Illegal immigrant minors

[HAL 9000 96]

i haven't seen aj take a beating like this ever since he got christina mad at him

HAL seems to have developed a taste for pwnishment too.

Apparently.

Its not until sh!t happens to your own kids that some people start to care about sh!t I guess.

As usual, you make ASSumptions about people that you know nothing about and conclude yourself superior. What do you know about my child or her health issues? Do you really want to go there? But then, YOU can, can't you, because YOU are above others, aren't you.

Sorry I doubted your omniscience and your magnanimousness. Please forgive, o holy one.

Here's wishing you tenfold what you wish on others.

Now this is getting interesting. Where EXACTLY does HAL 9000 make an assumption about you in particular??

Please... IF you are having personal problems outside of VJ that may cast a shadow on how you deal with others' perspectives as to topics such as this one (particularly, how children should be given equal footing regardless of their parents' transgressions), then I do hope you may overcome them.

And thanks for the well wishes. Thou hast been forgiven.

and hal has a red face!

Actually, O Holy One, I never said you made an assumption about me personally. You make generalizations about anyone who dares to disagree with your one and only righteous conclusions, and (I pray thee not strike me dead) that includes me. But in case you didn't follow the thread, you were responding to a post about me and referring to Sh!t happening to people's children. I know how you like to talk in circles, O Holy One, and avoid committing yourself, but it didn't quite slip past. Who were the people who might have sh!t happen to their children? Oh yes, we who differ, the evil ones.

And now you HAVE made a direct assumption about me. The only reason I could disagree with you is because I'm having personal problems. What a wise and open mind you have. So fair and intelligent. Maybe in your oh-so-highly-evolved mind you can comfort yourself that I must just be on the "rag." Your logic follows that path. Please, O Holy One, dismiss my paltry musings for I am but a lowly woman who actually believes she can think for herself.

But your omniscience is failing, I fear to tell you, O Holy One. I have no personal problems related to this issue. I know you are not disappointed. I know your good wishes for me and mine are sincere.

I accept your forgiveness, O Holy One of the House of Smug. Now you may go in peace.

In other words, lets re-read what you wrote previously:

As usual, you make ASSumptions about people that you know nothing about and conclude yourself superior. What do you know about my child or her health issues? Do you really want to go there? But then, YOU can, can't you, because YOU are above others, aren't you.

Sentence #1 implies you are an avid reader of my posts and can make a qualified conclusion with verifiable data to back your claim.

Question #1 follows with a near-putative relation linking unsaid things about your child (and by consequence, you) with this supposed conclusion that I believe has more to do with some kind of frustration you are merely attempting to take out on this user for whatever reasons you may have. Again- I am not specifying this in any way, but merely noting it and I will explain it briefly.

Question #2 answered: I prefer not to confuse actual sad life stories and any strange claims people try to make to get a kick out of an argument. I think you probably don't either.

By cynically altering said sense of belonging of any reasonable claim to righteousness IN THIS SPECIFIC topic so as to elevate my/another's 'opposing' argument to an artificial, relative, and hyperbolic tone, you only show there are circumstances beyond anyone elses but yours that impede you from continuing this debate in a level headed fashion. I maintain this conclusion, not generalization, based on ample experience dealing with people on these boards that quite easily explode into hysterics, including lowering of one's own capacity to grasp CLEAR concepts, in an attempt to garner justification and sympathy- or simply creating attention where perhaps none was intended.

Once again, my question to point out these 'assumptions' of you, as you so boldly claim, have been unanswered. This perhaps could be avoidance? Such is a typical behavior of arguments without sufficient evidence to generate such a conclusion.

If indeed it is ample in evidence, then a statistically significant number of examples could be called upon in the proper context.

[HAL 9000 96]

To my understanding, my generalizations are drawn once I have sufficient experience with those I generalize to the extent that I can do so comfortably and reliably such that the generalization becomes synonymic with a much more correct term you may be avoiding = conclusion. Sometimes I may be wrong- and I certainly try to avoid those instances. In clear and simple English, this means that I don't call a spade until I see a spade.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

To ill-wishers that would love to see undocumented children without proer care: I pray and pray the same ####### comes down on your children. and ** you, in the process.

