Gunman Massacres 4 Family Members After Dinner

[Peikko 1,575]

Run? He's spot on with what he is saying. The tool designed to kill is always going to wreck more havoc than one that was not designed for the purpose, hence why our troops are equipped with guns not machetes.

As for the tragedy, it is just that, very, very sad.

Sarcasm, u not getz it.

I agree with AJ.

Yeah, I got it and I figured you did. I just get so fed up with the circular logic of the 'guns are just a tool' argument. Guns are the tool for killing people.

[Heracles 417]

How much effort does it take to kill 4 people with some anti-freeze/poison?

This is a horrible thing that happened and unfortunatly there tragedy is being used as some sort of "we need to ban guns" argument.

Use this tragedy??? Since this article was posted by dog, 330 minutes have past. During these 330 minutes, 5.9 Americans have been shot dead. As in killed.

Lets compare this to first world countries that have 21st century laws.

Result of Gun Control

Canada: one person killed every 3,650 minutes

AUS: one person killed every 8,908 minutes

UK: one person killed every 37,542 minutes

New Zealand: one person killed every 52,560 minutes

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

Yeah, I got it and I figured you did. I just get so fed up with the circular logic of the 'guns are just a tool' argument. Guns are the tool for killing people.

Be it a gun or a ballistic missile, they have the same thing in common.

No engineer I know working on these items, has growing azaleas in mind when working on how to make them more powerful and easier to use.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

During these 330 minutes, 5.9 Americans have been shot dead. As in killed.

what about that .1? is part of that one still twitching?

[Heracles 417]

During these 330 minutes, 5.9 Americans have been shot dead. As in killed.

what about that .1? is part of that one still twitching?

I thought that would be the focus of a response. Aka hog sh-t.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

During these 330 minutes, 5.9 Americans have been shot dead. As in killed.

what about that .1? is part of that one still twitching?

I thought that would be the focus of a response. Aka hog sh-t.

maybe it's a liberal that doesn't know it's dead yet..........

[웃 910]

How much effort does it take to kill 4 people with some anti-freeze/poison?

This is a horrible thing that happened and unfortunatly there tragedy is being used as some sort of "we need to ban guns" argument.

Use this tragedy??? Since this article was posted by dog, 330 minutes have past. During these 330 minutes, 5.9 Americans have been shot dead. As in killed.

Lets compare this to first world countries that have 21st century laws.

Result of Gun Control

Canada: one person killed every 3,650 minutes

AUS: one person killed every 8,908 minutes

UK: one person killed every 37,542 minutes

New Zealand: one person killed every 52,560 minutes

The population in the US is 10X that of Canada, and about 15X that of Australia. Does this affect your statistics? And there are only 4 million people in New Zealand.

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

How much effort does it take to kill 4 people with some anti-freeze/poison?

This is a horrible thing that happened and unfortunatly there tragedy is being used as some sort of "we need to ban guns" argument.

Use this tragedy??? Since this article was posted by dog, 330 minutes have past. During these 330 minutes, 5.9 Americans have been shot dead. As in killed.

Lets compare this to first world countries that have 21st century laws.

Result of Gun Control

Canada: one person killed every 3,650 minutes

AUS: one person killed every 8,908 minutes

UK: one person killed every 37,542 minutes

New Zealand: one person killed every 52,560 minutes

The population in the US is 10X that of Canada, and about 15X that of Australia. Does this affect your statistics? And there are only 4 million people in New Zealand.

why ask when there's so much knee jerking going on?

[Heracles 417]

How much effort does it take to kill 4 people with some anti-freeze/poison?

This is a horrible thing that happened and unfortunatly there tragedy is being used as some sort of "we need to ban guns" argument.

Use this tragedy??? Since this article was posted by dog, 330 minutes have past. During these 330 minutes, 5.9 Americans have been shot dead. As in killed.

Lets compare this to first world countries that have 21st century laws.

Result of Gun Control

Canada: one person killed every 3,650 minutes

AUS: one person killed every 8,908 minutes

UK: one person killed every 37,542 minutes

New Zealand: one person killed every 52,560 minutes

The population in the US is 10X that of Canada, and about 15X that of Australia. Does this affect your statistics? And there are only 4 million people in New Zealand.

