Montreal denied!!!

[MapleLeafBaby 1]

I feel bad for all of those that have been denied lately due to domicile. It looks like there's no winning...you make the decision to go to Canada and be with your spouse during the waiting and you get zinged....

It's almost a sign that waiting out the agony seperately, assures no issues at interview....

Either way, one part or another sucks

I hope all the recent denials get sorted out quickly and you all make it home for the Holidays

[trailmix 77]

He looked at mine, but it didn't do much good. I showed him a very recent, valid car registration from the U.S. and that didn't help either.

It doesn't prove anything in this situation. If you are trying to prove that your actual residence is in the U.S. you will fail, it would seem to be virtually impossible - it might be possible if say, in the last year, you spent 3 months in Canada and 9 in the U.S.

From a proving reestablishing of domicile it might be good secondary evidence (if it is new, ie: you popped down to get it) if your primary evidence is weak - sim - your primary evidence wasn't weak.

Edited November 26, 2009 by trailmix

[Blitz 3]

I feel bad for all of those that have been denied lately due to domicile. It looks like there's no winning...you make the decision to go to Canada and be with your spouse during the waiting and you get zinged....

I know! It makes no sense! I was denied entry to the US a month ago, and the time before that (when I was allowed entry) the CBP (who was a very nice guy) told me that my husband should spend more time in Canada so that I didn't spend too much time in the US. So you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't! If the USC spends too much time visiting Canada, then domicile could become an issue. If the Cdn spends too much time in the US, then they risk being denied. Canadians have the advantage of being so close to the US and are usually able to travel back and forth easily, but it's like they WANT to make sure we are seperated from our spouses (and children) for an extended period of time.

It makes me so upset b/c of all the countries in the world, Canada is BY FAR the most similar to the United States - we're neighbours, we're "brothers" - yet it seems like it takes longer for Canadians to immigrate than citizens of many other countries. I don't mean to pass judgment on any other country's citizens, but how many Canadians are "desperate" to move to the US, besides those of us who marry (or plan to marry) Americans? How many times do you hear about illegal aliens in the US who are Canadian? Canada and the US are equally great countries for different reasons. I love a lot of things about the US and I'm excited to start a life there with my family, but can safely say that if I had never married an American, I would never even think of moving to the US....instead, I'd just aim to be a snow bird so I can spend my winters somewhere warm when I'm older.

[MapleLeafBaby 1]

I feel bad for all of those that have been denied lately due to domicile. It looks like there's no winning...you make the decision to go to Canada and be with your spouse during the waiting and you get zinged....

I know! It makes no sense! I was denied entry to the US a month ago, and the time before that (when I was allowed entry) the CBP (who was a very nice guy) told me that my husband should spend more time in Canada so that I didn't spend too much time in the US. So you are damned if you do, and damned if you don't! If the USC spends too much time visiting Canada, then domicile could become an issue. If the Cdn spends too much time in the US, then they risk being denied. Canadians have the advantage of being so close to the US and are usually able to travel back and forth easily, but it's like they WANT to make sure we are seperated from our spouses (and children) for an extended period of time.

It makes me so upset b/c of all the countries in the world, Canada is BY FAR the most similar to the United States - we're neighbours, we're "brothers" - yet it seems like it takes longer for Canadians to immigrate than citizens of many other countries. I don't mean to pass judgment on any other country's citizens, but how many Canadians are "desperate" to move to the US, besides those of us who marry (or plan to marry) Americans? How many times do you hear about illegal aliens in the US who are Canadian? Canada and the US are equally great countries for different reasons. I love a lot of things about the US and I'm excited to start a life there with my family, but can safely say that if I had never married an American, I would never even think of moving to the US....instead, I'd just aim to be a snow bird so I can spend my winters somewhere warm when I'm older.

I agree. It's sad, but sometimes, in haste (or not) we become desperate to be with our loved one's during the process and move temp to Canada or the US...and end up shooting themselves in the foot.

