Willing to bear arms?

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

I'm not an anarchist, I understand that government is a necessity and it can be useful at times, but I don't trust it and act on my best concience too.

I would swear but with my own definitions in my mind and judging the situation as it unfolds.

If a tyrannical Wasilla based govt takes over in the US I won't bear arms against it ('it' being the combined US armed forces) - I will grab a cheap ticket Seattle-Heathrow one way. Actually I might fly business class.

This dual citizenship thing (Europe/USA) looks better and better

Tyrannical government is in the WH NOW. Bush was bad, real bad, but the "messiah" beats the ###### out of anyone. I'd take Wasilla anytime...

[Brit Abroad 166]

Just curious - I'm a year away....but I consider myself a peaceful person. I have no intention of ever touching a gun, let alone using one. No matter who it's for.

This seems like such an antiquated question, no?

Don't become an American if you are not willing to stand up and protect this nation!

Interesting take on this one - if you're born American you aren't required to swear an oath to bear arms in defence of the country and yet a foreign-born American has to? Seems like discrimination to me. I could understand being asked to swear an allegiance of priority to America over your former domicile, or to relinquish American citizenship and return to your birth country if you couldn't, but allowing a native to opt out while forcing a naturalised citizen seems somewhat unfair.

[Captain Oates 911]

Interesting take on this one - if you're born American you aren't required to swear an oath to bear arms in defence of the country and yet a foreign-born American has to? Seems like discrimination to me. I could understand being asked to swear an allegiance of priority to America over your former domicile, or to relinquish American citizenship and return to your birth country if you couldn't, but allowing a native to opt out while forcing a naturalised citizen seems somewhat unfair.

Yes I thought the only difference between me and a natural born American would be being President but I suspect there is more.

Up to July this year a Washington State Green Card holder could not buy a firearm without a special alien license which was withheld anyway. Only citizens. Now they can and I did on day 1. Nice little CZ .22 target rifle like I had in the UK.

It was changed by the court under the 14th amendment - discrimination.

The law reflected the time when black people could not be citizens and therefore could not have a firearm. The US is moving forward on all fronts - but it will take time.

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

Interesting take on this one - if you're born American you aren't required to swear an oath to bear arms in defence of the country and yet a foreign-born American has to? Seems like discrimination to me. I could understand being asked to swear an allegiance of priority to America over your former domicile, or to relinquish American citizenship and return to your birth country if you couldn't, but allowing a native to opt out while forcing a naturalised citizen seems somewhat unfair.

Yes I thought the only difference between me and a natural born American would be being President but I suspect there is more.

Up to July this year a Washington State Green Card holder could not buy a firearm without a special alien license which was withheld anyway. Only citizens. Now they can and I did on day 1. Nice little CZ .22 target rifle like I had in the UK.

It was changed by the court under the 14th amendment - discrimination.

The law reflected the time when black people could not be citizens and therefore could not have a firearm. The US is moving forward on all fronts - but it will take time.

It's interesting they did that in Washington state - i didn't know. Here in VA it wasn't an issue - you have to present your green card and 3 consecutive months of proof of residence with the same address (bank statements or so) in addition to DL and second form of ID that citizens need, but then you are all good to go. Can easily get a CHP too, and don't even need to show GC there, just attest that you are a citizen or permanent resident.

CZ is a good toy too - well priced and great quality!

[internetkafe 0]

How about getting a Kalashnikov? You need a GC or what? LOL

[Captain Oates 911]

How about getting a Kalashnikov? You need a GC or what? LOL

I dont fit into any stereotype easily ..

I am against capital punishment coz I think a life in prison is X times worse

I have a pistol and a concealed carry permit and AR-15 assault rifle (US version of Kalashnikov) but I am PRO tight gun control/required training /locked up guns etc

I am very anti illegal immigrant/amnesty - but pro universal health care

I am for just defensive wars - but against foolhardy adventures for commercial gain

Would I bear arms for the US ? Yes if the North Koreans were flooding ashore in Seattle. BUT - protect the Afghan heroin poppy fields to please our 'allies' who own them ? Nope.

Apart from that ... the absence of anything bad happening after the Vietnam defeat tells me the reasons for the war were bogus and we could have had cheap shirts 15 years earlier.

Say yes but think hard and be true to yourself would be my answer.. jeez it's great being old and exempt

You whippersnappers have it hard.

