Is it ok to pay a random person to sign you the I-864?

[dirtyweebesom 8]

I call troll

Hmmmm. I don't know. Could be, but could also be the truth.

[christeen 966]

Primary cars cannot be counted... If the $$$ is in the US then yes, it can be counted towards the necessary assets to make up for shortfalls... For example if you made 13k and therefore were short 6k to make the 125% then you would need the amount of the shortfall (in this example 6k) x 3 years or your income plus 18k.

[adelvalle 0]

Primary cars cannot be counted... If the $$$ is in the US then yes, it can be counted towards the necessary assets to make up for shortfalls... For example if you made 13k and therefore were short 6k to make the 125% then you would need the amount of the shortfall (in this example 6k) x 3 years or your income plus 18k.

yeah... that seems to be the problem. I was reading on the form that if you fall short you need to multiply by 3. Theres no way we can come up with that much money in assets. Cuz she has 5k reported on tax return, so we need 12k more but times 3 that is 36k in assets that we need. We dont have that much.

Thanks for the posts. Some people have been saying troll or i dont know what that means, but the honest replies I really appreciate it.

[Nik+Heather 121]

The intending immigrant's income only counts if that income will continue from the same source after AOS. As the OP said that they had to quit their job due to their other EAD expiring, they do not meet the criteria for self sponsorship. The lawyer they asked is correct.

[lucyrich 20]

They are only financially responsible if you start living on welfare and use other gov. sponsored "amenities."

That's not right. They're legally responsible for providing support for you at 125% of the poverty guidelines even if you're not drawing any benefits from the government. Read the I-864, where it says What Does Signing the Form I-864 Require Me to do? If an intending immigrant becomes a permanent resident in the United States based on a Form I-864 that you have signed, then, until your obligations under the Form I-864 terminate, you must provide the intending immigrant any support necessary to maintain him or her at an income that is at least 125 percent of the Federal Poverty Guidelines for his or her household size.

In fact, the only actual enforcement of the affidavit of support which I've heard of was when the alien was not obtaining government benefits, but just directly sued the sponsor to collect support (that doesn't mean it's the only possible enforcement, of course, just the only scenario I've heard of).

financially bound to me for the rest of my life or until I leave the country (or become a US citizen).

This isn't correct. They are liable to be sued by the Government for reimbursement if you benefit from any federal assistance, for a period of 10 years (or 40 tax periods as a couple, so 5 years if you are both working throughout) OR you qualify to naturalise, and do so, after 3 years from the issue date of your first GC having been continuously married to the same USC during that time.

That's almost right, but not quite. There is no ten year expiration date. There is a "40 quarters of social security credits" provision, but you only earn social security credits while you're working and earning over the minimum required by social security guidelines. But while the alien is working, it's unlikely that the sponsor would incur any liability anyway. The scary situation for the sponsor is if the immigrant STOPS working, due to disability, unemployability, or simple sloth. If the alien stops working, then the sponsor must provide support at 125% of the poverty guidelines until one of the terminating conditions happens. The terminating conditions are: 1. Death of the sponsor, 2. Death of the immigrant, 3. Immigrant's earning 40 quarters of work credits, 4. Immigrant leaving the US permanently, 5. Immigrant becoming a US Citizen.

Note that, barring suicide or murder, none of the terminating conditions are under the sponsor's control, so this really could be a lifetime obligation.

For reference on both issues, see the following:

http://www.venzonlawfirm.com/Assets/Catego...nals_Beware.pdf

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

[SunDrop 59]

They are only financially responsible if you start living on welfare and use other gov. sponsored "amenities."

That's not right. They're legally responsible for providing support for you at 125% of the poverty guidelines even if you're not drawing any benefits from the government. Read the I-864, where it says What Does Signing the Form I-864 Require Me to do? If an intending immigrant becomes a permanent resident in the United States based on a Form I-864 that you have signed, then, until your obligations under the Form I-864 terminate, you must provide the intending immigrant any support necessary to maintain him or her at an income that is at least 125 percent of the Federal Poverty Guidelines for his or her household size.