I see I see. Therefore, it has something to do with population then? Interesting thing about the following is that it matches how hard it it to get firearms in those countries; with the bottom being the hardest.

Murders with firearms

# 1 South Africa: 31,918 - 49 million population

# 2 Colombia: 21,898 - 44 million population

# 3 Thailand: 20,032 - 63 million population

# 4 United States: 9,369 - 303 million population

Murders with firearms (Per Capita)

# 1 South Africa: 71.9782 per 100,000 people

# 2 Colombia: 50.9801 per 100,000 people

# 3 Thailand: 31.2093 per 100,000 people

# 4 Zimbabwe: 4.91736 per 100,000 people

# 5 Mexico: 3.37938 per 100,000 people

# 6 Belarus: 3.21359 per 100,000 people

# 7 Costa Rica: 3.13745 per 100,000 people

# 8 United States: 2.79271 per 100,000 people

# 20 Canada: 0.502972 per 100,000 people

# 27 Australia: 0.293678 per 100,000 people

# 31 New Zealand: 0.173482 per 100,000 people

# 32 United Kingdom: 0.102579 per 100,000 people

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Heracles 417]

Overall Homicide Rate (per 100,000)

China: 2.36

India: 2.82

USA: 5.8

India + China: 2.36 + 2.82 = 5.18 ~ 2.543 billion people vs 0.303 Billion Americans

----------

Some say violence has to do with population Density

Pop density - per sq mile

China: 360

India:890

USA: 80

----------

How about comparing GDP?

GDP - Per Capita

China: $5,970

India:$2,780

USA:$47,440

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[_Simpson_ 250]

Guns don't kill. People do.

I agree.

It takes a lot more effort to kill 4 people with an axe or with a fork than it does with a gun. So while a psychofreak will kill regardless, he likely kills a lot more with a gun. If mini-nukes were legal, you'd likely see psychofreaks like this guy taking out entire towns from time to time. We'll never stop the freaks from going nuts on the rest of us, but we do not need to be giving them the tools to make it easier.

How much effort does it take to kill 4 people with some anti-freeze/poison?

This is a horrible thing that happened and unfortunatly there tragedy is being used as some sort of "we need to ban guns" argument.

Yet, it doesn't happen Simpson. There are all kinds of reasons why shootings are the 'popular' choice for these types of incidents, but not least is a notion of control that the perps of these types of crimes require. Poisoning, blowing people up is not targeted enough, not personal enough if you will. It's easy to say that these people would wreck the same havoc using other means, but demonstrably (look at societies where guns are not readily available and see how many of these types of crimes occur using alternate methods, it just doesn't happen) that simply isn't the case.

Well these methods are popular because of simplicity, but lets face it a man who wants to kill a family will not stop because something is a tad bit easier than pulling a trigger but thats irrelevent because this shooting was hardly a impulse shooting. Now as far as comparing it to other societies thats where it gets complicated. You have to factor in a lot of things, like the size of America or the complex issues that that make up our infrastructure. I think when we start zoning in on the tools that kill we neglect the bigger issue and that is the people that carried out these violent acts.

[Heracles 417]

I won't bother adding UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, as these figures are even worse. Furthermore, these figures demonstrate that no matter how you cut it, gun control works.

[slim 1,533]

And I would hold any bet that any such individual couldn't do half the damage if he didn't have a gun. You can shoot and kill 4 people in little time but try and stab 4 people to death with an entire family around. Not likely to happen. That's all I'm saying.

So the same 17 people in the house would've been more keen to jump up and stop him if he would've only had a knife? Are you saying the 6-year-old or maybe old auntie or even the two twins would've done something more to protect themselves? OK, them aside, there were 12 other people there. How about them?

What about a plane full of able-bodied adults against a couple guys with box cutters?

As someone whom believes I should be able to have a gun, its a price and process I'm willing to undergo to ensure the good guys have the weapons, and not the bad ones.

Who are the good guys?

