun - then getting shot. Is that what you're referring to? Are you actually implying that a significant number of homicides in Philly are caused by suburban "wannabe gangstas" who pull out on the wrong OG?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen or hasn't happened, but I'm pretty sure that's not a significant cause of homicide in Philly - or anywhere else for that matter. You see a lot of that on TV, but not so much in real life. When it comes to reality, kids from suburbia are actually smart enough to conduct whatever business they may have downtown and then get right back out to the burbs.

At least out in the boonies in Pennsyltucky people know how to use guns and they grow up shooting guns.

Those aren't the same kids causing the homicides in Philly are they?

In any case, I am ill equipped for this conversation

As an LPR (or, you've gotta be a USC by now, right?) you are just as equipped for this conversation as the rest of us. I mean, you live in America, right?

As for actual "equipment" if you don't own one, you should get one.

I believe it is because we have created an un-freindly climate for criminals. Such behavior is simply not acceptable. Respect for peoples property and work is acceptable...ALL people and ALL work. Drug dealers are not heroes to local children. The government is not a substitute father. It is not "cool" to be a bad guy, it is "cool" to be a good guy. And yes, we have guns, criminals are not interested in opening business in Vermont.

If you would've posted this on page 3, this thread would've been done by page 4 after a whole bunch of from everyone.

[Nasturtium 500]

Welcome back, julianna! Glad to see your typing fingers are working. We're always serious over here in the RUBbers forum - we just like to be serious with a smile!

Hope to see you around and yes, pie is always acceptable!

Thanks, Slim! I've missed it in here. Tonight I have to put together 2 weeks-worth of emergency sub plans. Yay for me. I did get my favorite delinquent kid sentanced to my school though, so I am in a good mood. He's big, and he's a bit old (for 7th grade.. he's 16 or 17 now), and he tells the other kids to leave me alone and shut up or he will kill them (and he's serious, and they do shut up and leave me alone. Ahhhh). Anyway, everything is actually healing up nicely and I have a couple of kids in each class who are seriously nice about picking everything up for me because I think having a wreck with the police gives you some street cred.

BTW, a stupid new kid who apparently didn't pay attention when the judge told him searched in and out of the building brought his Glock to school today and I thought of this thread

[Martyshk 137]

Why? Are those the retards that're responsible for the city's homicides?

I know you previously posted about retards from suburbia pulling out and not knowing how to use their gun - then getting shot. Is that what you're referring to? Are you actually implying that a significant number of homicides in Philly are caused by suburban "wannabe gangstas" who pull out on the wrong OG?

I'm not saying it doesn't happen or hasn't happened, but I'm pretty sure that's not a significant cause of homicide in Philly - or anywhere else for that matter. You see a lot of that on TV, but not so much in real life. When it comes to reality, kids from suburbia are actually smart enough to conduct whatever business they may have downtown and then get right back out to the burbs.

Those aren't the same kids causing the homicides in Philly are they?

As an LPR (or, you've gotta be a USC by now, right?) you are just as equipped for this conversation as the rest of us. I mean, you live in America, right?

As for actual "equipment" if you don't own one, you should get one.

If you would've posted this on page 3, this thread would've been done by page 4 after a whole bunch of from everyone.

Slim,

Yes, I am a citizen by now (almost 4 years). Yes, I used to own a gun and used to carry it back when I lived in Center City. It's collecting dust right now.

The reason why I am mentioning retards (19 year olds was not a good example - I was referring to someone saying something about allowing guns from 18).

But yeah, those suburbia retards are responsible for most of the homicides committed in Philly by people officially licensed to carry a gun.

That was my point.

Philly is a very violent city. However, almost every month there's a retard getting drunk in Old City and pulling out a gun coz he's a bad-#### mo-fo gangsta. That's why I am all for bartenders carrying guns :-)

It's not as bad, but I guess my main point is: almost all of the people who get a permit to carry a gun will never commit a crime with it, however, around our area, when it happens - it is usually some young kid from ways away from the city who came down to drink with his buddies (oh yeah, don't forget that they get sh!tfaced and drive back 30 miles to their suburbia).

