New AOS subforum needed: "Civil Surgeons & I-693 Forms"

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I would consider a database application like the consulate information page where people can add/edit doctors and services offered as well as feedback. I need to think over any ramifications but if you think it would be useful enough for me to spend time making then let me know!!

[SunDrop 59]

I would consider a database application like the consulate information page where people can add/edit doctors and services offered as well as feedback. I need to think over any ramifications but if you think it would be useful enough for me to spend time making then let me know!!

Ideal solution, and absolutely would be helpful. Having read through the AOS thread, it's a question that comes up many times.

How would it be searchable?

[TBoneTX 45,289]

Any better mousetrap would be a good thing.

One ramification might be the potential for libel, should someone choose to write something negative about a particular CS. One solution might be to limit entries to click-buttons (as in the VJ Polls), and short-answer fillers such as typing in the price for the services that were received. Thoughts?

[Nik+Heather 121]

Any better mousetrap would be a good thing.

One ramification might be the potential for libel, should someone choose to write something negative about a particular CS. One solution might be to limit entries to click-buttons (as in the VJ Polls), and short-answer fillers such as typing in the price for the services that were received. Thoughts?

Topics probably don't have that sort of issue - since it's individuals sharing individual experience. Once you start making it look VJ approved, then you might run into that problem.

Has anyone considered a Wiki page for this? It's already got the multiple authors built in, and already hosted by VJ, etc. It could be kept clean and updated. My main concern is about any solution we get to is how easy it is to FIND in the first place.

Also...since I didn't want the listing to get too off topic (as that was pointed out as a "CON"):

My .02 on this:

There are 50 states, several main cities and towns in each and several CSes in each. There is simply no way you can create a thread that adequately captures all of them and it's far from easily searchable.

A spreadsheet/database can have multiple 'editors/ owners', as can the email address. It keeps VJ clean of repeating the same data over and over and over again. It also makes it easier to amend updated information, without having out of date info in a thread. Several other suggestions of ways of capturing the info were made that needed to be discussed with Ewok, including have a state by state CS page, like the embassy info, capturing some of the info on the timeline, etc.

I had the idea to create a database , was going about setting it up in a manner that was courteous to the site owner and you grabbed it, ran with it and then just dismissed the entire process out of hand because you think your way is the best, apparently. No discussion, no PMs, bob's your uncle.

*washes her hands of it* Life is too short and too complicated for this kind of carry-on. A simple PM would have been polite. Shame, because I was looking forward to working with people to create something that was obviously going to be an indispensable resource to VJers. So enjoy....

I have not stood in your way of creating your spreadsheet. Every doctor I've added to the list I have ALSO emailed to you. I haven't seen any such reciprocation from you. In fact, you go so far as to suggest that people NOT contribute to the thread in favor of your efforts. I have suggested that until the "best" solution is found that we share information for our two different approaches.

Right now, someone in Utah, California, Arizona, Colorado, Illinois...and others - they can all go to my thread TODAY and get some information - Maybe the thread is just a stepping stone until this spreadsheet/VJ portal/Wiki page is created. Also, as I have said, different people might have different preferences for how they get their information. I tried a search today - Civil Surgeon Arizona - the same one I tried when looking for my own search, and found a thread which looked promising - CSs who don't rip you off - a listing. How useful!

Anyway, I don't see how my thread is detrimental to any plans for the future. I don't understand the mentality that these solutions are mutually exclusive of one another. Especially as I have emailed that email address with each one that's listed on there. I will continue to do so. I do completely agree that once the thread and the spreadsheet are actually found, the spreadsheet would be easier to search. However, it is still my contention that for the average VJ member, the thread will be much easier to find - even more so if it is pinned. No matter how well presented, it can't be useful if it can't be found.

I'm sorry that you feel as though it is not worth discussing if others have different opinions about the best way to go about it.

[TracyTN 237]

I also see the inherent problem with a 'pinned' thread - people add useless information to it or off topic questions - hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Why not do the best of both - have a wiki or a spreadsheet that can be accessed via a link. Then pin a topic with that link in it and lock the thread. ETA I suppose the thread should also have information in it as to how to get the information updated. Either an email address or member to PM (if it's a spreadsheet). I guess if it's a Wiki, anyone can add to that.

