Is Your Baby Racist?

[Justine+David 218]

I think it's a very interesting question too. I do believe that children see skin color even if it isn't pointed out to them. I know that I did. I have drawings from when I was very little and I always drew myself as brown. Probably because I saw most of my peers using the "flesh" colored crayon and I recognized that I wasn't quite the same color as them. I also used to refer to myself as "brown baby". I know that I was always very aware of the fact that my skin was darker than my mother's.

I agree with that. I'm from a military family, so my family has lived in many different places in the U.S. We lived in Hawai'i for 4 years at one point and my younger sister had started kindergarden at the local public school. Each class only had 1-2 Caucasian kids and after a week, she came home asking my mom if she could have black hair and dark skin like everyone else...

[HAL 9000 96]

Interesting. There have been previous studies that attitudes can be affected/shaped by television. I got a give props to Sesame Street for shaping mine. Every child should get a daily dose of Sesame Street, IMO.

I think the article raises several interesting points, including how increasing diversity actually tends to result in self-segregation. There were quite a few nasty comments about the story - people were offended by the notion that it is "abhorrent" to have "white pride", while "black pride" provides a healthy boost to self-esteem. People were also angry at the use of the term "racist" in the title - "But, but babies can't be racist, they're just noticing differences." That's the whole point of the article. People have different skin colors and we shouldn't be pretending that they don't.

I don't think that's a fair conclusion to make based on this study. How children judge others (whether primarily by character or by their appearance) also comes into play. It's not enough for a parent to embrace cultural diversity in their home if they tend to be superficial in their judgment of others, which the children will most definitely pick up on. If Dad makes an off-hand comment about a fat lady eating ice cream, that's going to leave a big impression on the children. That's the one thing that almost all of us can't shake ourselves from...that we seem innately prone to prejudice. Parents who want their children to realize MLK's dream have to go beyond just embracing cultural diversity. They need to show their children that they themselves don't make judgments about people based on appearance...which is difficult to do .

Which is not a fair conclusion to make?

I think the study was confirming that we are innately prone to prejudice, from infancy in fact. They didn't really get into it, but I wonder how a biracial baby would respond to the images shown.

Also interesting was this idea of "essentialism", where we think positively of people who share physical traits with us, e.g. the red/blue shirt experiment.

"increasing diversity actually tends to result in self-segregation" - beyond being innately prone to prejudice, I think that human rationality functions mostly through categorization. Even in school, children are taught to notice "same" and "different." It most probably is part of our survival instincts. We can, however, teach children more complex concepts beyond visual similarities and differences. There's so much more beyond our exteriors and I believe that young children can be keen to those less obvious similarities and differences.

That is likely a part of the origin of said behavior.

[Jenn! 918]

I wouldn't call self-segregation (aggregation) prejudice per se- as it connotes a socially negative meaning. Its like the facial recognition brain activation in children. It is perhaps natural to have self-aware children to self-aggregate out of a drive to associate with familiar individuals first. This is a mechanism that likely is preserved into adulthood and to me at least, does not represent racist behavior, but can be often confused with such behavior- particularly when racism is still around socially and not repudiated by individuals that are aware of it in their surrounding environment.

Without actually looking up the dictionary definition of racism, doesn't there have to be an element of believing that one race is innately superior to another? Recognizing differences and even preferring to associate oneself with others of the same race is, like you said, not racist.

That said, there certainly is a difference between children gravitating towards those with the same skin color and adults deliberately rejecting associations with other races, e.g. all-white country clubs (if those are not just urban myths).

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Now throwing a spanner into this study....I've handled more than a few caucasian babies (many times, not even sporting "traditional dress" nor glittery watch, nor glasses--all attractive to babies) aged between 4 months and 2 years (several not known to me prior)--all of which have gone to me quite calmly.

[HAL 9000 96]

I wouldn't call self-segregation (aggregation) prejudice per se- as it connotes a socially negative meaning. Its like the facial recognition brain activation in children. It is perhaps natural to have self-aware children to self-aggregate out of a drive to associate with familiar individuals first. This is a mechanism that likely is preserved into adulthood and to me at least, does not represent racist behavior, but can be often confused with such behavior- particularly when racism is still around socially and not repudiated by individuals that are aware of it in their surrounding environment.