[LoveMyTico 999]

I am against illegal immigration; however, it is not the fault of the child that they are, and I don't think it's fair for the children. Many of my students in the public school are illegal or children (or grandchildren) of illegal immigrants. Although I don't agree with what they're parents have done, a 3-month, or 3-year old, does not have the choice NOT to be illegal either. I believe they shouldn't have to suffer more than they do as a result.

IMO, if you keep providing free stuff, it just makes it easier for them to stay and sponge off of our country. I won't even donate to the local food bank because more than half of the recipients are illegal. Give them free clothes and free food and they stay as long as they can to get the free stuff. If you make it difficult for them to make ends meet in a country they are not supposed to be in, maybe they will go back to their own country. Nobody told them to come here so they can suffer....If they can't make it here then they need to go home and sponge off their own country...The immigration laws are there for a reason. I struggle my butt off to make ends meets. It really annoys me that I bust my butt and I am a USC but all the illegals claim they are poor and they get everything free. And then they send all their money back to their home countries because they intend to "return home" one day.

With that said, I agree that it is not the childs fault that they are here illegally HOWEVER, I do believe the parents should be sent back to thier country to take care of their kids there. There are so many american people who need the donations.

[almaty 19]

To ill-wishers that would love to see undocumented children without proer care: I pray and pray the same ####### comes down on your children. and ** you, in the process.

word

[GabiandVi 34]

To ill-wishers that would love to see undocumented children without proer care: I pray and pray the same ####### comes down on your children. and ** you, in the process.

I think this would be an understandable, though vendictive wish. Please point out any who would love to see undocumented children without proper care. I am out of that loop, apparantly.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

To ill-wishers that would love to see undocumented children without proer care: I pray and pray the same ####### comes down on your children. and ** you, in the process.

I think this would be an understandable, though vendictive wish. Please point out any who would love to see undocumented children without proper care. I am out of that loop, apparantly.

Gaby, you are not that important. It was not directed to you. and yes, you bet it is a vindictive wish, which I repeat: to anyone who wishes any child to be without proper care, I hope they get to experience the same ####### in their lives. and they can ** themselves.

[GabiandVi 34]

i haven't seen aj take a beating like this ever since he got christina mad at him

HAL seems to have developed a taste for pwnishment too.

Apparently.

Its not until sh!t happens to your own kids that some people start to care about sh!t I guess.

As usual, you make ASSumptions about people that you know nothing about and conclude yourself superior. What do you know about my child or her health issues? Do you really want to go there? But then, YOU can, can't you, because YOU are above others, aren't you.

Sorry I doubted your omniscience and your magnanimousness. Please forgive, o holy one.

Here's wishing you tenfold what you wish on others.

Now this is getting interesting. Where EXACTLY does HAL 9000 make an assumption about you in particular??

Please... IF you are having personal problems outside of VJ that may cast a shadow on how you deal with others' perspectives as to topics such as this one (particularly, how children should be given equal footing regardless of their parents' transgressions), then I do hope you may overcome them.

And thanks for the well wishes. Thou hast been forgiven.

and hal has a red face!

Actually, O Holy One, I never said you made an assumption about me personally. You make generalizations about anyone who dares to disagree with your one and only righteous conclusions, and (I pray thee not strike me dead) that includes me. But in case you didn't follow the thread, you were responding to a post about me and referring to Sh!t happening to people's children. I know how you like to talk in circles, O Holy One, and avoid committing yourself, but it didn't quite slip past. Who were the people who might have sh!t happen to their children? Oh yes, we who differ, the evil ones.

And now you HAVE made a direct assumption about me. The only reason I could disagree with you is because I'm having personal problems. What a wise and open mind you have. So fair and intelligent. Maybe in your oh-so-highly-evolved mind you can comfort yourself that I must just be on the "rag." Your logic follows that path. Please, O Holy One, dismiss my paltry musings for I am but a lowly woman who actually believes she can think for herself.

