Minarets are now constitutionally banned in Switzerland

[alienlovechild 75]

I don't have that much explaining to do. I was thinking one thing and posting about another and posted the wrong date. Still, I'm not sure how that makes your point, as your first reaction was as knee-jerk a you accused me of being. And, there was no complaint, just a statement of fact. Are you denying the history of this country did not include forced, bloody conversion of Native Americans to Christianity? In that case, it's clear that you have no idea about world history either, spouting that old canard about Islam being spread by the sword. When your idiot popes were proclaiming war on Jews and Muslims, it was the Muslims who took in the Jews to save them. Open a history book, not just some hateful website, for a change.

If you have doubts about what you can do in any one of the 23 predominately Muslim countries (which are not mine, btw), then you should go to some of them and see for yourself. There are churches and even synagogues in the Muslim world. Don't think that the entire Muslim community is defined by the KSA, coz that's just ignorant. BTW, I have been all over and criticized Muslim practices for a living for 20 years. I'm still free and alive. If I go to Great Britain, on the other hand, and criticise Islam, I could go to jail for not being PC.

If I have to explain the how 1st Amendment affects the practice of religion in America, it's going to be a sharp learning curve for you. There's nothing knee-jerk in noting how the Constitution has largely been sucessful in creating the most religious and arguably most developed nation in a little more than 200 years. The Indians got the shaft as surely as many get the shaft in Islamic countries now but you don't go there. Conversions? Obviously you don't know that Spain was colonized for 700 years and the Balkans for 400 years by Islamic powers yet I must concede the 75 years the Crusaders ran Jerusalem for example. It's idiots like me that had a hand in protecting Bosnian Muslims we didn't get much thanks for that bit of more recent history. Of course there are limited numbers of dimmi in the Islamic world but they're under "protection" of the state and respected as people of the book but the most Jews got the boot and Christian numbers are dropping.

I've been to the more moderate Muslim countries like Indonesia and Malaysia and been in strong Muslim minority countries like India and have ever never said all Muslims are bad. I'm curious. Where and how did you criticize Islam? You're a believer and you really think I could speak freely in which countries?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Yes because Islam has no history of forced conversion do they?

Switzerland like most other first world countries does not have anything goes first amendment. You go to their country, you play by their rules. Same way when I go to Muslim countries I play by their rules or end up arrested and possibly beaten to death.

Christianity has no history of forced conversion, does it?

No one is ever arrested and beaten to death in the west. No, that doesn't happen.

The interesting thing is this thread is about religious intolerance in Switzerland, not the ME. Has that been forgotten? It certainly is being conveniently ignored.

Is tolerance of countries in the ME towards other religions where the bar is held for Switzerland? If so, Switzerland has a long way to go downward.

Since you have no real knowledge of the ME, I will take that as the usual rhetoric.

If that's all you got, you ain't got much. Christianity is the most widespread religion in the world due to the violence Christians did in God's name during their conquests in the New World. Conversions were forced on African slaves, Natives and Australian aborigines, not to mention Southern Africans. The level of violence in the name of Jesus is often denied, but easily confirmed.

Tell me not all Muslims are violent barbarians and I will agree with you. Tell me that modern day Christians are anywhere near as barbaric as Muslims and you know that is a lie. Something I am sure is just as forbidden under Islam as it is under Christianity and Judaism.

muslims are allowed to lie to kufr during times of war.

Islam discourages lying except to save your life.

Actually I have been to ME. Granted it was briefly. My own experience was mostly ok, although at a shop I was cut off by a lovely man in a white robe who felt no need to be patient for the infidel ahead of him in line. Nice! I assure you I was quite impressed by his assumed right to rudeness, me being a non-human and all.

However, my sister in law is having a huge issue going back to her home country, why? Because non-Muslims are not really people at all, with rights etc.

[Heracles 417]

Actually I have been to ME. Granted it was briefly. My own experience was mostly ok, although at a shop I was cut off by a lovely man in a white robe who felt no need to be patient for the infidel ahead of him in line. Nice! I assure you I was quite impressed by his assumed right to rudeness, me being a non-human and all.

However, my sister in law is having a huge issue going back to her home country, why? Because non-Muslims are not really people at all, with rights etc.

Anyone who has gone to the middle east knows you play by their rules. An Aussie is going to prison for simply say #######, the second an undercover officer grabbed him.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Booyah!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I don't have that much explaining to do. I was thinking one thing and posting about another and posted the wrong date. Still, I'm not sure how that makes your point, as your first reaction was as knee-jerk a you accused me of being. And, there was no complaint, just a statement of fact. Are you denying the history of this country did not include forced, bloody conversion of Native Americans to Christianity? In that case, it's clear that you have no idea about world history either, spouting that old canard about Islam being spread by the sword. When your idiot popes were proclaiming war on Jews and Muslims, it was the Muslims who took in the Jews to save them. Open a history book, not just some hateful website, for a change.

