Karzai to Taliban: Lay Down Your Weapons

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Karzai to Taliban: Lay Down Your Weapons - yeah right.

Karzai must have gotten one of these and believe it really works.

Edited November 27, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Love the title

[Nagishkaw 510]

[slim 1,525]

It sounds a lot like something I heard here last year - "Si se puede!"

Same old propaganda BS. Do you think he's really considering an Afghanistan without the Taliban? I'm sure he is because as long as there is a Taliban, he's holding that "get outta Afghanistan free card." If he's lucky, the U.S. will still honor it when it's time to pull out.

If not, he's toast!

[meowmeowmeow 1]

thats such bullsh!t. he needs the taliban just as much as they need him to justify their activities. because he is a tool. screw them both, you gotta pity the normal folk out there

[slim 1,525]

you gotta pity the normal folk out there

By "normal folk" do you mean poppy growers or goat herders?

Sure, there are "normal folk" in some of the cities, but they're still at the mercy of whichever war lord is in power that day.

How do we save these "normal folk?"

[meowmeowmeow 1]

you gotta pity the normal folk out there

By "normal folk" do you mean poppy growers or goat herders?

Sure, there are "normal folk" in some of the cities, but they're still at the mercy of whichever war lord is in power that day.

How do we save these "normal folk?"

who is "we" and from what i know, most of those poppy growers are taliban or taliban sympathisers.

[slim 1,525]

"We" is the U.S. and you still didn't offer up how we save these "normal folk."

[meowmeowmeow 1]

"We" is the U.S. and you still didn't offer up how we save these "normal folk."

i don't have this answer. i do have some ideas, but they are pipe dreams.

what is your answer?

by the way, who appointed the US the fixer of the world?

besides the fact that they went into afghanistan and are mucking things up, what can the US do? the UN is a joke and really in the end it's up to these people to fix their own problems. besides aid, not sure what anyone can do.

Edited November 28, 2009 by enraptured

[slim 1,525]

I think we may be on the same level - pipe dreams.

There's a reason Alexander the Great's guys pulled out. There's a reason the Soviets pulled out. That same exact reason will be the reason we pull out.

But, I don't know, with all the talk of pipe dreams here in the U.S., maybe Afghanistan can catch some of that residual smoke!

[meowmeowmeow 1]

I think we may be on the same level - pipe dreams.

There's a reason Alexander the Great's guys pulled out. There's a reason the Soviets pulled out. That same exact reason will be the reason we pull out.

But, I don't know, with all the talk of pipe dreams here in the U.S., maybe Afghanistan can catch some of that residual smoke!

let's be frank. take a good look at the makeup of afghanistan itself. it's got a few major ethnic groups there: like pashtuns, tajiks, uzbeks, etc. first of all, there are issues between all these groups. second, it's crippled in regards to basic infrastructure, education, openness, "democracy" (this is such a joke to me because democracy doesn't work here or in most western countries, what these people need is just openness to seeing new things and trying new things, not effin democracy). third, the taliban..........

this is a tricky issue. i don't know what most people know but from what i know the taliban was created supposedly by pakistan's secret service. i'd like to know, first of all, if this is something that perhaps can be done: working with pakistan's peeps to simmer things down.

but see.............the taliban in my opinion are kept in power for a number of reasons. people like karzai NEED them there so that they can justify their own actions and presence, which honestly at the moment are not much. next, the fact that the taliban is heavily involved with the heroin trade speaks volumes. this means that outside forces like the US (yes) deal with them in regards to supply and demand when it comes to this drug. the same sh!t happened in vietnam when the US was trafficking stuff from there to here. look it up.

so, afghanistan's problems are not only internal, but external as well...external being the corruption, hypocracy, and greed of our own people also getting involved in this problem.

so what to do?

and what's the deal with the taliban at this point anyways? is it one group? is it many groups affiliated with this "main group"? i ask this because i'm kind of skeptical about all these people fighting for the same thing at this point. i'm sure there's a couple of warlords tossed in there who are just jerks trying to get power and money too.

sorry for the novel. peace.

[slim 1,525]

from what i know the taliban was created supposedly by pakistan's secret service. i'd like to know, first of all, if this is something that perhaps can be done: working with pakistan's peeps to simmer things down.