But your omniscience is failing, I fear to tell you, O Holy One. I have no personal problems related to this issue. I know you are not disappointed. I know your good wishes for me and mine are sincere.

I accept your forgiveness, O Holy One of the House of Smug. Now you may go in peace.

In other words, lets re-read what you wrote previously:

As usual, you make ASSumptions about people that you know nothing about and conclude yourself superior. What do you know about my child or her health issues? Do you really want to go there? But then, YOU can, can't you, because YOU are above others, aren't you.

Sentence #1 implies you are an avid reader of my posts and can make a qualified conclusion with verifiable data to back your claim.

Question #1 follows with a near-putative relation linking unsaid things about your child (and by consequence, you) with this supposed conclusion that I believe has more to do with some kind of frustration you are merely attempting to take out on this user for whatever reasons you may have. Again- I am not specifying this in any way, but merely noting it and I will explain it briefly.

Question #2 answered: I prefer not to confuse actual sad life stories and any strange claims people try to make to get a kick out of an argument. I think you probably don't either.

By cynically altering said sense of belonging of any reasonable claim to righteousness IN THIS SPECIFIC topic so as to elevate my/another's 'opposing' argument to an artificial, relative, and hyperbolic tone, you only show there are circumstances beyond anyone elses but yours that impede you from continuing this debate in a level headed fashion. I maintain this conclusion, not generalization, based on ample experience dealing with people on these boards that quite easily explode into hysterics, including lowering of one's own capacity to grasp CLEAR concepts, in an attempt to garner justification and sympathy- or simply creating attention where perhaps none was intended.

Once again, my question to point out these 'assumptions' of you, as you so boldly claim, have been unanswered. This perhaps could be avoidance? Such is a typical behavior of arguments without sufficient evidence to generate such a conclusion.

If indeed it is ample in evidence, then a statistically significant number of examples could be called upon in the proper context.

Avid reader of your posts? O Holy One, occasionally I peruse the off topic forum and I read your posts and the posts of your tag team. I do not have time to go back and find your smug, ambiguously judgemental posts, but if you would like, O Holy One, I will point them out to you from now on.

My problem is not with this issue. If you had read my very first response to this poll, you would see that I have no problem supporting the children of illegal immigrants. I don't know if you have any actual interaction with illegal aliens, but, as a teacher, I do, and there is a special place in my heart for ESL learners, most of whom at my school are here illegally.

My issue is with the prevailing intellectual dishonesty on VJ. Initially, I read the political threads out of interest and desire for an honest debate. I enjoy hearing opposing points of view. I sometimes learn things or look at things in ways I haven't thought of before. But on VJ they all seem to reduce to slugging matches where people no longer address the issues but begin attacking the character of dissenting voices and that generally turns my stomach. But what turms my stomach most is the hypocritical, hypercritical, hyperjudgemental, smug self-righteousness of a certain crew on these forums, and after observing so much poison, I sometimes spew back.

You see, I truly believe that people who have a different point of view from mine have arrived there for sincere reasons. I believe that they draw conclusions sincerely based on their moral and ethical code, and while I may not agree with them, I respect their point of view. I don't presume they are stupid or immoral or ignorant or narrow-minded or selfish or lack in humanity or conscience or that they wish harm to the children of illegal aliens because they do not see things the way I do. I don't think thoughts like, "Who do you hate more, people who have this opposing view or people who have that opposing view?" All of these labels and comments I have read on the threads here on VJ, and have seen implied as well, and almost exclusively by people who hold themselves as being intellectually and morally superior because they are "so much more open-minded" than conservatives or Christians or etc. That sort of attitude disappoints me beyond description. It implies a hopelessness about our future. The pigs are running the farm.

And you are among those guilty of being judgemental and smug. I take you back to your original response to me on this thread. If you can honestly tell yourself that you are not being judgemental about the opposing point of view on this issue, then I believe you are deluded. "Some people don't give sh!t about other people's children until sh!t happens to their children." Nothing judgemental about that. No assumptions there about people who disagree with you.