Without actually looking up the dictionary definition of racism, doesn't there have to be an element of believing that one race is innately superior to another? Recognizing differences and even preferring to associate oneself with others of the same race is, like you said, not racist.

That said, there certainly is a difference between children gravitating towards those with the same skin color and adults deliberately rejecting associations with other races, e.g. all-white country clubs (if those are not just urban myths).

Yep, pretty much. And therein is the crux of the issue. Some that ARE definitely racist will try to employ the value-neutral perspective as a way of justifying their idiotic beliefs.

Children, unless they're already tainted by these idiotic social constructs (racism), will not make value-level judgements as to what skin color they associate with. This is particularly so as they begin to socialize in a diverse racial setting that (not surprisingly) most racists would contradict by claiming that such diversity would go against the natural order of things and create more social ills in exposing children to multiracial environments. They do this because they know that once exposed to children of other races, for the most part, the children begin to overcome this innate behavior of self-aggregation and make the inclusion of a racist mode of behaving that much harder. Although that does not obligate the child to fully associate with any particular color of skin.

[Danno 1,228]

I wouldn't call self-segregation (aggregation) prejudice per se- as it connotes a socially negative meaning. Its like the facial recognition brain activation in children. It is perhaps natural to have self-aware children to self-aggregate out of a drive to associate with familiar individuals first. This is a mechanism that likely is preserved into adulthood and to me at least, does not represent racist behavior, but can be often confused with such behavior- particularly when racism is still around socially and not repudiated by individuals that are aware of it in their surrounding environment.

Without actually looking up the dictionary definition of racism, doesn't there have to be an element of believing that one race is innately superior to another? Recognizing differences and even preferring to associate oneself with others of the same race is, like you said, not racist.

That said, there certainly is a difference between children gravitating towards those with the same skin color and adults deliberately rejecting associations with other races, e.g. all-white country clubs (if those are not just urban myths).

Yep, pretty much. And therein is the crux of the issue. Some that ARE definitely racist will try to employ the value-neutral perspective as a way of justifying their idiotic beliefs.

Children, unless they're already tainted by these idiotic social constructs (racism), will not make value-level judgements as to what skin color they associate with. This is particularly so as they begin to socialize in a diverse racial setting that (not surprisingly) most racists would contradict by claiming that such diversity would go against the natural order of things and create more social ills in exposing children to multiracial environments. They do this because they know that once exposed to children of other races, for the most part, the children begin to overcome this innate behavior of self-aggregation and make the inclusion of a racist mode of behaving that much harder. Although that does not obligate the child to fully associate with any particular color of skin.

HAL did you did read this part?

<<<The unfortunate twist of diverse schools is that they don't necessarily lead to more cross-race relationships. Often it's the opposite. Duke University's James Moody—an expert on how adolescents form and maintain social networks—analyzed data on more than 90,000 teenagers at 112 different schools from every region of the country. The students had been asked to name their five best male friends and their five best female friends. Moody matched the ethnicity of the student with the race of each named friend, then compared the number of each student's cross-racial friendships with the school's overall diversity.

Moody found that the more diverse the school, the more the kids self-segregate by race and ethnicity within the school, and thus the likelihood that any two kids of different races have a friendship goes down.

Moody included statistical controls for activities, sports, academic tracking, and other school-structural conditions that tend to desegregate (or segregate) students within the school. The rule still holds true: more diversity translates into more division among students. Those increased opportunities to interact are also, effectively, increased opportunities to reject each other. And that is what's happening.

As a result, junior-high and high-school children in diverse schools experience two completely contrasting social cues on a daily basis. The first cue is inspiring—that many students have a friend of another race. The second cue is tragic—that far more kids just like to hang with their own. It's this second dynamic that becomes more and more visible as overall school diversity goes up. As a child circulates through school, she sees more groups that her race disqualifies her from, more lunchroom tables she can't sit at, and more implicit lines that are taboo to cross. This is unmissable even if she, personally, has friends of other races. "Even in multiracial schools, once young people leave the classroom, very little interracial discussion takes place because a desire to associate with one's own ethnic group often discourages interaction between groups," wrote Brendesha Tynes of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

>>

[HAL 9000 96]

I guess Danno didn't read my post very carefully. Hint: Particularly this sentence:

Children, unless they're already tainted by these idiotic social constructs (racism), will not make value-level judgements as to what skin color they associate with.

