Gunman Massacres 4 Family Members After Dinner

[Heracles 417]

Forget about ban. Find me one first world country that has gun restrictions, yet has a higher homicide rate than the US.

How about Russia?

First World

Edited November 29, 2009 by Booyah!

[slim 1,533]

That chart above is taken from the very same website that says, "definitions of country types have changed since the end of the Cold War." If that's so, I wonder why Russia isn't included on there.

[Heracles 417]

That chart above is taken from the very same website that says, "definitions of country types have changed since the end of the Cold War." If that's so, I wonder why Russia isn't included on there.

For obvious reasons.

The nominal GDP per capita in Russia is $11,339

The nominal GDP per capita in Aus is $47,498

Russia > 141,909,279 pop > GDP $1,607 trillion

Aus > 22,010,766 pop > GDP $1,013 trillion

Edited November 29, 2009 by Booyah!

[slim 1,533]

Huh. So a country that has 600 trillion more in GDP can't be first world?

[Heracles 417]

Huh. So a country that has 600 trillion more in GDP can't be first world?

$600 billion more. Comma is a decimal in Europe. For a population of 141 million, that is peanuts.

Average wage in Aus is now $1,109 USD per week. How many Russians earn that? Heck how many American earn that? Hey, I understand though, as you have bigger issues like defending guns to deal with rather than prosperity. Ignorance is bliss I guess. If various people actually traveled to other first world countries and saw what they have achieved for themselves while you debate guns, you would realize you guys are foolish. Until then, you have your guns and distrusting the government to cling to.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Booyah!

[slim 1,533]

$600 billion more. Comma is a decimal in Europe.

You typed trillion so I typed trillion.

For a population of 141 million, that is peanuts.

It still doesn't make sense that a country that outproduces another by that much money couldn't be counted as having the same status. Even if you take into account per-capita rates, it's still real money and it's still going somewhere.

Average wage in Aus is now $1,109 USD per week. How many Russians earn that? Heck how many American earn that? Hey, I understand though, as you have bigger issues like defending guns to deal with rather than prosperity. Ignorance is bliss I guess. If various people actually traveled to other first world countries and saw what they have achieved for themselves while you debate guns, you would realize you guys are foolish. Until then, you have your guns and distrusting the government to cling to.

Yep. And you have your strip-searches. Good trade!

[CDAgirlMI 51]

Mr. Big Dog I am shocked you take such a negative stance on guns seeing as (I`m guessing your fiance & not you) is from Ethiopia.

Gun ownership for regular citizens, is practically non existent in most(if not all) African countries......and what happened in places like Sudan, Democratic Republic of the Congo and Ethiopia ...genocide. These people can`t even protect themselves against their own Government!!!

I think it`s You that should take their head out of the sand box.

By the response I am guessing you are the American citizen. No one else in the developed world has that 'protect yourself against the government' line of reasoning.

Interestingly enough, Timothy McVeigh had the same line of reasoning.

Actually, I'm the Canadian. About protecting yourself against the government....that's something(hopefully) will never happen in the U.S.

If someone came into your house to kill your family, do you not think you should be able to protect your family, & what's yours? I sure as hell do. Forget 911 in that case, by the time the cops get there everyone's dead & the killer is off running.

I'm not in favour of selfless acts. But I do believe in self-protection.

[

[justashooter 430]

Guns don't kill. People with guns do.

fixed

If he was hells bent on exterminating his family, he would have found another way to do it. A gun is a tool. It is the idiot holding it that kills.

And I would hold any bet that any such individual couldn't do half the damage if he didn't have a gun. You can shoot and kill 4 people in little time but try and stab 4 people to death with an entire family around. Not likely to happen. That's all I'm saying.

don't make me google it.

there was a case recently in which an entire family of children was killed with a knife by their mother.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Mr. Big Dog I am shocked you take such a negative stance on guns seeing as (I`m guessing your fiance & not you) is from Ethiopia.

Gun ownership for regular citizens, is practically non existent in most(if not all) African countries......and what happened in places like Sudan, Democratic Republic of the Congo and Ethiopia ...genocide. These people can`t even protect themselves against their own Government!!!

I think it`s You that should take their head out of the sand box.

Oh, what a load of garbage. How do you think the current Ethiopian government came to power? Or the previous one? With a violent and well armed overthrow of the existing regimes. Yes, well armed militias took over power in 1974 and then again in 1991. Look at other countries and the story repeats itself over and over. Not many, if any, government has changed by way of elections in that part of the world but armed fighting between the governments and armed militias is the story of the day there. That would be virtually impossible if what you claim here was true as there wouldn't be any armed militias. The problem in Ethiopia and other African nations isn't the lack of guns outside the government, it's actually that there are too damn many of them.