You are right. I was not arguing this issue. This entire poll is a farce. It was written by someone who has admitted that he believes anyone who answers no to any of his poll questions lacks humanity. There's no room for argument with that assumption. Only judgement and attack. I was challenging that. I was challenging that hypocracy. And you stepped up.

[GabiandVi 34]

To ill-wishers that would love to see undocumented children without proer care: I pray and pray the same ####### comes down on your children. and ** you, in the process.

I think this would be an understandable, though vendictive wish. Please point out any who would love to see undocumented children without proper care. I am out of that loop, apparantly.

Gaby, you are not that important. It was not directed to you. and yes, you bet it is a vindictive wish, which I repeat: to anyone who wishes any child to be without proper care, I hope they get to experience the same ####### in their lives. and they can ** themselves.

You don't get it. I didn't think it was directed at me. Who is it directed at? That's my question. I've seen no such sentiments. Have you? I would agree with you I had. But I wonder if you are reading people's minds and if the message has gotten muddled in the translation.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

To ill-wishers that would love to see undocumented children without proer care: I pray and pray the same ####### comes down on your children. and ** you, in the process.

I think this would be an understandable, though vendictive wish. Please point out any who would love to see undocumented children without proper care. I am out of that loop, apparantly.

Gaby, you are not that important. It was not directed to you. and yes, you bet it is a vindictive wish, which I repeat: to anyone who wishes any child to be without proper care, I hope they get to experience the same ####### in their lives. and they can ** themselves.

You don't get it. I didn't think it was directed at me. Who is it directed at? That's my question. I've seen no such sentiments. Have you? I would agree with you I had. But I wonder if you are reading people's minds and if the message has gotten muddled in the translation.

You didn't get it, either. It was a comment I chose to make in general, to whomever it fits.

I believe anyone who wishes ill on any child, or who thinks their children deserve better care than any other child are arrogant egotistic excuses of humanity, and would much benefit from something happening to their own children, just to see how quickly their petty little minds change.

That is my message, and my belief. What other people think of it is really of no consequence.

[GabiandVi 34]

To ill-wishers that would love to see undocumented children without proer care: I pray and pray the same ####### comes down on your children. and ** you, in the process.

I think this would be an understandable, though vendictive wish. Please point out any who would love to see undocumented children without proper care. I am out of that loop, apparantly.

Gaby, you are not that important. It was not directed to you. and yes, you bet it is a vindictive wish, which I repeat: to anyone who wishes any child to be without proper care, I hope they get to experience the same ####### in their lives. and they can ** themselves.

You don't get it. I didn't think it was directed at me. Who is it directed at? That's my question. I've seen no such sentiments. Have you? I would agree with you I had. But I wonder if you are reading people's minds and if the message has gotten muddled in the translation.

You didn't get it, either. It was a comment I chose to make in general, to whomever it fits.

I believe anyone who wishes ill on any child, or who thinks their children deserve better care than any other child are arrogant egotistic excuses of humanity, and would much benefit from something happening to their own children, just to see how quickly their petty little minds change.

That is my message, and my belief. What other people think of it is really of no consequence.

I guess I live in a better world than you do. I don't know any people like that.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Good for you. Say hi to the unicorns after you look at the results of the poll that heads this topic.

[GabiandVi 34]

Good for you. Say hi to the unicorns after you look at the results of the poll that heads this topic.

Oh so you ARE directing your wish at anyone who does not want to pay for the care of the children of illegal aliens. You have read their minds and found them wishing harm on others. I don't know any unicorns, but you must. People in my world can't read minds.

[HAL 9000 96]

i haven't seen aj take a beating like this ever since he got christina mad at him

HAL seems to have developed a taste for pwnishment too.

Apparently.

Its not until sh!t happens to your own kids that some people start to care about sh!t I guess.

As usual, you make ASSumptions about people that you know nothing about and conclude yourself superior. What do you know about my child or her health issues? Do you really want to go there? But then, YOU can, can't you, because YOU are above others, aren't you.

