Father slain in front of daughter after dog sniffs man's leg

[Heracles 417]

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It's not a question of this country or that, being stupid about Gun laws, we are different countries with different situations and different values.

The conservative view of guns and the second amendment is akin to the liberal view of the first. Aka Bend it in a manner that suits yourself. Context is clearly irrelevant in both cases.

Third world countries also 'assume' they know what they are doing and that they are 'different'.

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

If guns are so bad, Booyah!, then why haven't yours been used in the commission of any crimes?

there's a good reason why........

[Heracles 417]

So that's progress? Giving the police power to strip-search anyone they desire?

Have a look at which country is ranked 2nd in the world for Human Development Index. Aka best country to live in.

Edit: One minute you use knifes as an example, now you switch your strategy as the example no longer suits your agenda.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

So you are saying that you are stupid for owning them? Now I'm confused. If they didn't know better, someone might think you were a hypocrite.

Not really, I bought them initially because I could. However, after being here for a while and seeing murder after murder on the local news alone, l realized just how stupid it is to allow people to own high powered guns.

i see that used quite often - what's a low powered gun?

Go to George Washington's house and have a look for yourself. Your bud natty asked the same question.

those shot a larger projectile than most rifles today........can't you provide an answer?

[Heracles 417]

those shot a larger projectile than most rifles today........can't you provide an answer?

You mean a single shooter that took a good 30 seconds to load between each shot.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[Ban Hammer 13,641]

those shot a larger projectile than most rifles today........can't you provide an answer?

You mean a single shooter that took a good 30 seconds to load between each shot.

we still have single shot pistols, rifles, and shotguns today. reload time may be about half of what you listed above, but if one hits the target, what's the need for reloading?

[slim 1,533]

Have a look at which country is ranked 2nd in the world for Human Development Index. Aka best country to live in.

Then why aren't Americans fleeing this country to move there. Also, why aren't there millions and millions of people trying to immigrate there?

Edit: One minute you use knifes as an example, now you switch your strategy as the example no longer suits your agenda.

Overall homicide rates unchanged even after gun control and increased police power are most certainly linked. They also both still serve my agenda.

I guess it's OK for you to live in a country where people can kill you with knives (but not guns) and the police have the right to strip-search you for absolutely no reason.

Not in the U.S. of A., buddy.

[Heracles 417]

Have a look at which country is ranked 2nd in the world for Human Development Index. Aka best country to live in.

Then why aren't Americans fleeing this country to move there. Also, why aren't there millions and millions of people trying to immigrate there?

Edit: One minute you use knifes as an example, now you switch your strategy as the example no longer suits your agenda.

Overall homicide rates unchanged even after gun control and increased police power are most certainly linked. They also both still serve my agenda.

I guess it's OK for you to live in a country where people can kill you with knives (but not guns) and the police have the right to strip-search you for absolutely no reason.

Not in the U.S. of A., buddy.

You have missed a lot over the months. Cannot be bothered repeating it. Millions are trying to migrate there actually. However, due to their strict immigration policies, it's extremely hard to get in.

Actually if you read above, the homicide rate prior to the gun restriction was 1.8 (thanks Spook), which has now dropped to 1.2. Aka as 33% reduction since the gun ban. 1996 to 2008. Once this new search anyone in hot-spot areas law goes into affect, the deaths related to knifes will drop too. Australia will eventually get to under one. Then what will you say... I am sure that will also not be good enough.

Your knife argument is a straw man argument anyway. To even suggest they are the same is ridiculous. I won't bother posting the difference as they are just too graphic.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[slim 1,533]

You have missed a lot over the months. Cannot be bothered repeating it. Millions are trying to migrate there actually. However, due to their strict immigration policies, it's extremely hard to get in.

By your argument though, Americans should be the ones trying to leave their country with 5.8/100,000 homicide rates and low hourly wages to go to AUS because things are so much better there. I may've missed a lot, but it seems like most Americans are trying to stay here.

Actually if you read above, the homicide rate prior to the gun restriction was 1.8 (thanks Spook), which has now dropped to 1.2. Aka as 33% reduction since the gun ban. 1996 to 2008. Once this new search anyone in hot-spot areas law goes into affect, the deaths related to knifes will drop too. Australia will eventually get to under one. Then what will you say... I am sure that will also not be good enough.

Your knife argument is a straw man argument anyway. To even suggest they are the same is ridiculous.

It was 1.2 last year. Not the average, only last year. Check the average. I'll give you a little credit though, it has dropped .2/100,000 since the more restrictive gun laws.

Over time, it may go down even more. Sticking with that speculation (and I'll go with it too) you may have less than 1/100,000 in a few years. AWESOME! But, then again, your police can also strip-search anyone for no reason at all.

Good trade!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

those shot a larger projectile than most rifles today........can't you provide an answer?

You mean a single shooter that took a good 30 seconds to load between each shot.

we still have single shot pistols, rifles, and shotguns today. reload time may be about half of what you listed above, but if one hits the target, what's the need for reloading?

One shot, one kill.

[Heracles 417]

By your argument though, Americans should be the ones trying to leave their country with 5.8/100,000 homicide rates and low hourly wages to go to AUS because things are so much better there. I may've missed a lot, but it seems like most Americans are trying to stay here.

I cannot speak for Americans. Heck in the mind of most people here alone you are apparently still the envy of the world, which is just not true. okay, might be the envy of second and third world countries but certainly not any other first world country. As I said, you missed a lot while you were teaching people to shoot.

It was 1.2 last year. Not the average, only last year. Check the average. I'll give you a little credit though, it has dropped .2/100,000 since the more restrictive gun laws.