The waiting for me was not easy..I am the type that I would have moved temp...my husband is the logical one..we followed his way of thinking, and even though at times I thought I would lose my mind...i'm glad we did it the way we did...

Regardless of how things pan out for most over the next while, I wish you all the best and at least to be together for the holidays (whether it be perm...or just for a visit

[Lenie7 0]

The sheet they gave me regarding domicile explicitly states:

"Many U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents reside outside the United States on a temporary basis, usually for work or family considerations. Temporary is a relative term and may cover an extended period of time residing abroad. If the sponsor can establish, to the interviewing consular officer's satisfaction, that the sponsor left the U.S. for a limited and not indefinite period of time, intended to maintain a U.S. domicile, and has evidence of continued ties to the U.S., then the sponsor can be considered to be domiciled in the U.S."

Domicile isn't supposed to mean just physical presence, but also ties. I lived between the two countries for family considerations and didn't stay in Canada for extended periods of time. You're right that my other evidence wasn't weak at all and I clearly have ties to the U.S. per their own instructions. Having a driver's license proves ties (although I agree it's weak if it's the ONLY proof I have) as does having a house, bank accounts, many bills in my name, car registrations, insurance, etc. So they gave me this sheet to help me so that I know what to do and I've already done it. I think I will sign up for classes, send the same stuff back that I've already presented, and send a copy of their instructions with that portion.

This whole thing is driving me nuts!!

He looked at mine, but it didn't do much good. I showed him a very recent, valid car registration from the U.S. and that didn't help either.

It doesn't prove anything in this situation. If you are trying to prove that your actual residence is in the U.S. you will fail, it would seem to be virtually impossible - it might be possible if say, in the last year, you spent 3 months in Canada and 9 in the U.S.

From a proving reestablishing of domicile it might be good secondary evidence (if it is new, ie: you popped down to get it) if your primary evidence is weak - sim - your primary evidence wasn't weak.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Lenie7

[jonesg111 0]

I agree 100% with what you said, now if only we could train some CO on what their own paperwork states.

The sheet they gave me regarding domicile explicitly states:

"Many U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents reside outside the United States on a temporary basis, usually for work or family considerations. Temporary is a relative term and may cover an extended period of time residing abroad. If the sponsor can establish, to the interviewing consular officer's satisfaction, that the sponsor left the U.S. for a limited and not indefinite period of time, intended to maintain a U.S. domicile, and has evidence of continued ties to the U.S., then the sponsor can be considered to be domiciled in the U.S."

Domicile isn't supposed to mean just physical presence, but also ties. I lived between the two countries for family considerations and didn't stay in Canada for extended periods of time. You're right that my other evidence wasn't weak at all and I clearly have ties to the U.S. per their own instructions. Having a driver's license proves ties (although I agree it's weak if it's the ONLY proof I have) as does having a house, bank accounts, many bills in my name, car registrations, insurance, etc. So they gave me this sheet to help me so that I know what to do and I've already done it. I think I will sign up for classes, send the same stuff back that I've already presented, and send a copy of their instructions with that portion.

This whole thing is driving me nuts!!

He looked at mine, but it didn't do much good. I showed him a very recent, valid car registration from the U.S. and that didn't help either.

It doesn't prove anything in this situation. If you are trying to prove that your actual residence is in the U.S. you will fail, it would seem to be virtually impossible - it might be possible if say, in the last year, you spent 3 months in Canada and 9 in the U.S.

From a proving reestablishing of domicile it might be good secondary evidence (if it is new, ie: you popped down to get it) if your primary evidence is weak - sim - your primary evidence wasn't weak.