Edited December 7, 2009 by TracyTN

[Rhiannercakes 14]

I would consider a database application like the consulate information page where people can add/edit doctors and services offered as well as feedback. I need to think over any ramifications but if you think it would be useful enough for me to spend time making then let me know!!

I like this idea!

Never hurts to have too much info, in my opinion... especially with Dr. Arnold retiring.

[Nik+Heather 121]

I also see the inherent problem with a 'pinned' thread - people add useless information to it or off topic questions - hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Why not do the best of both - have a wiki or a spreadsheet that can be accessed via a link. Then pin a topic with that link in it and lock the thread. ETA I suppose the thread should also have information in it as to how to get the information updated. Either an email address or member to PM (if it's a spreadsheet). I guess if it's a Wiki, anyone can add to that.

I'd agree with the locked thread, except I'd bet that most members wouldn't go through the steps to learn how to add to the Wiki list, but would probably feel very comfortable with posting a reply. Also, it has the added advantage that new information is immediately available until it gets added to the Wiki.

I am liking this Wiki idea more and more, but I'll hold off on Wiki vs. embassy-like data base until Ewok decides if he'll do something like that. Having some kind of form that people would fill out with the basic details and then pull down menus to look for the results by state sounds awesome.

[SunDrop 59]

I'm sorry that you feel as though it is not worth discussing if others have different opinions about the best way to go about it.

Not sure where you got this impression from. There's a difference between discussion, however, and 'I think my way is the best way, so I'm just going to go for it.'

As for getting the spreadsheet up and running, and linking to it, I think doubling up on effort is a total waste of time. You're already posting all the information in your thread, so until Captain Ewok makes a decision about how best to proceed with this idea of developing a database in whatever format it takes, I'm not going to laboriously transfer data into a resource that will potentially become defunct once this decision is reached.

I'm also baffled by the general school of thought of needing to spoon-feed members. We're perfectly happy to ask people to fill in their timelines and direct them regularly to the guides through links, so why anyone can't do the same when the question is raised of needing a CS to transcribe vaccination records and/or perform reasonably priced medicals. There is such a wealth of information on VJ but sadly so much of it is regurgitated daily because people don't bother reading the guides. By encouraging people to explore beyond the forums by linking to a contained, non-thread based resource, we are helping them to help themselves. I suppose it's not dissimilar to 'give a man a fish...'

Tracy, agreed. Pretty much what I said Although from the sounds of things, people will be able to edit/ add to the information. At least, if it's done the same way the embassy reviews are. Had fun (the geek in me! lol) flicking between 'previous reviews' to see how much the prices had changed over the past couple years.

[Nik+Heather 121]

If we are mining for information, why wouldn't we make it as easy as possible for people to share it? I can certainly see a large number of people thinking "I have to apply for access to the Wiki, learn how to edit the wiki (EEEK!) and then put all my info in? Forget that! Let them call all the CSs just like I did" Maybe it is spoon feeding, but obviously not every member is as engaged as the people who are participating here. I'd wager we are a small minority. We need to work for maximum data collection.

Anyway, SunDrop, I see a huge misunderstanding here. My intention was not to compete with you, but rather to be a second prong in the attack - and to widen our net. That's why I included your quote with the email address at the start, and passed along all of my "pickings". I think we both charged ahead with what we each thought was best - with good intentions, and the goal of helping people. I wish that it hadn't turned so....acrimonious. We have the same desire: To get the information about reasonable Civil Surgeons out to where people filing for AOS can find it. Surely we would both want to work together?

Anyhow, I will continue with the current thread for two reasons:

1. It may help someone who is filing before this other solution comes in

2. We'll have lots of stuff to put into our database once it gets online!

[rebeccajo 14]

If we are mining for information, why wouldn't we make it as easy as possible for people to share it? I can certainly see a large number of people thinking "I have to apply for access to the Wiki, learn how to edit the wiki (EEEK!) and then put all my info in? Forget that! Let them call all the CSs just like I did" Maybe it is spoon feeding, but obviously not every member is as engaged as the people who are participating here. I'd wager we are a small minority. We need to work for ma

I don't believe Ewok is talking about using the Wiki feature. I understood him to say he was agreeable to creating a database similar to the one we have now for consulate reviews - linkie located under the picture of the third happy couple.

Any better mousetrap would be a good thing.