/rant over

P.S. Missed your part about the boonies. NO, people from there (everything west and north of Philly I just call Pennsyltucky) know how to use guns and they would never pull it out for no reason in the city. Never happened, at least. Usually it's people from Philly Metro area - richer suburban neighborhoods.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Мартышк+Мартышка

[slim 1,525]

Thanks, Slim! I've missed it in here. Tonight I have to put together 2 weeks-worth of emergency sub plans. Yay for me. I did get my favorite delinquent kid sentanced to my school though, so I am in a good mood. He's big, and he's a bit old (for 7th grade.. he's 16 or 17 now), and he tells the other kids to leave me alone and shut up or he will kill them (and he's serious, and they do shut up and leave me alone. Ahhhh). Anyway, everything is actually healing up nicely and I have a couple of kids in each class who are seriously nice about picking everything up for me because I think having a wreck with the police gives you some street cred.

BTW, a stupid new kid who apparently didn't pay attention when the judge told him searched in and out of the building brought his Glock to school today and I thought of this thread

Street cred firmly intact! Way to go Julianna!

Also, you know it's now your duty to make sure your personal security guard gets his GED right? And stays out of jail, pays child support, checks in with his PO, etc. Seriously, I think of you guys and I think of that movie the blind side with Sandra Bullock. You know you're her now, right? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9111901261.html

Slim,

Yes, I am a citizen by now (almost 4 years). Yes, I used to own a gun and used to carry it back when I lived in Center City. It's collecting dust right now.

The reason why I am mentioning retards (19 year olds was not a good example - I was referring to someone saying something about allowing guns from 18).

But yeah, those suburbia retards are responsible for most of the homicides committed in Philly by people officially licensed to carry a gun.

That was my point.

Philly is a very violent city. However, almost every month there's a retard getting drunk in Old City and pulling out a gun coz he's a bad-#### mo-fo gangsta. That's why I am all for bartenders carrying guns :-)

It's not as bad, but I guess my main point is: almost all of the people who get a permit to carry a gun will never commit a crime with it, however, around our area, when it happens - it is usually some young kid from ways away from the city who came down to drink with his buddies (oh yeah, don't forget that they get sh!tfaced and drive back 30 miles to their suburbia).

/rant over

P.S. Missed your part about the boonies. NO, people from there (everything west and north of Philly I just call Pennsyltucky) know how to use guns and they would never pull it out for no reason in the city. Never happened, at least. Usually it's people from Philly Metro area - richer suburban neighborhoods.

If your gun is just collecting dust, why not sell it here on the forum with the RUBbers discount?

You do realize, permit or no permit, being under the influence of alcohol while carrying a firearm is illegal, right?

I'm no expert on PA's gun laws (or Philly's for that matter) but I'm pretty sure anyone under 21 can't get a concealed carry permit there. That means when those suburban kids come down to get drunk and then murder someone, they're not doing it legally.

Once again, here's a case of people lopping criminals into the same group as law-abiding citizens who are licensed to carry.

[justashooter 430]

You do realize, permit or no permit, being under the influence of alcohol while carrying a firearm is illegal, right?

I'm no expert on PA's gun laws (or Philly's for that matter) but I'm pretty sure anyone under 21 can't get a concealed carry permit there. That means when those suburban kids come down to get drunk and then murder someone, they're not doing it legally.

pennsylvania law does not address the issue of alcoholic consumption while in posession of a firearm, in specific. you can carry in a bar and drink all night long if you want. if you get in trouble in a bar while drunk and carrying you may face charges such as reckless endangerment or disorderly conduct, but these are "catch-all" charges that can successfully be defended against in a county level court for $5K or so. trouble is, MDJ (majesterial district justice) courts are rubber stamps on arrest records and you will have to go thru them and be convicted before you get to appeal to a county level court.

as for those under 21 carrying: in penna a handgun may be gifted to a person under 21, and if by a parent or grandparent there is no record of transfer required. LTCF will not be issued to anyone under 21, but a person 18-20 may open carry a handgun anywhere except philthadelphia (a "city of the first class" according to the statute) or in the obvious prohibited places such as federal property and courthouses.