In fact, the only actual enforcement of the affidavit of support which I've heard of was when the alien was not obtaining government benefits, but just directly sued the sponsor to collect support (that doesn't mean it's the only possible enforcement, of course, just the only scenario I've heard of).

financially bound to me for the rest of my life or until I leave the country (or become a US citizen).

This isn't correct. They are liable to be sued by the Government for reimbursement if you benefit from any federal assistance, for a period of 10 years (or 40 tax periods as a couple, so 5 years if you are both working throughout) OR you qualify to naturalise, and do so, after 3 years from the issue date of your first GC having been continuously married to the same USC during that time.

That's almost right, but not quite. There is no ten year expiration date. There is a "40 quarters of social security credits" provision, but you only earn social security credits while you're working and earning over the minimum required by social security guidelines. But while the alien is working, it's unlikely that the sponsor would incur any liability anyway. The scary situation for the sponsor is if the immigrant STOPS working, due to disability, unemployability, or simple sloth. If the alien stops working, then the sponsor must provide support at 125% of the poverty guidelines until one of the terminating conditions happens. The terminating conditions are: 1. Death of the sponsor, 2. Death of the immigrant, 3. Immigrant's earning 40 quarters of work credits, 4. Immigrant leaving the US permanently, 5. Immigrant becoming a US Citizen.

Note that, barring suicide or murder, none of the terminating conditions are under the sponsor's control, so this really could be a lifetime obligation.

For reference on both issues, see the following:

http://www.venzonlawfirm.com/Assets/Catego...nals_Beware.pdf

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0110-wheeler.shtm

Wow, so if you're the beneficiary and get to the US only to discover that your sponsoring petitioner is a crock and only wanted a live-maid with benefits, you could sue them AND divorce them? Awesome. Not that I plan on either divorcing my eventual husband or suing my sponsor, but talk about eeking out a just revenge!

Equally, it sheds new light on scammed petitioners trying to find out how they can 'get their exes out of the country'...

Edited December 3, 2009 by SunDrop

[adelvalle 0]

So... I found someone willing to do it. A friend of a friend of a friend...hehehe so I probably will be a January filer. So from then on the wait is how long until I get a I-155 form? I 've been looking at other members timelines and it seems like 3 months. I can't wait to go for my Ph.D. I've already been given the ok by the university but I need to show them that I-155, so hopefully will be less than 6 months that would be a big deadline (june).

Thanks everyone for their replies.

[justashooter 430]

if true a sick and twisted perversion of process indicating the caliber of GC applicants coming across the border these days.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Dude . . .

I'll bet you a shiny new Dollar bill that if the US offered a Green Card in return for the donation of a kidney for a USC in need, we'd have long lines of people ready to sign up.

Call it perversion, call it desperation, but it is what it is. People are willing to resort to extraordinary measures in order to move to the Land of Milk and Honey.

The US Government could actually take advantage of that by offering Green Cards to anybody willing to pay a certain amount of money for it. Whether that's $10K or $20K or $50K I don't know. But if 1 million people pay $25K each, that's not only enough money to fund the Afghan war for another year but also a smart way to admit people who are actually doing something for the US economy, as people who spent $25K on a Green Card will very unlikely be a burden to Uncle Sam. Au contraire, mon ami, those are the people who make things happen.

Unfair? You be the judge . . .

[dirtyweebesom 8]

if true a sick and twisted perversion of process indicating the caliber of GC applicants coming across the border these days.

Oh, come on...There are zillions of people in this guy's predicament. This guy just admitted it.

My in-laws acted as joint sponsor along with my husband but there's no way in a million years I'd ever take any of their money if I fell on hard times. Well, I'm sure they'd help my husband and I out, but I would never ask or expect them to support me financially. In other words, then, their filling out the I-864 is a mere formality, pretty much like this guy's "friend of a friend" situation is.