[SuperDuper! 230]

How about getting a Kalashnikov? You need a GC or what? LOL

I dont fit into any stereotype easily ..

I am against capital punishment coz I think a life in prison is X times worse

I have a pistol and a concealed carry permit and AR-15 assault rifle (US version of Kalashnikov) but I am PRO tight gun control/required training /locked up guns etc

I am very anti illegal immigrant/amnesty - but pro universal health care

I am for just defensive wars - but against foolhardy adventures for commercial gain

Would I bear arms for the US ? Yes if the North Koreans were flooding ashore in Seattle. BUT - protect the Afghan heroin poppy fields to please our 'allies' who own them ? Nope.

Apart from that ... the absence of anything bad happening after the Vietnam defeat tells me the reasons for the war were bogus and we could have had cheap shirts 15 years earlier.

Say yes but think hard and be true to yourself would be my answer.. jeez it's great being old and exempt

You whippersnappers have it hard.

A VERY well written post! I love it, and how refreshing! Watch and learn, folks!

[elishav 0]

That's a twisted statement. I always thought that honoring any oath is a proper thing to do if you took this oath volounterely and in good faith. The real problem is that the country decayed to the point when no one takes any oaths seriously and even elected officials all the way to the oval office do not honor the oath of office. What happened to "defend and protect the Constitution...against all enemies - foregn and domestic"!?!?!?

I am sorry you don't agree. By your statement the country was decaying before the ink was dry on the Declaration of Independance. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..." The enslavement of African-Americans, the decimation of entire Native American populations etc. took place under a government that declared itself using these words.

Horrible horrible things have been done in the name of issuing unconditional allegiance. Classical organizational theory has sent millions of people efficiently to slaughter and all they were doing was upholding "oaths" to their government and superiors. NO THANK YOU!

By the way, don't assume you know my political stance on anything. Frankly, I could care less about gun control. Have guns, don't have guns. It's all gravy. Just don't force me to use them against the person you pre-ordained the enemy.

[elishav 0]

Yikes, I didn't realize this kind of question was going to be asked for my future husband. He's from the UK and like a majority of his country, thinks gun control is extremely important and that Americans are too gun-happy.

I'm inclined to agree, especially with a Constitution that has amendments for a reason...

Now, I come from a strong military family and my dad is a colonel, so I very much support our troops, especially as they put their lives in danger for our country. It's more about Congress that I wouldn't agree with who have the power to involve the U.S. in wars, but I guess there's no stopping them except for voting them out.

*sigh*

Gun control in the UK is only an issue if you want to own one legally, illegally not a problem.

I prefer the US system. Gives you a chance.

Please stop jacking threads. This is not about gun control. Your off-topic snide comments to people are all over this board. There are plenty of places on the internet for what you are looking for. People have politely asked you to stop, so please stop.

Actually, she mentioned gun control first. As NickD pointed out, the Oath statement about bearing arms has absolutely nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. But when you start talking about morals of bearing arms, these 2 subjects mix and I was partially guilty in taking this thread somewhat offtopic by making comments about Right to bear arms. However, it was Justine+David who mentioned gun control first, so don't scream at Boiler just because you disagree with his statement and agree with hers. We see enough of this tactic in congress and media, it's really not cool

I wasn't making any kind of statement regarding his opinions, only that they be given context to immigration issues. She was voicing concern about the oath and giving it context to her future husband in Britain, he was making a comment about gun control laws.

Boiler made another comment on a forum about someone discussing the demise of their international marriage with "Just sounds like another latin marriage". Talk about kicking someone while they are down. It's ####### like that I take an issue with. Visajourney is one of a kind site about marriage immigration issues and I hope it stays that way.

[Boiler 45,499]

Yikes, I didn't realize this kind of question was going to be asked for my future husband. He's from the UK and like a majority of his country, thinks gun control is extremely important and that Americans are too gun-happy.

I'm inclined to agree, especially with a Constitution that has amendments for a reason...

Now, I come from a strong military family and my dad is a colonel, so I very much support our troops, especially as they put their lives in danger for our country. It's more about Congress that I wouldn't agree with who have the power to involve the U.S. in wars, but I guess there's no stopping them except for voting them out.

*sigh*

Gun control in the UK is only an issue if you want to own one legally, illegally not a problem.