If you have doubts about what you can do in any one of the 23 predominately Muslim countries (which are not mine, btw), then you should go to some of them and see for yourself. There are churches and even synagogues in the Muslim world. Don't think that the entire Muslim community is defined by the KSA, coz that's just ignorant. BTW, I have been all over and criticized Muslim practices for a living for 20 years. I'm still free and alive. If I go to Great Britain, on the other hand, and criticise Islam, I could go to jail for not being PC.

If I have to explain the how 1st Amendment affects the practice of religion in America, it's going to be a sharp learning curve for you. There's nothing knee-jerk in noting how the Constitution has largely been sucessful in creating the most religious and arguably most developed nation in a little more than 200 years. The Indians got the shaft as surely as many get the shaft in Islamic countries now but you don't go there. Conversions? Obviously you don't know that Spain was colonized for 700 years and the Balkans for 400 years by Islamic powers yet I must concede the 75 years the Crusaders ran Jerusalem for example. It's idiots like me that had a hand in protecting Bosnian Muslims we didn't get much thanks for that bit of more recent history. Of course there are limited numbers of dimmi in the Islamic world but they're under "protection" of the state and respected as people of the book but the most Jews got the boot and Christian numbers are dropping.

I've been to the more moderate Muslim countries like Indonesia and Malaysia and been in strong Muslim minority countries like India and have ever never said all Muslims are bad. I'm curious. Where and how did you criticize Islam? You're a believer and you really think I could speak freely in which countries?

No learning curve necessary. The first amendment was just the beginning; there were plenty of atrocities committed in the US since then. Like aj mentioned, you have to think of a person as human before you allow them human rights. There is a lot of case law accumulated behind that amendment to define what religion is, what freedom of religion means and how it should be applied. Natives and slaves, not to mention early Muslim immigrants were often forced to convert to Christianity in the US. I know about Muslims in Iberia. I also know about Christians and Jews in North Africa.

I have a Ph.D in Islamic history and law, and I worked in the ME and North Africa for 20 years as a human rights advocate, advocating new laws and defending Muslims and non-Muslims alike against oppressive practices that were considered to be Islamic. Before that, I lived in South America defending Native cultures against Christian missionaries who wanted to exploit them. I work everyday with the same bunch of lawyers taht went through that with me. I know the ME and I know the truth from the likes of Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer, who are held out as experts on Islam by the know nothing media here.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

You're a believer and you really think I could speak freely in which countries?

You can't even depict Mohammed the prophet in a cartoon in the US because it might make the cwybabies mad.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Actually I have been to ME. Granted it was briefly. My own experience was mostly ok, although at a shop I was cut off by a lovely man in a white robe who felt no need to be patient for the infidel ahead of him in line. Nice! I assure you I was quite impressed by his assumed right to rudeness, me being a non-human and all.

However, my sister in law is having a huge issue going back to her home country, why? Because non-Muslims are not really people at all, with rights etc.

Anyone who has gone to the middle east knows you play by their rules. An Aussie is going to prison for simply say #######, the second an undercover officer grabbed him.

That is precisely why I said nothing at all to this A-hole. But the truth is, to a true Muslim, others are not even human. Sofyyia can try to deny that, but of course that would be a war time lie.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Now, if you can justify the banning of minarets on the basis of aesthetics, and it's their country, they can do what they want, why don't you say the same about churches in the KSA and how it's their country and they can do what they want?

Double standard?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I remember waiting for my connecting flight at Dhaka airport. A flight to somewhere in the ME was going to take off soon and as most know, Bangladesh is a source of a lot of uneducated manual labor destined for the ME. 4 such people came up to me to ask me if I could read English and if they could read a slip of paper they had and explain it to them. I speak Bangla as well so I did what I could to help. In each 4 case, they eventually got around to asking my name and when they heard it (unmistakably Hindu) they literally turned away and walked away without even a thank you.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Actually I have been to ME. Granted it was briefly. My own experience was mostly ok, although at a shop I was cut off by a lovely man in a white robe who felt no need to be patient for the infidel ahead of him in line. Nice! I assure you I was quite impressed by his assumed right to rudeness, me being a non-human and all.

However, my sister in law is having a huge issue going back to her home country, why? Because non-Muslims are not really people at all, with rights etc.

Anyone who has gone to the middle east knows you play by their rules. An Aussie is going to prison for simply say #######, the second an undercover officer grabbed him.

That is precisely why I said nothing at all to this A-hole. But the truth is, to a true Muslim, others are not even human. Sofyyia can try to deny that, but of course that would be a war time lie.

I can deny it because it's true, but you're too warped, twisted and uneducated to consider that. Not my problem.