[trailmix 77]

There are 3 types of domicile, as we already know, the first being that the U.S. citizen is living in the U.S. - that's clear cut and straightforward. For the other two:

1. 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1 Maintaining U.S. Domicile

2. 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-2 Establishing U.S. Domicile

The guidelines are a bit subjective. They basically ask the CO to go with his gut feeling on the matter for item 1:

However, in a situation in which the petitioner has maintained both a U.S. residence and a residence abroad, you must determine which is the principal abode. Some petitioners have remained abroad for extended periods but still maintain a principal residence in the United States (i.e., students, contract workers, and non-governmental organization (NGO) volunteers). To establish that one is also maintaining a domicile in the United States, the petitioner must satisfy you that he or she):

(1) Departed the United States for a limited, and not indefinite, period of time;

(2) Intended to maintain a U.S. domicile at the time of departure; and,

(3) Can present convincing evidence of continued ties to the United States.

So how i'm reading that is that you must meet all of those stipulations, not some.

So (and this applies to Leni) let's break it down.

(1) Departed the United States for a limited, and not indefinite, period of time;

When did you first leave the U.S., ie: move to Canada, but with no intention of giving up your U.S. domicile? When did you apply for and when did you receive your Canadian PR card?

I think (and I could be wrong since I can't read the CO's mind) that he looked at the above and said, well, while she might have strong ties to the U.S., she applied for permanent residence in another country during this time period - that trumps all.

Edited November 26, 2009 by trailmix

[Lenie7 0]

Heh heh - we should join a debate team, Trailmix!

Really, me trying to prove my case on VJ is a moot point considering the CO rejected us. I have looked into my options already and figure I'll start school in January while looking for a job. I was going to go through a particular college program a couple of years ago and did some of the pre-work (requesting transcripts, etc.), so I should be ready to go when I return to the U.S. Although it's a bummer to be separated, it isn't the end of the world and we'll get through it.

There are 3 types of domicile, as we already know, the first being that the U.S. citizen is living in the U.S. - that's clear cut and straightforward. For the other two:

1. 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1 Maintaining U.S. Domicile

2. 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-2 Establishing U.S. Domicile

The guidelines are a bit subjective. They basically ask the CO to go with his gut feeling on the matter for item 1:

However, in a situation in which the petitioner has maintained both a U.S. residence and a residence abroad, you must determine which is the principal abode. Some petitioners have remained abroad for extended periods but still maintain a principal residence in the United States (i.e., students, contract workers, and non-governmental organization (NGO) volunteers). To establish that one is also maintaining a domicile in the United States, the petitioner must satisfy you that he or she):

(1) Departed the United States for a limited, and not indefinite, period of time;

(2) Intended to maintain a U.S. domicile at the time of departure; and,

(3) Can present convincing evidence of continued ties to the United States.

So how i'm reading that is that you must meet all of those stipulations, not some.

So (and this applies to Leni) let's break it down.

(1) Departed the United States for a limited, and not indefinite, period of time;

When did you first leave the U.S., ie: move to Canada, but with no intention of giving up your U.S. domicile? When did you apply for and when did you receive your Canadian PR card?

I think (and I could be wrong since I can't read the CO's mind) that he looked at the above and said, well, while she might have strong ties to the U.S., she applied for permanent residence in another country during this time period - that trumps all.

[trailmix 77]

We can't debate because we are on the same side

I hope that my postings don't sound too....umm - just the facts? I really do care and I really am sorry you were denied and I do think he could have taken a looser look at the whole domicile thing and just have said - well she doesn't fit in that slot - but hey - I can sure use this evidence to show proof of reestablishing.

But, I will leave this alone - I do wish you tons of good luck and please let us know how it all turns out

[Lenie7 0]

Oh no....not at all! I know you are on my side and that you're just trying to figure out where that guy was in his head to make the decision he did.

Thanks for the best wishes. I will definitely let you all know what happens!

We can't debate because we are on the same side

I hope that my postings don't sound too....umm - just the facts? I really do care and I really am sorry you were denied and I do think he could have taken a looser look at the whole domicile thing and just have said - well she doesn't fit in that slot - but hey - I can sure use this evidence to show proof of reestablishing.