Also, I didn't see anything about "shall not be infringed... except after a psych eval and proper certification as 'a good guy.'" Plain and simple, you don't license, register, or even ask permission to exercise a Right. Can you imagine the furvor if govt. tried to license your Right to worship? How about a govt.-sponsored reading list. "Only these books are approved. Only certain, "good guys" can read this book." But yet with guns, it's always "well......."

Actually, what the story makes clear is that everyone invited to that family Thanksgiving party should have come fully strapped, ready to shoot this bastards head clean off as soon as he pulled his piece... er...

Well, obviously the 6-year-old couldn't have been strapped, but most everyone else could've. So could most of the people at Virginia Tech that day. Or the people on the plane(s). It only takes ONE armed person to stop a crime.

(And I know you're saying, "yeah, but it only took ONE armed crazy person to do the crime." And you're right. That's all it took. So... if an armed crazy person comes to your Thanksgiving dinner..... what are you going to do?)

Guns are the tool for killing people.

Guns are the most effective tool that's commercially available. If they weren't, we'd see knives, just like in Australia, UK, etc. where "gun bans" have been so effective at stopping gun violence. For some reason though, they don't seem to stop people from killing each other with knives and stuff. Hmmm.

I won't bother adding UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, as these figures are even worse. Furthermore, these figures demonstrate that no matter how you cut it, gun control works.

It sure does! Just ask Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc.

(Standing by for Booyah!'s reply of - "well, you can't argue with the statistics. There are very few gun-related homicides in these countries." And he's right. There are. But dig a little deeper and find out how many homicides by knife and/or other objects, fists, etc. The homicides still happen, they just don't happen by firearm. And just when the statistics start to go down....... GENOCIDE!!!! Almost always flawed-numbers on that stuff, but I think we can all agree there were probably more people killed around WWII timeframe than any other time in recent history. Why? Effective gun control!)

[Sofiyya 1,687]

This was clearly a terrorist act.

[Peikko 1,575]

Guns don't kill. People do.

I agree.

It takes a lot more effort to kill 4 people with an axe or with a fork than it does with a gun. So while a psychofreak will kill regardless, he likely kills a lot more with a gun. If mini-nukes were legal, you'd likely see psychofreaks like this guy taking out entire towns from time to time. We'll never stop the freaks from going nuts on the rest of us, but we do not need to be giving them the tools to make it easier.

How much effort does it take to kill 4 people with some anti-freeze/poison?

This is a horrible thing that happened and unfortunatly there tragedy is being used as some sort of "we need to ban guns" argument.

Yet, it doesn't happen Simpson. There are all kinds of reasons why shootings are the 'popular' choice for these types of incidents, but not least is a notion of control that the perps of these types of crimes require. Poisoning, blowing people up is not targeted enough, not personal enough if you will. It's easy to say that these people would wreck the same havoc using other means, but demonstrably (look at societies where guns are not readily available and see how many of these types of crimes occur using alternate methods, it just doesn't happen) that simply isn't the case.

Well these methods are popular because of simplicity, but lets face it a man who wants to kill a family will not stop because something is a tad bit easier than pulling a trigger but thats irrelevent because this shooting was hardly a impulse shooting. Now as far as comparing it to other societies thats where it gets complicated. You have to factor in a lot of things, like the size of America or the complex issues that that make up our infrastructure. I think when we start zoning in on the tools that kill we neglect the bigger issue and that is the people that carried out these violent acts.

The answers are complex, but the reality is the gun falls into a very specific niche in terms of how it can be employed. The killer doesn't need to be strong, or particulary skillful to kill multiple times in an extremely short space of time while at the same time being able to target specific individuals and have the feeling of control. This is not something that can be accomplished with a knife. The phsycology is important. Comparing it to other societies is complex, however, it is foolish to ignore the reality that these types of crimes do not occur using other types of weapon (or 'tool for the feeble minded).

No one is neglecting the fact that people are carrying out these violent and thoroughly despicable acts. That's another facile argument put forward by the ridiculous arm of the gun lobby, this fallacy that people who wish to place some control over access to guns can't make the connection that the guns don't fire themselves, I mean, come on, duh!

Edited November 28, 2009 by Madame Cleo