Father slain in front of daughter after dog sniffs man's leg

[SuperDuper! 230]

I admit I am impressed with Booyah's and Spook's passion and determination for such a raucous topic such as gun control. I think to relax they do side bar debates of abortion and religion.

The trouble is, NO ONE has ever swayed anyone in such arguments and debates, in the history of mankind.

How fun it would be to see one of you guys say, "Wow, your insight just gave me an epiphany. You have convinced me that you are right and I am wrong. Thanks for straightening me out on the matter!"

I'm not trying to sway anyone. I merely point out ones flawed logic and supported my stance with a multitude of supporting evidence.

Well, whatever you like to call it is fine. But ultimately in a debate or argument, the prize is to get your "opponent" to acknowledge your viewpoint as correct, or at least to give it a nod and VALIDATION. We all seek validation in life, dont we?

[Heracles 417]

I did your math for you. Homicides in Australia decreased by 50-70 per year after eliminating over 650K guns. Fact. The murder rate in the US has nothing to do with this. When you lose, you resort to name calling. I'm sticking to the facts. You refuse to because they make you look foolish.

You're sticking to the facts.

Didn't realize there was an insult here.

POPULATION

US : 303 million

Aus : 21 million

~ US has 14.4 times the population

MURDERED BY MEANS OF FIREARMS

USA: 9,369

AUS: 59

~ US has 158 times the homicide rate by means of firearms.

------

"but but What about homicide by any other means; like rubber duckies"

OVERALL HOMICIDE RATES

US: 16,204

AUS: 302

~ US has 53 times the overall homicide rate of Australia

-----------

SUMMARY

-----------

Homicide By Means of Firearms

Based on population difference, the US homicide rate would have to be reduced to 873 to be the equivalent.

~ would have to be reduced by 91% to be on par with Australia.

Overall Homicide Rates

Based on population difference, the US homicide rate would have to be reduced to 4,348 to be the equivalent (on par).

~ would have to be reduced by 73% to be on par with Australia.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I admit I am impressed with Booyah's and Spook's passion and determination for such a raucous topic such as gun control. I think to relax they do side bar debates of abortion and religion.

The trouble is, NO ONE has ever swayed anyone in such arguments and debates, in the history of mankind.

How fun it would be to see one of you guys say, "Wow, your insight just gave me an epiphany. You have convinced me that you are right and I am wrong. Thanks for straightening me out on the matter!"

I'm not trying to sway anyone. I merely point out ones flawed logic and supported my stance with a multitude of supporting evidence.

Well, whatever you like to call it is fine. But ultimately in a debate or argument, the prize is to get your "opponent" to acknowledge your viewpoint as correct, or at least to give it a nod and VALIDATION. We all seek validation in life, dont we?

I am quite comfortable with myself in the real world. This is entertaining.

[Heracles 417]

You keep posting the same tired numbers over and over. You are correct, there's been a slight decline in overall homicides in AUS - but that's been ongoing since the sixties. Same thing's also happened in the U.S. But you like to add that it's because of stricter gun control laws, and that's just not accurate.

So what reduced their overall homicide rate between 1995 (year prior to gun ban) to 2008 by 33%?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[spookyturtle 9,465]

~ US has 158 times the homicide rate by means of firearms.

Not arguing that, it makes perfect sense. More guns = more death by guns. Simple fact.

~ US has 53 times the overall homicide rate of Australia

Not per-capita. See, you forgot to do the math again. U.S. has about a 5.3/100,000 average homicide rate. AUS has about a 1.4/100,000 average homicide rate. By my calculations that's only about a 3.78 times larger homicide rate. If the population is 14 times as large, why is the homicide rate only 3.78 times as large, especially with all the guns?

You keep posting the same tired numbers over and over. You are correct, there's been a slight decline in overall homicides in AUS - but that's been ongoing since the sixties. Same thing's also happened in the U.S. But you like to add that it's because of stricter gun control laws, and that's just not accurate.

So what reduced their overall homicide rate between 1995 (year prior to gun ban) to 2008?

50 deaths less due to 650K less guns. Explain the success.

[SuperDuper! 230]

The trouble is, NO ONE has ever swayed anyone in such arguments and debates, in the history of mankind.

How fun it would be to see one of you guys say, "Wow, your insight just gave me an epiphany. You have convinced me that you are right and I am wrong. Thanks for straightening me out on the matter!"

[/size]

I am quite comfortable with myself in the real world. This is entertaining.

Ok then, go in for the kill and knock his block off. He laughs at your facts. FINISH HIM!

Oops, wrong pic!

