Stop the Escalation

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

[HAL 9000 96]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

As well as me. What would you have suggested Charles?

[nowhereman 1]

You either pay for things you break or at the least... fix them.

So I would assume that the experts and Generals feel it is a good strategy to announce a 30,000 troop increase in Afghanistan, then tell the enemy that they'll be gone by 2011 "if conditions on the ground warrant it" ---catch my drift Mr. Terrorist man? Hint hint? Just stop attacking until the end of that timeframe, and we'll be gone and you can go back to what you were doing before. If you're real good, we can get out alltogether and hand over the country to you! How's that!

So you preferred the Bush approach... write a blank check to the Afghan & Iraq governments, with no defined end state or benchmarks for success? All military operations should have a "commander's intent" (tactical level) or a strategic end state... an open ended, undefined end state isn't an end state at all. Moreover the statement "if conditions on the ground warrant it" is key; 2011 is a goal but not set in stone. Finally I haven't seen details of President Obama's plan but I imagine it will include a sizable force (maybe a division) that is nearby & ready to respond quickly if something flares up after troops are withdrawn.

Lock-stock-and-barrel once again eh? Pull out, and then if it goes wrong, go in again.. This from a veteran? Ridiculous.

Joe you aren't offering a solution because you don't have one & once again your reply has absolutely no substance to it... basically you are glossing over the fact that Bush didn't have an end state in mind & Obama does. As for the "this from a veteran" quip that is just plain stupid... many veterans (e.g. Generals) had significant input for Obama's plan (he didn't just lock himself in a room & come up with it himself).

[DEDixon 39]

no idea why afghanistan is a national security issue to the US and not europe. europe is using us.... again!

bring troops home from everywhere: korean, japan, germany, spain, england, the works.... invest in a navy if we want to be everywhere. we put troops in most of these countries to spread democracy a long time ago... mission accomplished, bring the troops home.

Oh wow, just wow, I knew something like this would come....

Is misinformation this bad in the US or...? Are you just very young or have memory loss issues?

You know that most of european countries chose to send troops to Afghanistan rather than to Iraq when Bush calls for it, right?

Most of the european countries (except the UK) screamed and screamed again that the real threat was coming for Afghanistan years ago.

France with NATO forces sent specialized units to help Afghanistan forming and training their own decent army to stop their civil war.

Europe army presence is there before you even knew what Afghanistan means...!

And if we, frenchies with Lafayette, didn't "spread democracy" in your country, you'd have a queen right now.

Your sequence of events are way out of line. And, of all countries in Europe, France has always been the least likely to help defend Europe.

[nowhereman 1]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

You either pay for things you break or at the least... fix them.

So I would assume that the experts and Generals feel it is a good strategy to announce a 30,000 troop increase in Afghanistan, then tell the enemy that they'll be gone by 2011 "if conditions on the ground warrant it" ---catch my drift Mr. Terrorist man? Hint hint? Just stop attacking until the end of that timeframe, and we'll be gone and you can go back to what you were doing before. If you're real good, we can get out alltogether and hand over the country to you! How's that!

So you preferred the Bush approach... write a blank check to the Afghan & Iraq governments, with no defined end state or benchmarks for success? All military operations should have a "commander's intent" (tactical level) or a strategic end state... an open ended, undefined end state isn't an end state at all. Moreover the statement "if conditions on the ground warrant it" is key; 2011 is a goal but not set in stone. Finally I haven't seen details of President Obama's plan but I imagine it will include a sizable force (maybe a division) that is nearby & ready to respond quickly if something flares up after troops are withdrawn.

Lock-stock-and-barrel once again eh? Pull out, and then if it goes wrong, go in again.. This from a veteran? Ridiculous.

Joe you aren't offering a solution because you don't have one & once again your reply has absolutely no substance to it... basically you are glossing over the fact that Bush didn't have an end state in mind & Obama does. As for the "this from a veteran" quip that is just plain stupid... many veterans (e.g. Generals) had significant input for Obama's plan (he didn't just lock himself in a room & come up with it himself).

Yes I have, put in the original requested amount of troops from his generals, and don't announce to the enemy when you're leaving. Can you explain to me how its good for the enemy to know when you're leaving?

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

Its hard for someone who accepts whatever Obama does and never disagrees (except for your token "i disagreed with him in this one instance") to comprehend any alternatives.

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

if russia couldn't pacify that country with more troops on the ground than we have now, we're just kidding ourselves to think we'll do any better.

i think it's time to pull pitch and cut our losses.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

if russia couldn't pacify that country with more troops on the ground than we have now, we're just kidding ourselves to think we'll do any better.

i think it's time to pull pitch and cut our losses.

Except we were supplying and training them at that time.........

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

if russia couldn't pacify that country with more troops on the ground than we have now, we're just kidding ourselves to think we'll do any better.

i think it's time to pull pitch and cut our losses.

Except we were supplying and training them at that time.........

and don't think someone else won't be doing the same.

[HAL 9000 96]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

if russia couldn't pacify that country with more troops on the ground than we have now, we're just kidding ourselves to think we'll do any better.

i think it's time to pull pitch and cut our losses.

Except we were supplying and training them at that time.........

Indeed... I think Afghanistan in 2009 and Soviet-invaded Afghanistan are two completely different poles.

I can only cross my fingers we're out BEFORE Obama's projected exit date.

[BishopMnA 0]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

if russia couldn't pacify that country with more troops on the ground than we have now, we're just kidding ourselves to think we'll do any better.

i think it's time to pull pitch and cut our losses.

You're right Charles...history proves it out well...

[HAL 9000 96]

Hey Joe... the question still stands.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I'm thoroughly disappointed in Obama over this...seriously.

ditto

Charles please elaborate on your opinion... Joe is doing an awful job trying to articulate his & as a fellow vet I'd like to hear yours.

if russia couldn't pacify that country with more troops on the ground than we have now, we're just kidding ourselves to think we'll do any better.

i think it's time to pull pitch and cut our losses.

Except we were supplying and training them at that time.........

and don't think someone else won't be doing the same.

Who? Iran? Elements of Pakistan?

[HAL 9000 96]

For all we know... Obama left information out on purpose as to strategy.

He'd still be dammed if he did... dammed if he didn't anyway.

[Kevin and 10]

Who? Iran? Elements of Pakistan?

China?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/j...4-112405-4300r/

China arming terrorists

New intelligence reveals China is covertly supplying large quantities of small arms and weapons to insurgents in Iraq and the Taliban militia in Afghanistan, through Iran.

U.S. government appeals to China to check some of the arms shipments in advance were met with stonewalling by Beijing, which insisted it knew nothing about the shipments and asked for additional intelligence on the transfers. The ploy has been used in the past by China to hide its arms-proliferation activities from the United States, according to U.S. officials with access to the intelligence reports.

Some arms were sent by aircraft directly from Chinese factories to Afghanistan and included large-caliber sniper rifles, millions of rounds of ammunition, rocket-propelled grenades and components for roadside bombs, as well as other small arms.

The Washington Times reported June 5 that Chinese-made HN-5 anti-aircraft missiles were being used by the Taliban.