I prefer the US system. Gives you a chance.

Please stop jacking threads. This is not about gun control. Your off-topic snide comments to people are all over this board. There are plenty of places on the internet for what you are looking for. People have politely asked you to stop, so please stop.

Actually, she mentioned gun control first. As NickD pointed out, the Oath statement about bearing arms has absolutely nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. But when you start talking about morals of bearing arms, these 2 subjects mix and I was partially guilty in taking this thread somewhat offtopic by making comments about Right to bear arms. However, it was Justine+David who mentioned gun control first, so don't scream at Boiler just because you disagree with his statement and agree with hers. We see enough of this tactic in congress and media, it's really not cool

I wasn't making any kind of statement regarding his opinions, only that they be given context to immigration issues. She was voicing concern about the oath and giving it context to her future husband in Britain, he was making a comment about gun control laws.

Boiler made another comment on a forum about someone discussing the demise of their international marriage with "Just sounds like another latin marriage". Talk about kicking someone while they are down. It's ####### like that I take an issue with. Visajourney is one of a kind site about marriage immigration issues and I hope it stays that way.

Really?

I think not, I would have remembered.

I have no idea what a latin marriage is for a start, I only did one year of latin and never got beyond amo amas amat

[NickD 202]

Feeling somewhat hypocritical now by talking my wife into answering yes to that question, considered it to be more rhetorical and general to those capable of fighting for this country. She in no way is capable of doing this and lug around a 65 pound pack of goodies, plus a weapon, with lots of ammo. But on the other hand, she could press a red button if they gave her one to press.

Actually, only a very small percentage of our troops directly encounter the enemy, about 10%, army still runs on paper work, she is very good at that, and would be very beneficial to the troops with her medical experience. But that very brief question does not cover all aspects of war, just bearing arms. Perhaps that question like many more in the N-400 should read, Are you willing to help defend this country if required by law.

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

I dont fit into any stereotype easily ..

I'm also not as straight forward as I might seem... Here is my take

I am against capital punishment coz I think a life in prison is X times worse

I used to think so too, but not anymore. Several reasons why:

1) Yes, it would seem to anyone that life in prison is much worse than quick death, but human phychology plays funny games with persons mind when such person is put in what seems to be a dead end situation. They found hope and live day by day hoping to get an appeal, a parole, a pardon or simply escape. Logically they realize that none of that is likely to happen, but in their mind it's their light in the end of the tunnel. They have nothing to lose too, so they are more likely to go to any extremes to escape.

2) Keeping a person in jail costs A LOT of money. Why a criminal who killed or raped someone gets free room and board, free healthcare, free library, free activities all on tax payers dime? That's just unfair. Imagine a person in his 20s is locked up for life and he ends up living until he is 70 for example. 50 years of free life paid on our dime for killing an innocent person? I don't think it's fair at all.

3) Even if the case is crystal clear and there is no possiblity of parole or appeal, there is always a chance to escape. Some people that commit certain crimes should NO chance to see the light of day again, by any means. Put them down and get it over is.

I have a pistol and a concealed carry permit and AR-15 assault rifle (US version of Kalashnikov) but I am PRO tight gun control/required training /locked up guns etc

Define what you mean by tight gun control in this matter. I hang out around many gun web boards and sometimes I see such reckless cowboy attitudes there, that I'd actually agree with both training requirments, mandatory safes at homes, and mental health evaluations similar to those law enforcement officers have to clear. The only problem I see here is that gun rights erode one thing at a time and anti-gunners wouldn't stop no matter how much they get, in fact they will want more and more. This is an eternal struggle between gun right groups and anti-gun groups in this country and I don't think compromise is possible so both sides have to take extreme positions.

You saw what happened in your home country - first came licensing, then registraion, then partial bans, then confiscations. I don't want to see it go down that way here. I wish there was a compromise like everyone should get training, mental evaluation and get issued a license; but after that no more attempts to ban guns or confiscate them...but unfortunately examples around the world shows that's it's not possible. Plus, as I mentioned before, I just don't trust the government.

Also, it seems to me that you are being hypocritical on the issue. You admit that you have a CCP, probably pack heat in public and own what anti-gunners call an assault weapon. Seems like a pretty extreme selection of what anti-gunners wet their beds over. I know some hunters and skeet shooters who own a bolt action rifle or an over-and-under shotgun and say that they are against handguns or concealed carry or assault weapons. That I can understand. But seems to me that you are a different case. Seems that you trust yourself with having all this serious weaponry, but don't trust others. While I do understand where you coming from, it seems like a little bit of elitism to me...