[Heracles 417]

50 deaths less due to 650K less guns. Explain the success.

What's your point with that? Their rate was already low. Hence the reduction will be low.

Yes, civilized first world countries try to reduce their rates to zero. Those of us from other first would countries get it though.

As illustrated above, the United States would need to reduce its homicide by means of firearms by 91% to be on par with Australia's 59 for the year.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!

[spookyturtle 9,465]

50 deaths less due to 650K less guns. Explain the success.

What's your point with that? Their rate was already low. Hence the number will be low.

Yes, civilized first world countries try to reduce their rates to zero. Those of us from other first would countries get it though.

My point is eliminating firearms from the general population had a minimal effect on the homicide rate. I don't know any simpler way to say it. You are what you are. Change the subject again. Between here and the America thread you have proved your intelligence and education. No wonder why you are so isolated and lonely in real life.

Edited November 28, 2009 by spookyturtle

[Heracles 417]

I am quite comfortable with myself in the real world. This is entertaining.

Is that why you scheme with your buds scandal and A.J on how best to attack?

Dude I don't care what you write both in or outside this forum. You certainly won't see me teaming up with anyone to try to get you.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I am quite comfortable with myself in the real world. This is entertaining.

Is that why you scheme with your buds scandal and A.J on how best to attack?

Dude I don't care what you write both in or outside this forum. You certainly won't see me teaming up with anyone to try to get you.

Teaming up with AJ and Scandal? Paranoia setting in? Go take your meds.

[Heracles 417]

My point is eliminating firearms from the general population had a minimal effect on the homicide rate. I don't know any simpler way to say it. You are what you are.

Your point is based on rubbish. How about the UK or Canada? Or are those stats false too?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

My point is eliminating firearms from the general population had a minimal effect on the homicide rate. I don't know any simpler way to say it. You are what you are.

Your point is based on rubbish. How about the UK or Canada? Or are those stats false too?

Stick to Australia, that's what you have been touting as a role model. My point is based on facts. You can't produce any, hence you are wrong. Try baiting elsewhere. But make sure you have a credible stance.

[slim 1,525]

So what reduced their overall homicide rate between 1995 (year prior to gun ban) to 2008 by 33%?

I don't know how much simpler I can say this - It was not reduced by 33%.

If you take 1995 and 2008, yes, there is a 33% reduction. But, if you take 1995 and 1999, there's a 45% INCREASE. So, that's why I like to be fair and take the AVERAGE of all the years between when the ban started and the most recent data available.

The AVERAGE is homicides have been reduced about .2/100,000. Is that what you're calling a success?

[Heracles 417]

Teaming up with AJ and Scandal? Paranoia setting in? Go take your meds.

Dude I don't know what you do nor care. However, you clearly do have an issue. Hence why you are obsessed. People who are not obsessed ignore each other and don't make witty remarks about the other, even when the person has not even posted in a thread.

As an example, I dislike A.J, therefore, I ignore A.J. I don't follow him around or make cheap shots every chance I can get, at his expense. I don't propose creating A.J. appreciation threads, yet in the same breadth say I am not obsessed. Get it? probably not...

[Heracles 417]

Stick to Australia, that's what you have been touting as a role model. My point is based on facts. You can't produce any, hence you are wrong. Try baiting elsewhere. But make sure you have a credible stance.

I do have a credible stance, hence the paycheck and job title in a fortune 500 company. The reason you don't want to see the stats is because they illustrate it even further.

Interesting thing about the following is that it matches how hard it is to acquire firearms in those countries; with the bottom being the hardest.

Murders with firearms

# 1 South Africa: 31,918 - 49 million population

# 2 Colombia: 21,898 - 44 million population

# 3 Thailand: 20,032 - 63 million population

# 4 United States: 9,369 - 303 million population

Murders with firearms (Per Capita)

# 1 South Africa: 71.9782 per 100,000 people

# 2 Colombia: 50.9801 per 100,000 people

# 3 Thailand: 31.2093 per 100,000 people

# 4 Zimbabwe: 4.91736 per 100,000 people

# 5 Mexico: 3.37938 per 100,000 people

# 6 Belarus: 3.21359 per 100,000 people

# 7 Costa Rica: 3.13745 per 100,000 people

# 8 United States: 2.79271 per 100,000 people

# 20 Canada: 0.502972 per 100,000 people

# 27 Australia: 0.293678 per 100,000 people

# 31 New Zealand: 0.173482 per 100,000 people

# 32 United Kingdom: 0.102579 per 100,000 people

Edited November 28, 2009 by Booyah!