[SMR 368]

pennsylvania law does not address the issue of alcoholic consumption while in posession of a firearm, in specific. you can carry in a bar and drink all night long if you want. if you get in trouble in a bar while drunk and carrying you may face charges such as reckless endangerment or disorderly conduct, but these are "catch-all" charges that can successfully be defended against in a county level court for $5K or so. trouble is, MDJ (majesterial district justice) courts are rubber stamps on arrest records and you will have to go thru them and be convicted before you get to appeal to a county level court.

as for those under 21 carrying: in penna a handgun may be gifted to a person under 21, and if by a parent or grandparent there is no record of transfer required. LTCF will not be issued to anyone under 21, but a person 18-20 may open carry a handgun anywhere except philthadelphia (a "city of the first class" according to the statute) or in the obvious prohibited places such as federal property and courthouses.

I've never owned a firearm (mostly because I would probably fit into the category of idiot young guys with guns if I did, although I don't drink) but definitely support the right to do so and am very against firearm regulation. My question is, how "open" does "open carry" have to be? I mean, what if I carry a small gun in a holster that completely covers it and might be mistaken for a pocket knife or PDA? What if I carry it in a bag? What if I carry it in an ordinary holster and put on a coat that covers it. For that matter, what if I wear a shoulder holster and a coat? Maybe I just like shoulder holsters and it's cold outside.

The whole concealed weapons license seems to be a loophole to get around the second amendment. I mean, most things I carry I "conceal." I call it "pockets." On top of that, do we want to encourage people to open carry?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I've never owned a firearm (mostly because I would probably fit into the category of idiot young guys with guns if I did, although I don't drink) but definitely support the right to do so and am very against firearm regulation. My question is, how "open" does "open carry" have to be? I mean, what if I carry a small gun in a holster that completely covers it and might be mistaken for a pocket knife or PDA? What if I carry it in a bag? What if I carry it in an ordinary holster and put on a coat that covers it. For that matter, what if I wear a shoulder holster and a coat? Maybe I just like shoulder holsters and it's cold outside.

The whole concealed weapons license seems to be a loophole to get around the second amendment. I mean, most things I carry I "conceal." I call it "pockets." On top of that, do we want to encourage people to open carry?

Concealed carry is in no way designed to get around the 2nd amendment. How "open" it must be depends on the state. I lived in Kentucky for some years which is a "open carry" state and the law provides that open carry means that the handgun is clearly identifiable as a handgun and full flap holsters have been ruled to "conceal" the handgun and therefore require a concealed carry permit. The GUN must be openly carried and identifiable as a GUN. Other states may vary.

[Martyshk 137]

Once again, here's a case of people lopping criminals into the same group as law-abiding citizens who are licensed to carry.

That wasn't my intention at all. All in all, it doesn't matter. People are people and they will always do stupid sh!t. But I am all for the safer Old City streets at night in the end

Oh, and I am not selling my gun. Sooner or later, I'll move back closer to the Center City or maybe even just Philly proper, so it will be unboxed once again.

[SMR 368]

Concealed carry is in no way designed to get around the 2nd amendment. How "open" it must be depends on the state. I lived in Kentucky for some years which is a "open carry" state and the law provides that open carry means that the handgun is clearly identifiable as a handgun and full flap holsters have been ruled to "conceal" the handgun and therefore require a concealed carry permit. The GUN must be openly carried and identifiable as a GUN. Other states may vary.

Well, what exactly concealed carry is designed to do is impossible to prove. What it effectively does is make it so that a person has to get a license to "bear arms." I mean, open carry is pretty ridiculous, especially when you have to draw attention to it in order to not "conceal" it.

[slim 1,525]

pennsylvania law does not address the issue of alcoholic consumption while in posession of a firearm,

a person 18-20 may open carry a handgun anywhere except philthadelphia (a "city of the first class" according to the statute) or in the obvious prohibited places such as federal property and courthouses.

Thanks for the update, I didn't know you could carry in bars and stuff in PA. Good!