One ramification might be the potential for libel, should someone choose to write something negative about a particular CS. One solution might be to limit entries to click-buttons (as in the VJ Polls), and short-answer fillers such as typing in the price for the services that were received. Thoughts?

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

[Nik+Heather 121]

If we are mining for information, why wouldn't we make it as easy as possible for people to share it? I can certainly see a large number of people thinking "I have to apply for access to the Wiki, learn how to edit the wiki (EEEK!) and then put all my info in? Forget that! Let them call all the CSs just like I did" Maybe it is spoon feeding, but obviously not every member is as engaged as the people who are participating here. I'd wager we are a small minority. We need to work for ma

I don't believe Ewok is talking about using the Wiki feature. I understood him to say he was agreeable to creating a database similar to the one we have now for consulate reviews - linkie located under the picture of the third happy couple.

Any better mousetrap would be a good thing.

One ramification might be the potential for libel, should someone choose to write something negative about a particular CS. One solution might be to limit entries to click-buttons (as in the VJ Polls), and short-answer fillers such as typing in the price for the services that were received. Thoughts?

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

I think that's my favorite idea - the POE/Embassy/CS reviews.

I'm still worried about the people who are trying to file in the meantime. (like us!)

[rebeccajo 14]

If we are mining for information, why wouldn't we make it as easy as possible for people to share it? I can certainly see a large number of people thinking "I have to apply for access to the Wiki, learn how to edit the wiki (EEEK!) and then put all my info in? Forget that! Let them call all the CSs just like I did" Maybe it is spoon feeding, but obviously not every member is as engaged as the people who are participating here. I'd wager we are a small minority. We need to work for ma

I don't believe Ewok is talking about using the Wiki feature. I understood him to say he was agreeable to creating a database similar to the one we have now for consulate reviews - linkie located under the picture of the third happy couple.

Any better mousetrap would be a good thing.

One ramification might be the potential for libel, should someone choose to write something negative about a particular CS. One solution might be to limit entries to click-buttons (as in the VJ Polls), and short-answer fillers such as typing in the price for the services that were received. Thoughts?

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

I think that's my favorite idea - the POE/Embassy/CS reviews.

I'm still worried about the people who are trying to file in the meantime. (like us!)

Well - they'll figure it out and so will you, you know?

It'll sort itself out.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

If we are mining for information, why wouldn't we make it as easy as possible for people to share it? I can certainly see a large number of people thinking "I have to apply for access to the Wiki, learn how to edit the wiki (EEEK!) and then put all my info in? Forget that! Let them call all the CSs just like I did" Maybe it is spoon feeding, but obviously not every member is as engaged as the people who are participating here. I'd wager we are a small minority. We need to work for ma

I don't believe Ewok is talking about using the Wiki feature. I understood him to say he was agreeable to creating a database similar to the one we have now for consulate reviews - linkie located under the picture of the third happy couple.

Any better mousetrap would be a good thing.

One ramification might be the potential for libel, should someone choose to write something negative about a particular CS. One solution might be to limit entries to click-buttons (as in the VJ Polls), and short-answer fillers such as typing in the price for the services that were received. Thoughts?

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

I am open to making the database and the information format as a more factual feedback system. There would not be places for "reviews" so to speak but instead similar information such as services offered, prices, turn around time, etc.. This would be a lot like the embassy info database we have now but improved. A link would be there for doctors to write in (to VJ) to enter "official" information or members to enter information (info would be noted as member supplied or supplied by the office itself). All info would be dated as to the last update time.

[TBoneTX 45,289]

I am open to making the database and the information format as a more factual feedback system. [...]

Sounds good, si man. If it is desirable or even necessary to include a "rating" scale from 0 to 5, please take steps to ensure that the civil surgeons' scores aren't unnaturally skewed downward if some raters fail to click a 0-to-5 choice. Doctors can be supersensitive to stuff like this, si man!

Maybe an alternative is to avoid any 0-to-5 and instead have a "extremely satisfied"-to-"completely dissatisfied" choice of buttons.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I think most people are looking for this information:

1. Price for vac. form (Figure only)

2. Price for full medical (figure only)

3. Did they require a full medical in order to transfer vaccinations to form (Yes/No)

4. Wait time for an appointment (Figure Only)

5. Wait time for completed package (Figure Only)

6. Does the CS stock (and inject) vaccines on the DOS list. (Yes/No)

All of the above is pretty factual limiting personal opinions.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Sousuke