I do not find it surprising that Danno, aka VJ's Keith Bardwell... didn't 1) read carefully and 2) seems to softly promote racial segregation as a means to have a civil modern society.

[chri'stina 190]

Interesting. There have been previous studies that attitudes can be affected/shaped by television. I got a give props to Sesame Street for shaping mine. Every child should get a daily dose of Sesame Street, IMO.

I think the article raises several interesting points, including how increasing diversity actually tends to result in self-segregation. There were quite a few nasty comments about the story - people were offended by the notion that it is "abhorrent" to have "white pride", while "black pride" provides a healthy boost to self-esteem. People were also angry at the use of the term "racist" in the title - "But, but babies can't be racist, they're just noticing differences." That's the whole point of the article. People have different skin colors and we shouldn't be pretending that they don't.

I don't think that's a fair conclusion to make based on this study. How children judge others (whether primarily by character or by their appearance) also comes into play. It's not enough for a parent to embrace cultural diversity in their home if they tend to be superficial in their judgment of others, which the children will most definitely pick up on. If Dad makes an off-hand comment about a fat lady eating ice cream, that's going to leave a big impression on the children. That's the one thing that almost all of us can't shake ourselves from...that we seem innately prone to prejudice. Parents who want their children to realize MLK's dream have to go beyond just embracing cultural diversity. They need to show their children that they themselves don't make judgments about people based on appearance...which is difficult to do .

Difficult, yeah, but possible. Growing up, my parents never discussed anyone as the fat one, the ugly one etc or made rude comments about any such ppl like that and did not want us to talk that way either. Of course it's not going to be perfectly accomplished but at least trying hard is good. I do/will do the same with Kavi. Sorry I am only commenting on one small part of this thread. I am too tired to thoroughly read it all.

Oh and actually to add one more thing, my dad and his sister grew up not feeling the way their parents did about race. My grandparents were openly racist up until the late 70s I'd say, when they really changed a lot on many issues. My dad and his sister grew up thinking that was stupid and were not racist and had friends of various ethnicities. So sometimes kids just will not do what the parents do. The ironic part about my grandparents racism was that even in their own marriage, my grandmother's parents refused to attend because she was marrying an Italian while they were anglo saxons.

Now throwing a spanner into this study....I've handled more than a few caucasian babies (many times, not even sporting "traditional dress" nor glittery watch, nor glasses--all attractive to babies) aged between 4 months and 2 years (several not known to me prior)--all of which have gone to me quite calmly.

A lot of kids have taken to Suj just fine as well, who were caucasian(I just want to say whities haha).

Edited December 8, 2009 by chri'stina

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I don't think that's a fair conclusion to make based on this study. How children judge others (whether primarily by character or by their appearance) also comes into play. It's not enough for a parent to embrace cultural diversity in their home if they tend to be superficial in their judgment of others, which the children will most definitely pick up on. If Dad makes an off-hand comment about a fat lady eating ice cream, that's going to leave a big impression on the children. That's the one thing that almost all of us can't shake ourselves from...that we seem innately prone to prejudice. Parents who want their children to realize MLK's dream have to go beyond just embracing cultural diversity. They need to show their children that they themselves don't make judgments about people based on appearance...which is difficult to do .

Difficult, yeah, but possible. Growing up, my parents never discussed anyone as the fat one, the ugly one etc or made rude comments about any such ppl like that and did not want us to talk that way either. Of course it's not going to be perfectly accomplished but at least trying hard is good. I do/will do the same with Kavi. Sorry I am only commenting on one small part of this thread. I am too tired to thoroughly read it all.

I don't remember my parents doing it either, nor did I ever see my dad gawking at other women, but unfortunately, there are parents that do model that kind of behavior, sometimes unaware that they are setting a bad example.

[chri'stina 190]

I don't think that's a fair conclusion to make based on this study. How children judge others (whether primarily by character or by their appearance) also comes into play. It's not enough for a parent to embrace cultural diversity in their home if they tend to be superficial in their judgment of others, which the children will most definitely pick up on. If Dad makes an off-hand comment about a fat lady eating ice cream, that's going to leave a big impression on the children. That's the one thing that almost all of us can't shake ourselves from...that we seem innately prone to prejudice. Parents who want their children to realize MLK's dream have to go beyond just embracing cultural diversity. They need to show their children that they themselves don't make judgments about people based on appearance...which is difficult to do .