Sorry I doubted your omniscience and your magnanimousness. Please forgive, o holy one.

Here's wishing you tenfold what you wish on others.

Now this is getting interesting. Where EXACTLY does HAL 9000 make an assumption about you in particular??

Please... IF you are having personal problems outside of VJ that may cast a shadow on how you deal with others' perspectives as to topics such as this one (particularly, how children should be given equal footing regardless of their parents' transgressions), then I do hope you may overcome them.

And thanks for the well wishes. Thou hast been forgiven.

and hal has a red face!

Actually, O Holy One, I never said you made an assumption about me personally. You make generalizations about anyone who dares to disagree with your one and only righteous conclusions, and (I pray thee not strike me dead) that includes me. But in case you didn't follow the thread, you were responding to a post about me and referring to Sh!t happening to people's children. I know how you like to talk in circles, O Holy One, and avoid committing yourself, but it didn't quite slip past. Who were the people who might have sh!t happen to their children? Oh yes, we who differ, the evil ones.

And now you HAVE made a direct assumption about me. The only reason I could disagree with you is because I'm having personal problems. What a wise and open mind you have. So fair and intelligent. Maybe in your oh-so-highly-evolved mind you can comfort yourself that I must just be on the "rag." Your logic follows that path. Please, O Holy One, dismiss my paltry musings for I am but a lowly woman who actually believes she can think for herself.

But your omniscience is failing, I fear to tell you, O Holy One. I have no personal problems related to this issue. I know you are not disappointed. I know your good wishes for me and mine are sincere.

I accept your forgiveness, O Holy One of the House of Smug. Now you may go in peace.

In other words, lets re-read what you wrote previously:

As usual, you make ASSumptions about people that you know nothing about and conclude yourself superior. What do you know about my child or her health issues? Do you really want to go there? But then, YOU can, can't you, because YOU are above others, aren't you.

Sentence #1 implies you are an avid reader of my posts and can make a qualified conclusion with verifiable data to back your claim.

Question #1 follows with a near-putative relation linking unsaid things about your child (and by consequence, you) with this supposed conclusion that I believe has more to do with some kind of frustration you are merely attempting to take out on this user for whatever reasons you may have. Again- I am not specifying this in any way, but merely noting it and I will explain it briefly.

Question #2 answered: I prefer not to confuse actual sad life stories and any strange claims people try to make to get a kick out of an argument. I think you probably don't either.

By cynically altering said sense of belonging of any reasonable claim to righteousness IN THIS SPECIFIC topic so as to elevate my/another's 'opposing' argument to an artificial, relative, and hyperbolic tone, you only show there are circumstances beyond anyone elses but yours that impede you from continuing this debate in a level headed fashion. I maintain this conclusion, not generalization, based on ample experience dealing with people on these boards that quite easily explode into hysterics, including lowering of one's own capacity to grasp CLEAR concepts, in an attempt to garner justification and sympathy- or simply creating attention where perhaps none was intended.

Once again, my question to point out these 'assumptions' of you, as you so boldly claim, have been unanswered. This perhaps could be avoidance? Such is a typical behavior of arguments without sufficient evidence to generate such a conclusion.

If indeed it is ample in evidence, then a statistically significant number of examples could be called upon in the proper context.

Avid reader of your posts? O Holy One, occasionally I peruse the off topic forum and I read your posts and the posts of your tag team. I do not have time to go back and find your smug, ambiguously judgemental posts, but if you would like, O Holy One, I will point them out to you from now on.

My problem is not with this issue. If you had read my very first response to this poll, you would see that I have no problem supporting the children of illegal immigrants. I don't know if you have any actual interaction with illegal aliens, but, as a teacher, I do, and there is a special place in my heart for ESL learners, most of whom at my school are here illegally.