I remember waiting for my connecting flight at Dhaka airport. A flight to somewhere in the ME was going to take off soon and as most know, Bangladesh is a source of a lot of uneducated manual labor destined for the ME. 4 such people came up to me to ask me if I could read English and if they could read a slip of paper they had and explain it to them. I speak Bangla as well so I did what I could to help. In each 4 case, they eventually got around to asking my name and when they heard it (unmistakably Hindu) they literally turned away and walked away without even a thank you.

Stick around here. The chances you'll get shot at a party or a coffee shop are increasing. Now, that's rude!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Actually I have been to ME. Granted it was briefly. My own experience was mostly ok, although at a shop I was cut off by a lovely man in a white robe who felt no need to be patient for the infidel ahead of him in line. Nice! I assure you I was quite impressed by his assumed right to rudeness, me being a non-human and all.

However, my sister in law is having a huge issue going back to her home country, why? Because non-Muslims are not really people at all, with rights etc.

Anyone who has gone to the middle east knows you play by their rules. An Aussie is going to prison for simply say #######, the second an undercover officer grabbed him.

That is precisely why I said nothing at all to this A-hole. But the truth is, to a true Muslim, others are not even human. Sofyyia can try to deny that, but of course that would be a war time lie.

I can deny it because it's true, but you're too warped, twisted and uneducated to consider that. Not my problem.

I remember waiting for my connecting flight at Dhaka airport. A flight to somewhere in the ME was going to take off soon and as most know, Bangladesh is a source of a lot of uneducated manual labor destined for the ME. 4 such people came up to me to ask me if I could read English and if they could read a slip of paper they had and explain it to them. I speak Bangla as well so I did what I could to help. In each 4 case, they eventually got around to asking my name and when they heard it (unmistakably Hindu) they literally turned away and walked away without even a thank you.

Stick around here. The chances you'll get shot at a party or a coffee shop are increasing. Now, that's rude!

By a group of young men who think they're re-enacting a scene from the matrix, no less.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You're a believer and you really think I could speak freely in which countries?

You can't even depict Mohammed the prophet in a cartoon in the US because it might make the cwybabies mad.

Why should any revered religious figure be mocked? Is that what passes for culture, modernity and civility today? Piss Jesus, yea, that's the ticket.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

You're a believer and you really think I could speak freely in which countries?

You can't even depict Mohammed the prophet in a cartoon in the US because it might make the cwybabies mad.

Why should any revered religious figure be mocked? Is that what passes for culture, modernity and civility today? Piss Jesus, yea, that's the ticket.

Because no religious figure is revered by all and you're essentially forcing your reverence down everyones throats when you so violently insist on your so-called prophet not being mocked.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You're a believer and you really think I could speak freely in which countries?

You can't even depict Mohammed the prophet in a cartoon in the US because it might make the cwybabies mad.

Why should any revered religious figure be mocked? Is that what passes for culture, modernity and civility today? Piss Jesus, yea, that's the ticket.

Because no religious figure is revered by all and you're essentially forcing your reverence down everyones throats when you so violently insist on your so-called prophet not being mocked.

I don't buy tyranny of the irreligious either.

[Heracles 417]

That is precisely why I said nothing at all to this A-hole. But the truth is, to a true Muslim, others are not even human. Sofyyia can try to deny that, but of course that would be a war time lie.

I have Muslim friends and I know that for a fact.

My ancestor were Greek, so maybe Sofiyya can explain the 400 years of slavery we endured by them. Someone who knows about history would know that the slaves under the Ottoman empire were not cotton pickers or people made to sit at the back of the bus, they were tortured and burned alive.

Numerous orthodox saints came about from being turned into ground flesh or chopped up, while alive, in order to renounce Christianity for Islam. Or how about the Ottoman genocide which occurred 94 years ago? Or the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1975, yet Americans are the imperialist.

Some seem to have a short memory when they butchered an entire race but never seem to let go that someone played a part in a coup.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Booyah!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

That is precisely why I said nothing at all to this A-hole. But the truth is, to a true Muslim, others are not even human. Sofyyia can try to deny that, but of course that would be a war time lie.

I have Muslim friends and I know that for a fact.

My ancestor were Greek, so maybe Sofiyya can explain the 400 years of slavery we endured by them. Anyone knows anything about history knows that that slaves under the Ottoman empire were not cotton pickers or people made to sit at the back of the bus, they were tortured and burned alive.

Numerous orthodox saints came about from being turned into ground flesh or chopped up, while alive, in order to renounce Christianity for Islam. Or how about the Ottoman genocide which occurred 94 years ago? Or the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1975, yet Americans are the imperialist.

Some seem to have a short memory when they butchered an entire country but never seem to let go that someone played a part in a coup.

With Muslim friends like that, you don't need enemies.

Only Muslims had slaves? Turkey has been secular since Ataturk. Greeks fvcked young boys for fun.

When it's your country, you can do what you want.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Sofiyya