You mean "created by the CIA through Pakistan's secret service?

We're still working through Pakistan to resolve the situation. Not because it's effective, but because we're so hated over there that as long as it appears to be Pakistan doing the "changing" it will be easier to accept. Well, that and the whole plausible deniability aspect of it all. Once we pull out and/or Pakistan implodes into civil war also, we'll have nothing to do with any of it. It was all Pakistan's fault. We tried.

so what to do?

Simple, drive your SUV to Wal-Mart, eat a Big Mac, and act like it's not even happening.

and what's the deal with the taliban at this point anyways? is it one group? is it many groups affiliated with this "main group"? i ask this because i'm kind of skeptical about all these people fighting for the same thing at this point. i'm sure there's a couple of warlords tossed in there who are just jerks trying to get power and money too.

Taliban is a big group of many groups. It's the generic "bad guy" in that region. But, since they're not American, they're also the generic "good guy" in that region. Like you alluded to earlier in your post, with the whole drug thing going on, there's no good answer and the real truth is both sides need each other to perpetuate the money scheme.

[meowmeowmeow 1]

You mean "created by the CIA through Pakistan's secret service?

LOL ;) yeah maybe....touche.

We're still working through Pakistan to resolve the situation. Not because it's effective, but because we're so hated over there that as long as it appears to be Pakistan doing the "changing" it will be easier to accept. Well, that and the whole plausible deniability aspect of it all. Once we pull out and/or Pakistan implodes into civil war also, we'll have nothing to do with any of it. It was all Pakistan's fault. We tried.

i agree. i am curious though about one thing. i gotta find the article, but i recently read that pakistan was moving over 100,000 troops to its eastern borders to situate themselves there and be prepared for an imminent attack from india. obama courting the indian PM recently got me thinking: how does the US expect to keep decent relations with both countries. especially when the both of them are armed to the teeth in nuclear weapons?

Simple, drive your SUV to Wal-Mart, eat a Big Mac, and act like it's not even happening.

ah well....

Taliban is a big group of many groups. It's the generic "bad guy" in that region. But, since they're not American, they're also the generic "good guy" in that region. Like you alluded to earlier in your post, with the whole drug thing going on, there's no good answer and the real truth is both sides need each other to perpetuate the money scheme.

so afghanis are screwed, and so are we, cuz we're paying for this sh~t....

[slim 1,525]

i agree. i am curious though about one thing. i gotta find the article, but i recently read that pakistan was moving over 100,000 troops to its eastern borders to situate themselves there and be prepared for an imminent attack from india. obama courting the indian PM recently got me thinking: how does the US expect to keep decent relations with both countries. especially when the both of them are armed to the teeth in nuclear weapons?

We're trying to keep Pakistan looking left. We can keep India from doing anything through economic sanctions. Provided Pakistani militants don't blow up too many trains in Mumbai and the like, we should be OK for a little while. Either way, Pakistan's days are numbered. If we're all lucky, they'll sort it out. If they don't, expect us to fully back the Taliban once again!

so afghanis are screwed, and so are we, cuz we're paying for this sh~t....

Afhans for sure. Us, not so much. Remember, we reap the benefits of all that heroin and warfare!

[meowmeowmeow 1]

We're trying to keep Pakistan looking left. We can keep India from doing anything through economic sanctions. Provided Pakistani militants don't blow up too many trains in Mumbai and the like, we should be OK for a little while. Either way, Pakistan's days are numbered. If we're all lucky, they'll sort it out. If they don't, expect us to fully back the Taliban once again!

about that train blowing stuff: there were incidents in the past that were rumored to be staged by indians themselves. kind of like the 1998 apartment bombings in moscow that turned out to be a KGB ruse, set up to re-invade chechnya. also, given our panache for covert operations, i'm surprised the US doesn't take that upon itself to do more...well, it's done over two dozen and counting, so far, that i know of at least...

Afhans for sure. Us, not so much. Remember, we reap the benefits of all that heroin and warfare!

the US government benefits from this. Us, the normal people, not so much. why i said we were screwed was because we are the ones essentially paying for the military, etc. to be there.