Besides, making an argument based on invalid comparisons (one of the poorest of nations to one of the richest) shows that you don't have any valid argument to make. When comparing the effect of gun ownership and gun violence, compare apples to apples - i.e. developed countries with their peers - rather than first with third world countries. If the only comparison the US can stand up to is that with the least developed of nations, then I'd say that's the best argument against proliferation of firearms within the population.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Guns don't kill. People with guns do.

fixed

If he was hells bent on exterminating his family, he would have found another way to do it. A gun is a tool. It is the idiot holding it that kills.

And I would hold any bet that any such individual couldn't do half the damage if he didn't have a gun. You can shoot and kill 4 people in little time but try and stab 4 people to death with an entire family around. Not likely to happen. That's all I'm saying.

don't make me google it.

there was a case recently in which an entire family of children was killed with a knife by their mother.

The weapon used in the vast majority of multiple homicides is what? A knife? Don't kid yourself and others.

[Peikko 1,575]

Guns don't kill. People with guns do.

fixed

If he was hells bent on exterminating his family, he would have found another way to do it. A gun is a tool. It is the idiot holding it that kills.

And I would hold any bet that any such individual couldn't do half the damage if he didn't have a gun. You can shoot and kill 4 people in little time but try and stab 4 people to death with an entire family around. Not likely to happen. That's all I'm saying.

don't make me google it.

there was a case recently in which an entire family of children was killed with a knife by their mother.

The weapon used in the vast majority of multiple homicides is what? A knife? Don't kid yourself and others.

The victims were 1 and 3 respectively.  Not exactly a comparable crime although equally tragic of course.  

That's what I find the most shocking, these people who want us to respect their right to own guns show such poor judgment when trying to explain why gun ownership is a good thing.  Not exactly wont to inspire confidence in their ability to make good decisions with a gun in their hand.  I especially liked Slim's comment that simply having a gun commands respect - no, it doesn't, being a mature, thinking adult commands respect, an idiot with a gun commands fear from sensible members of society, but not respect. 

Edited November 29, 2009 by Madame Cleo

[slim 1,533]

 I especially liked Slim's comment that simply having a gun commands respect - no, it doesn't, being a mature, thinking adult commands respect, an idiot with a gun commands fear from sensible members of society, but not respect. 

Hpothetical scenario here, bear with me....

30 mature, thinking adults are sitting in a college classroom and an idiot with a gun enters.

What does maturity have to do with anything?

What should they be thinking?

What is the idiot with the gun commanding?

If you fear something, do you not at least have some respect for it's ability to cause you serious bodily harm or death? Could you, being a sensible, thinking and mature adult also not understand the concept of what capability an idiot with a gun has? And lastly, if you fear an idiot with a gun, why would you not fear being without a gun when there are a whole bunch of idiots with guns? After all, that's sensible!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And lastly, if you fear an idiot with a gun, why would you not fear being without a gun when there are a whole bunch of idiots with guns? After all, that's sensible!

No, not affording every idiot the opportunity to have a gun is what's sensible. More guns don't create more security. The stats show that quite impressively. And life experiences in both environments affirm these stats.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[Heracles 417]

And lastly, if you fear an idiot with a gun, why would you not fear being without a gun when there are a whole bunch of idiots with guns? After all, that's sensible!

No, not affording every idiot the opportunity to have a gun is what's sensible. More guns don't create more security. The stats show that quite impressively. And life experiences in both environments affirm these stats.

I don't know about Germany's gun laws, but assume they are strict. Germany has one of the lowest homicide rates in the developed world. 17th last in the world, out of 140 countries, to be precise.

If you fear something, do you not at least have some respect for it's ability to cause you serious bodily harm or death? Could you, being a sensible, thinking and mature adult also not understand the concept of what capability an idiot with a gun has? And lastly, if you fear an idiot with a gun, why would you not fear being without a gun when there are a whole bunch of idiots with guns? After all, that's sensible!

Why not allow people to have ballistic missiles in their backyard? The right to bear arms is quite a broad term after all.

[HAL 9000 96]

And lastly, if you fear an idiot with a gun, why would you not fear being without a gun when there are a whole bunch of idiots with guns? After all, that's sensible!

No, not affording every idiot the opportunity to have a gun is what's sensible. More guns don't create more security. The stats show that quite impressively. And life experiences in both environments affirm these stats.

Please don't inject sensibility into this debate. Please. Please. Please.