My issue is with the prevailing intellectual dishonesty on VJ. Initially, I read the political threads out of interest and desire for an honest debate. I enjoy hearing opposing points of view. I sometimes learn things or look at things in ways I haven't thought of before. But on VJ they all seem to reduce to slugging matches where people no longer address the issues but begin attacking the character of dissenting voices and that generally turns my stomach. But what turms my stomach most is the hypocritical, hypercritical, hyperjudgemental, smug self-righteousness of a certain crew on these forums, and after observing so much poison, I sometimes spew back.

You see, I truly believe that people who have a different point of view from mine have arrived there for sincere reasons. I believe that they draw conclusions sincerely based on their moral and ethical code, and while I may not agree with them, I respect their point of view. I don't presume they are stupid or immoral or ignorant or narrow-minded or selfish or lack in humanity or conscience or that they wish harm to the children of illegal aliens because they do not see things the way I do. I don't think thoughts like, "Who do you hate more, people who have this opposing view or people who have that opposing view?" All of these labels and comments I have read on the threads here on VJ, and have seen implied as well, and almost exclusively by people who hold themselves as being intellectually and morally superior because they are "so much more open-minded" than conservatives or Christians or etc. That sort of attitude disappoints me beyond description. It implies a hopelessness about our future. The pigs are running the farm.

And you are among those guilty of being judgemental and smug. I take you back to your original response to me on this thread. If you can honestly tell yourself that you are not being judgemental about the opposing point of view on this issue, then I believe you are deluded. "Some people don't give sh!t about other people's children until sh!t happens to their children." Nothing judgemental about that. No assumptions there about people who disagree with you.

You are right. I was not arguing this issue. This entire poll is a farce. It was written by someone who has admitted that he believes anyone who answers no to any of his poll questions lacks humanity. There's no room for argument with that assumption. Only judgement and attack. I was challenging that. I was challenging that hypocracy. And you stepped up.

Well oh well... I look forward to such a moment. My tag team will be waiting too, perhaps. I do not speak for others here. Could it be you're jealous somehow? That is not a smug question- its an honest and rhetorical one at that.

As for the rest of your 'lecture' I'll spare you a smug reaction which will only draw out an even larger and perhaps irrational response from you as you felt somehow identified in the course of the thread. As I stated in my previous reply, I do not say things to get them out my rectum. If you do notice the morons that bear the brunt of MY personal responses, you'll notice whom they are, what they argue, and how my argument is VERY context-specific. That is something that many here in VJ, particularly OT, seem to forgo either in the name of kicks, obtrusiveness, or in decompressing repressed aspects of their personality in that place called the real world. In case you have not noticed, VJ isn't exactly a bona fide part of the real world and people here say things they likely would not say elsewhere.

By now you have been around enough to identify what kind of posting takes place by certain posters. You can expect most anything that AJ posts to be intended to rile people up. Some come off as bigots and racists or complete ignorami where they suddenly have opinions that in their mind's eye, far outreaches those of learned experts. Does that not strike you as odd? IF you spent half the time covering such discussion as you've spent here arguing with someone that agrees with you on the actual issue mentioned in the discussion... imagine (again) how context could be used to get a point across.

Next, one thing you perhaps forget is that everyone here- be they right, wrong, crazy, bent, hysterical, baiting, dumb, ignorant, etc etc etc, has a right to voice their opinion as they see fit. If they propose to make ridiculous claims, or to focus their accumulated rage in a certain area... they should most assuredly expect to be engaged and exposed for what they say- ridiculous things and raging explosions.

If you took offense personally or felt identified by my conscience and how I judge what I feel to be many a waste of humanity in our human society, I apologize if it makes you feel better. I do not, however, under any circumstance, make any apology for having a system of morality, conscience, and rational thought that I weigh against a global standard where all humanity deserves equal treatment for their human condition. That is not ambiguous, self-righteous, nor hypocritical under any circumstance.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Good for you. Say hi to the unicorns after you look at the results of the poll that heads this topic.

Oh so you ARE directing your wish at anyone who does not want to pay for the care of the children of illegal aliens. You have read their minds and found them wishing harm on others. I don't know any unicorns, but you must. People in my world can't read minds.

Yes, now you got it. Bravo.