But, I will leave this alone - I do wish you tons of good luck and please let us know how it all turns out

[Blitz 3]

Trailmix - I think YOU should get a job at the US consulate in Montreal, if that's possible! You're so helpful and you know your stuff!

[Sunny4567 0]

Trailmix-

I couldn't sleep so I was up reading Lenie7 thread again.

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but did you ever hear what happened to her in the end?

Thanks!

Sunny!

We can't debate because we are on the same side <img src="http://www.visajourney.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laughing.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="laughing.gif" />

I hope that my postings don't sound too....umm - just the facts? I really do care and I really am sorry you were denied and I do think he could have taken a looser look at the whole domicile thing and just have said - well she doesn't fit in that slot - but hey - I can sure use this evidence to show proof of reestablishing.

But, I will leave this alone - I do wish you tons of good luck and please let us know how it all turns out <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[coraliesolms 47]

<!--quoteo(post=3517558:date=Nov 24 2009, 09:39 AM:name=Dalene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalene @ Nov 24 2009, 09:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3517558"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3517499:date=Nov 24 2009, 12:21 PM:name=mikey78)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mikey78 @ Nov 24 2009, 12:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3517499"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dalene, who was the person interviewing you? Let's see it if is not one and the same person who interprets facts the same way to the disadvantage of the applicants?

And I am on the same page with trailmix, super ticked off by this particular interpretation. There is no way anyone, especially US Consulate, that can demand you give up your Canadian permanent resident card...

<!--quoteo(post=3517440:date=Nov 24 2009, 12:06 PM:name=trailmix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (trailmix @ Nov 24 2009, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3517440"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also wanted to say that this part really makes me mad. I have seen this a few times - the whole - this is a reunification visa - which somehow discounts the whole reestablishing domicile guidelines??

To say it is a reunification visa and to then turn around and say - and now your spouse must leave the country without you is entirely hypocritical.

ok, enough said, but it really ticks me off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I went to look at Danu's thread as she was there with me. Apparently, it was the head consular guy, Paul Mayer as it seemed he was the only interviewer yesterday. He seems to be especially nice to k visa people, but since that is considered a non-immigrant visa, I'm sure the interview is less stringent.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Really? That's very surprising to hear.

Did he look like this guy?

<a href="http://www.rwallenberg-int.org/Events/Mayer.htm" target="_blank">http://www.rwallenberg-int.org/Events/Mayer.htm</a>

THAT WAS THE AWEFUL MAN WHO DID MY INTERVIEW!!!!!!!! Omg.. now I know his name... He is a mean SOB, with little man syndrome!! Kept telling he didnt care about what the NVC said to bring, that he has the final say on what I should have had at my interview!!! OMG!

[Krikit 1,164]

Did he look like this guy?

http://www.rwallenbe...vents/Mayer.htm

Hadn't seen this thread before. Read the profile in the link. Does anyone else find it a bit strange that this person highlights an accomplishment from two decades ago? I mean, I'm sure it was relevant back in the day, but 22 years ago?

"He is a 1988 graduate of Harvard College, where he received an A.B. in Philosophy and was also captain of the track team."

I'm thinking I might add my bowling trophy from grade school to the list of my accomplishments on my resume.

LOL @ your signature pic, Coralie.

[Lenie7 0]

Hi Sunny - the status of my case is that I am waiting to hear back from the consulate. Since I came back to the U.S. to start taking classes in January, we waited until March to submit the domicile package. This Friday, it will be 4 weeks since they've received our additional info, so I plan to get my congress person involved then to ask Montreal what our status is. If they don't approve, I don't know what else we can do since everything indicates that I am domiciled here. I don't have a job, but because of our situation, it really isn't worth it for me to get a job. I haven't seen my husband in almost 4 months, so I guess that's what the guy wants for some reason.

I will update when I hear something back.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Lenie7