Over time, it may go down even more. Sticking with that speculation (and I'll go with it too) you may have less than 1/100,000 in a few years. AWESOME! But, then again, your police can also strip-search anyone for no reason at all.

Good trade!

Yes it dropped from 1.8 to 1.2. Aka a reduction. Even if it had dropped from 1.8 to 1.79, that is still a reduction.

I'll give you the quick run down since you have been busy teaching people how to shoot. Have a look at this forum alone and ask how many of those from first world countries would migrate here had it not been for their spouse. Furthermore, go to any international forum of those in first world countries and ask them the same thing. Ask them what they think of your freedom and what they think of the second amendment. Now I am not saying you even need to care what they think but it is what it is. As my very very good friend scandal once insinuated, others tend to copy the successful and what they like. Interesting that few if any have used word for word the US constitution or even have the US attitude towards things like guns. Well none actually. We even use a different system of government, known as the parliament. That's w hole other story altogether though.

those shot a larger projectile than most rifles today........can't you provide an answer?

You mean a single shooter that took a good 30 seconds to load between each shot.

we still have single shot pistols, rifles, and shotguns today. reload time may be about half of what you listed above, but if one hits the target, what's the need for reloading?

No sh-t hey. What about two 16 shoot 0.40 cal semi-automatics that can be reload in 5 seconds? That is, with another loaded 16 round clips. Did they have those too back then? As I recall it took 30 seconds and over to reload between a single shot back then.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

It was 1.2 last year. Not the average, only last year. Check the average. I'll give you a little credit though, it has dropped .2/100,000 since the more restrictive gun laws.

Over time, it may go down even more. Sticking with that speculation (and I'll go with it too) you may have less than 1/100,000 in a few years. AWESOME! But, then again, your police can also strip-search anyone for no reason at all.

Good trade!

And that .2 per 100,000 works out to approx. 40 less homicides per year. After taking 650,000 + guns out of the citizens hands. A stunning success. And violent crime rose by double digits during the same time frame. Irrefutable poof that guns are evil, not the people that use them.

[Heracles 417]

And that .2 per 100,000 works out to approx. 40 less homicides per year.

0.6 actually; obtained from your link too.

After taking 650,000 + guns out of the citizens hands. A stunning success. And violent crime rose by double digits during the same time frame. Irrefutable poof that guns are evil, not the people that use them.

In 1997-1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia.

Source: Trends and Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice No. 151: The licensing and registration status of firearms used in homicide. Australian Institute of Criminology. ISBN 0-642-24162-7; ISSN 0817-8542.

We all know who is committing, by a large majority, the homicides in the states. Or are you going to backpedal on this too?

US Homicide rate: (Per 100,000)

Whites: 4.8

Blacks: 36.9

Source: FBI, Supplementary Homicide Reports, 1976-2005.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[slim 1,533]

I cannot speak for Americans. Heck in the mind of most people here alone you are apparently still the envy of the world, which is just not true. okay, might be the envy of second and third world countries but certainly not any other first world country. As I said, you missed a lot while you were teaching people to shoot.

Apparently I missed a lot of inaccurate opinions of an Aussie trapped in the U.S. who wishes the U.S. was as good as his home country. I wonder if his spouse is desiring to go to AUS.

Yes it dropped from 1.8 to 1.2. Aka a reduction. Even if it had dropped from 1.8 to 1.79, that is still a reduction.

Check your statistics again. It didn't go from 1.8 to 1.2. It was only 1.2 last year. The average is still around 1.5 and that 1.8 figure was from a different source. Taken as a whole, averaged together from all sources cited so far - YES, there has been a reduction in homicides in AUS. You are correct. But, what hasn't happened is a significant reduction one would expect from strict gun control laws. I guess you're still waiting for "all" the guns to be taken away from "all" the "bad guys."

I'll give you the quick run down since you have been busy teaching people how to shoot. Have a look at this forum alone and ask how many of those from first world countries would migrate here had it not been for their spouse. Furthermore, go to any international forum of those in first world countries and ask them the same thing. Ask them what they think of your freedom and what they think of the second amendment. Now I am not saying you even need to care what they think but it is what it is. As my very very good friend scandal once insinuated, others tend to copy the successful and what they like. Interesting that few if any have used word for word the US constitution or even have the US attitude towards things like guns. Well none actually. We even use a different system of government, known as the parliament. That's w hole other story altogether though.

And that has what to do with any of this? Also, those who moved here from other second and first world countries could very easily move there with their American spouse. Why haven't they done that?

No sh-t hey. What about 16 shoot semi-automatics? Did they have those back then too?

They didn't have those.... but they had cannons. The most powerful, technologically advanced weaponry available at the time and it was in the hands of civilians.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

And that .2 per 100,000 works out to approx. 40 less homicides per year.

0.6 actually; obtained from your link too.

After taking 650,000 + guns out of the citizens hands. A stunning success. And violent crime rose by double digits during the same time frame. Irrefutable poof that guns are evil, not the people that use them.

In 1997-1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia.

Source: Trends and Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice No. 151: The licensing and registration status of firearms used in homicide. Australian Institute of Criminology. ISBN 0-642-24162-7; ISSN 0817-8542.

We all know who is committing, by a large majority, the homicides in the states. Or are you going to backpedal on this too?

US Homicide rate: (Per 100,000)

Whites: 4.8

Blacks: 36.9

Source: FBI, Supplementary Homicide Reports, 1976-2005.

This isn't a race issue. It's gun control in Australia that proves that it has only had a miniscule effect on the homicide rate. Fact. Circle talk, change the subject, etc etc, it's a fact.