But, back on topic - a 19-year-old retard from the burbs has no LEGAL way to carry a gun while drunk in Philadelphia, right? I mean, they have to be 21 to drink (or enter a bar) and they have to be at least 21 to get a LTCF (which pre-empts the first class city rule) without which they can't even OC in Philly, right?

Also, what's up with not being able to carry when the govt. declares an emergency? What, did Ray Nagin stop by or something?

The whole concealed weapons license seems to be a loophole to get around the second amendment. I mean, most things I carry I "conceal." I call it "pockets." On top of that, do we want to encourage people to open carry?

OK.... let's jump right into this can of worms...

From a strictly legal standpoint, BEARING has been interpreted to mean holding or possessing OPENLY or IN PLAIN SIGHT so that others should know you are in possession of whatever it is you are bearing. Concealing, on the other hand, means you're making an attempt to hide the fact that you're in possession of something. Time and again, courts have ruled the 2nd Amendment doesn't protect your Right to conceal a firearm - only to BEAR it.

So, what you end up with is State and local laws which restrict concealment of firearms.

As for openly carrying and why 48 States now permit concealed carry of one form or another, it seems the people have spoken and wanted not only the Right to Bear Arms, but the "privilege" of carrying them concealed as well. This is where the major debate - from ALL sides of the issue - comes into play. There are several different camps in the "pro-gun" community and several in the "anti-gun" community too.

One of the big reasons most Americans can now get a license to conceal a weapon is because the alternate would be to openly carry everywhere. That's pretty scary for soccer moms in suburbia, plus it's not all that scary for criminals who now know who not to victimize. The intent of carrying concealed is to eliminate that public histeria while still affording access to self-protection.

Many folks say "you don't license a right, you license a privilege." They're correct. Concealed carry hasn't been upheld as a Right in many places yet.... but it probably will be one of these days. There are some notable exceptions - AK, VT, IN all come to mind - but for the most part, most States still see concealed carry as a "privilege."

Oh, and I am not selling my gun.

What are you packin?

Well, what exactly concealed carry is designed to do is impossible to prove. What it effectively does is make it so that a person has to get a license to "bear arms." I mean, open carry is pretty ridiculous, especially when you have to draw attention to it in order to not "conceal" it.

The whole concealed carry issue is largely a political debate in most places. Yes, it could be considered licensing a right, but at the same time, that would mean concealing arms is a right. That hasn't been consistently upheld.

I'm not for it, but then again, I have a CHL here in Ohio. Why did I get mine? Well, the way I see it, if everyone gets "on the list" then the list disappears. Once the majority of people get CHLs and understand firearms laws, we'll actually amend our law and won't need one anymore. If we were to just "insist" we had a Right to conceal and did so in violation of the law, we'd have no hope of changing our law - and we'd be criminals.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well, what exactly concealed carry is designed to do is impossible to prove. What it effectively does is make it so that a person has to get a license to "bear arms." I mean, open carry is pretty ridiculous, especially when you have to draw attention to it in order to not "conceal" it.

True. I am against the notion, in general, of getting government permission to carry a concealed handgun. I would hope all states would be the same as Vermont, no license or permit required. Carry what you want, where you want, when you want.

I think that gun owners have compromised on concealed carry as an acceptable way for the vast majority of the US population to have a means to carry concealed firearms. I do not necessarily fault them for that. However it is silly to think that any criminals will obtain permits or stop carrying concealed firearms. It is a sensical as thinking that banning gay marriage will eliminate homosexuals.

[Martyshk 137]

What are you packin?

Glock 39

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Glock 39

ah, the .45 GAP Interesting concept, .45 in a 9mm size package. How do you like it? I bought a Kimber Ultra CDP a couple years before the GAP came out and I am satisfied it is small enough for most of my needs. If I need something smaller I get away from the .45 concept altogether and go for a .32 ACP Colt M1903 or a S&W centennial.

All the tests I have read on that gun and cartridge seem to prove up what it advertises, good choice.

[Darnell 8,478]

I made two apricot pies last night. YUM !

[visaveteran 1]

I made two apricot pies last night. YUM !

What caliber?