Why do so many people on here have to have such a "holier-than-thou" attitude?! I'm always suspicious of people who trumpet how they never break any rules. Reminds me of Larry Craig...one minute he's preaching "family values"; the next he's soliciting gay sex in the men's bathroom!

[FortLaudy 10]

I definetely agree Dirtyweebesom... it's unlikely, but what would any of you do if your USC spouse all of a sudden, right before the interview loses their job?? just a question to consider... thinking about this post though and then coming across this link, just thought I would share it:

"NOTE: When there are compelling or forceful ties between the applicant

and the sponsor, such as a close family relationship or friendship of long

standing, you may favorably consider the affidavit. On the other hand,

an affidavit submitted by a casual friend or distant relative who has little

or no personal knowledge of the applicant has more limited value. If the

sponsor is not a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident (LPR), the

likelihood of the sponsor's support of an immigrant visa (IV) applicant

until the applicant can become self-supporting is a particularly important

consideration."

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86988.pdf

Page 16

[FortLaudy 10]

Also:

"9 FAM 40.41 N5.2 Defining "Sponsor"

(CT:VISA-1126; 12-03-2008)

a. To qualify as a sponsor, an individual must be a natural person (not a

corporation or other business entity) who:

(1) Is a citizen, national, or lawful permanent resident (LPR) of the

United States (including conditional residents);

(2) Is at least 18 years of age;

(3) Filed the petition which forms the basis for the visa application (or

has a substantial interest in the entity which filed the petition); and

(4) Is domiciled in any of the 50 States of the United States, the

District of Columbia, or any territory or possession of the United

States. (See 9 FAM 40.41 N6.)

b. If the relative petitioner does not meet the qualifying criteria to be a

sponsor (for example, by being under 18 years of age or not domiciled in

the United States), the visa applicant must be found ineligible for a visa

under INA 212(a)(4) until such circumstance no longer exists."

So the OP is well within his rights, anyone who is willing and meet the above criteria may be a sponsor (at their own risk of course!)

[Minya's wife 25]

if true a sick and twisted perversion of process indicating the caliber of GC applicants coming across the border these days.

Oh, come on...There are zillions of people in this guy's predicament. This guy just admitted it.

My in-laws acted as joint sponsor along with my husband but there's no way in a million years I'd ever take any of their money if I fell on hard times. Well, I'm sure they'd help my husband and I out, but I would never ask or expect them to support me financially. In other words, then, their filling out the I-864 is a mere formality, pretty much like this guy's "friend of a friend" situation is.

Why do so many people on here have to have such a "holier-than-thou" attitude?! I'm always suspicious of people who trumpet how they never break any rules. Reminds me of Larry Craig...one minute he's preaching "family values"; the next he's soliciting gay sex in the men's bathroom!

The issue is that by having signed the I-864, it is not you who would take your in-laws' money...it is the government. The I-864 is a contract the sponsoring (or joint-sponsor) signs with the government allowing themselves to be held liable in the case that the immigrant avails themselves to means-tested government benefits (like food-stamps).

To answer the OP's initial question. It is ILLEGAL to pay some 'burger-flipper' to provide joint-sponsorship for an AOS application. The process is more involved than just simply signing said form. Income tax return documentation for at least the past two years is required to be sent in with the form. Advising someone to 'go ahead and try it' is skirting VJ's Terms of Service.....and not kosher.

[sachinky 465]

Why waste your money? I'm guessing it won't be a small fee that will convince said stranger to open up their entire financial history and tax documentation to you. It will have to be a substantial payment that will convince someone to be held liable by the U.S. government for another completely random stranger, the intending immigrant.

It's not as easy as it sounds. It's not just about signing a few forms. A lot of people have trouble finding sponsors because most people are unwilling/hesitant to take on the responsibility.

And has been mentioned above already -- the (joint) sponsor is assumed to have an interest/solid ties through family or friends to the petitioner or beneficiary.

Just sounds like a bad idea all round. IMO, don't do it.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I call troll

Joined in November though... so either troll, or someone who has not bothered to