Difficult, yeah, but possible. Growing up, my parents never discussed anyone as the fat one, the ugly one etc or made rude comments about any such ppl like that and did not want us to talk that way either. Of course it's not going to be perfectly accomplished but at least trying hard is good. I do/will do the same with Kavi. Sorry I am only commenting on one small part of this thread. I am too tired to thoroughly read it all.

I don't remember my parents doing it either, nor did I ever see my dad gawking at other women, but unfortunately, there are parents that do model that kind of behavior, sometimes unaware that they are setting a bad example.

Yeah. And then it even involves the kids at times too. A friend of mine growing up, her dad always called her chubby but she actually wasn't. She has been in a constant state of strife about her looks and her weight even since we were kids, and she never even was chubby or got chubby. But in her mind she always has been. I know that's actually a different topic. But I hate when parents do that #######.

[GabiandVi 34]

Now throwing a spanner into this study....I've handled more than a few caucasian babies (many times, not even sporting "traditional dress" nor glittery watch, nor glasses--all attractive to babies) aged between 4 months and 2 years (several not known to me prior)--all of which have gone to me quite calmly.

My daughter went and, frighteningly, still goes to ANYBODY and EVERYBODY. In China, while I was choosing from the shelves at the grocery store, strangers would take her from the cart and be around the corner to show her to their friends before I could stop them. My husband's countrymates would carry her off and she would smile and coo. My White friends would do the same. The students, from all over the world, many shades of brown, would handle her and she never let out a peep. She likes people and she doesn't care what color they are, but, apparantly, she sees the differences.

Interestingly, the first time I went to Africa, I reduced more than one baby to tears on sight, including my three-year-old niece. And I'm not especially White.

[slim 1,525]

I'm so glad we won't have to worry about stuff like this in 20 years.

[SMR 368]

There are tons of characteristics that children could use to divide people, many of them physical. How many people have to have a discussion with their children about hair color or eye color? Probably most. But they don't remember it because it was two seconds long and the child believed without argument that it didn't matter. I actually remember playing with dolls when I was young and the dolls had different colors of hair. But Mom said it didn't matter and no one else said it did.

Children notice the differences but they only become racist when they are told it matters. Problem is, in society today, someone will always tell you it matters. A lot of people will tell you it doesn't matter but that there is racism. That implicitly admits that it matters. The author's child recognized the difference but didn't think it was significant until Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. Day when undoubtedly racism was explained.

[Danno 1,228]

I guess Danno didn't read my post very carefully. Hint: Particularly this sentence:

Children, unless they're already tainted by these idiotic social constructs (racism), will not make value-level judgements as to what skin color they associate with.

I do not find it surprising that Danno, aka VJ's Keith Bardwell... didn't 1) read carefully and 2) seems to softly promote racial segregation as a means to have a civil modern society.

Oh I did read your words very well, I just found it hard to believe you actually think all the children in america.. of all colors are "tainted" by their parents in 2009.

Thats laughable HAL as was your post.

I don't know who Keith Bardwell is but I will judge your post by your words and it's a little lame to bring up someone else to try to color me with.

I believe America is a free country and people can segregate or not according to the freedom of movement we ALL have.

Because I pointed out this study (and others) show kids gravitate toward same-race groupings....... somehow I am "promoting" segregation.

I have lived my who life in multi-cultural environments and I don't mean sitting next to people on a bus (Lib definition).

I relocated too and now live in an area of the country which has more minorities than any other.

But I will admit I do love to jerk the "race-chain" here at VJ because you and a few others are so predictable.

NOw explain your rational on how all the parents.. of all colors are "tainting" their children?

[HAL 9000 96]

Another point for Dannologic. Once again, he fails to comprehend things that are written and even reposted for his benefit. Perhaps in reposting it again he'll 'get it'??

Children, unless they're already tainted by these idiotic social constructs (racism), will not make value-level judgements as to what skin color they associate with.

On top of being purposefully obtuse, he also shows signs of resisting such a race-neutral nation. I suspect that Danno is a racist and living near so many 'minorities' makes him very unhappy.