I am very anti illegal immigrant/amnesty - but pro universal health care

I'm also very much against illegals. As for the health care... I agree that the idea is good and in theory I'd support it, but in reality I think that it will simply bankrupt the economy even further, at least right now. I don't buy the argument how the proposed reform gonna cut costs either, it's just not feasible.

I am for just defensive wars - but against foolhardy adventures for commercial gain

Would I bear arms for the US ? Yes if the North Koreans were flooding ashore in Seattle. BUT - protect the Afghan heroin poppy fields to please our 'allies' who own them ? Nope.

Apart from that ... the absence of anything bad happening after the Vietnam defeat tells me the reasons for the war were bogus and we could have had cheap shirts 15 years earlier.

Say yes but think hard and be true to yourself would be my answer.. jeez it's great being old and exempt

You whippersnappers have it hard.

Here I agree with every word.

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

Yikes, I didn't realize this kind of question was going to be asked for my future husband. He's from the UK and like a majority of his country, thinks gun control is extremely important and that Americans are too gun-happy.

I'm inclined to agree, especially with a Constitution that has amendments for a reason...

Now, I come from a strong military family and my dad is a colonel, so I very much support our troops, especially as they put their lives in danger for our country. It's more about Congress that I wouldn't agree with who have the power to involve the U.S. in wars, but I guess there's no stopping them except for voting them out.

*sigh*

Gun control in the UK is only an issue if you want to own one legally, illegally not a problem.

I prefer the US system. Gives you a chance.

Please stop jacking threads. This is not about gun control. Your off-topic snide comments to people are all over this board. There are plenty of places on the internet for what you are looking for. People have politely asked you to stop, so please stop.

Actually, she mentioned gun control first. As NickD pointed out, the Oath statement about bearing arms has absolutely nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment. But when you start talking about morals of bearing arms, these 2 subjects mix and I was partially guilty in taking this thread somewhat offtopic by making comments about Right to bear arms. However, it was Justine+David who mentioned gun control first, so don't scream at Boiler just because you disagree with his statement and agree with hers. We see enough of this tactic in congress and media, it's really not cool

I wasn't making any kind of statement regarding his opinions, only that they be given context to immigration issues. She was voicing concern about the oath and giving it context to her future husband in Britain, he was making a comment about gun control laws.

Boiler made another comment on a forum about someone discussing the demise of their international marriage with "Just sounds like another latin marriage". Talk about kicking someone while they are down. It's ####### like that I take an issue with. Visajourney is one of a kind site about marriage immigration issues and I hope it stays that way.

That's not true. Read the thread again - she was in fact the first one who mentioned gun control and he just replied. As for what he did or didn't post before - I don't know about it so I cannot judge either way.

[NickD 202]

Feel this thread is going to be a candidate for the off topic section. But certainly we our own experience and the OP's original question, has anyone answered NO to the bearing of arms question?

[Redneck-NOVA 1]

That's a twisted statement. I always thought that honoring any oath is a proper thing to do if you took this oath volounterely and in good faith. The real problem is that the country decayed to the point when no one takes any oaths seriously and even elected officials all the way to the oval office do not honor the oath of office. What happened to "defend and protect the Constitution...against all enemies - foregn and domestic"!?!?!?

I am sorry you don't agree. By your statement the country was decaying before the ink was dry on the Declaration of Independance. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..." The enslavement of African-Americans, the decimation of entire Native American populations etc. took place under a government that declared itself using these words.

Horrible horrible things have been done in the name of issuing unconditional allegiance. Classical organizational theory has sent millions of people efficiently to slaughter and all they were doing was upholding "oaths" to their government and superiors. NO THANK YOU!

By the way, don't assume you know my political stance on anything. Frankly, I could care less about gun control. Have guns, don't have guns. It's all gravy. Just don't force me to use them against the person you pre-ordained the enemy.

Actually, I'm not a big fan of oaths like that myself and I certainly don't want to blindly follow government. I was simply saying that "honoring the oath you took in good faith" is a right and honest thing to do. The fact that oaths sometimes make you say retarded things is a whole different story.