Montreal denied!!!

[Lenie7 0]

Especially for a license, you need to prove to your state that you are a resident before they issue you one. So if your state sees you fit living there to give you a drivers license, what is holding up immigration?

I never gave mine up and have had it for several years, so you would think that would help. Unfortunately, it made no difference.

[Lenie7 0]

Wow, Dalene! Sorry to hear about the interview.

Now I'm worried about my case. Currently, we have submitted an application to the Canadian Immigration for my American hubby to get his PR Card. He currently lives and works in the Seattle, while I'm live and work in Vancouver. Concurrently, we are also submitting an application to the US so I can get the green card. Now I'm wondering would I be denied the green card because he has his PR card?

If he is actually in the U.S. when you have an interview, you shouldn't have a problem. My issue was that I had a PR card and wasn't working in the U.S. If he is still working in Seattle, you'll be fine.

[simistar 2]

Wyatt - I'm sorry, but I really have to disagree with you. In order to file for DCF, you HAVE to have a visa or PR of some sort. I have not heard of any other consulate that requires you to give up your PR card in order to prove that you have an intention to move. Hell, who is going to go through this process if they didn't have any intention of moving?

And realistically, this interviewer seems to go in with his mind already made up without even looking at the interviewee's documentation - it is probably the same guy who interviewed Simistar - but she forced the proof to be seen. Her husband had a job offer, though.

This is true! They guy REFUSED a FEW times to even LOOK at my file with all my proof of domicile!

I wonder if it is the same guy saying the same things to everyone...

My guy was pretty short and had short dark blond-ish hair...and I think blue eyes, though I'm not 100 % sure on that one.

I'm sorry Dalene that you were denied! That sucks BIG time.

BUT, don't give up your PR card!

I think it's weird the interviewer even asked you about that...

I was never asked anything about my husband having a PR card...and I was worried I would be b/c he literally got his PR card about a week before my interview! I thought for sure they'd wonder about that...

(basically, my husband's work dealt with it, paid for it, etc...and since he hasn't told them yet he's leaving, he went through with the PR card...and besides, maybe we'll need it again if we have to move baack?!)

I say hold on to that card...you may need it again as well:-)

Edited November 25, 2009 by simistar

[trailmix 77]

Anyway, to answer your question I showed that:

- I own a house that has all my furniture, most of my clothes and one of my cars there. Also, I stay there when I am in the U.S. which is fairly often. He said that I only showed that I have assets in the U.S.

- I have a U.S. driver's license and no Canadian license

- Bank and retirement accounts in the U.S.

- We are only renting and didn't buy a house in Canada

That was probably about it because I told him I had more, like utility bills for my house in my name, including cable tv, and property tax records, but he had already made up his mind and didn't want to see anything. I had seen on VJ that many people were getting hassled for domicile, but I felt like I was well prepared for the interview. Little did I know how difficult it actually would be. I guess part of the reason I am thinking I might get a job is that I don't want to relinquish my PR card in Canada, not because I don't have intentions to move to the U.S., but because I hate the idea of closing doors and opportunities in the future. Canada has different requirements than the U.S to maintain PR status and so I'd like to keep it if I can.

The thing that concerns me about the proof you took is that this is the kind of proof you would take if you were proving that you are already domiciled in the U.S. - not the proof you would need to prove 'reestablishing' domicile.

There is a difference between the two - one says - hey I already live there - one says - hey, I am moving back there.

I don't see any piece of evidence that says - hey we are moving, if that makes sense?

[trailmix 77]

The thing I have been thinking about is the fact that you told him that you stay in the U.S. quite often - this is why:

9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1 Maintaining U.S. Domicile

(CT:VISA-823; 07-14-2006)

a. Unless the petitioner meets the conditions outlined in 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-2

below, a petitioner who is maintaining a residence outside the United

States could not normally claim a U.S. domicile and would be ineligible to

submit Form I-864, Affidavit of Support Under Section 213A of the Act.

In order to provide a AOS for his or her relative, such a petitioner would

have to reestablish a domicile in the United States. (See 9 FAM 40.41

N6.1-3, below.)

b. However, in a situation in which the petitioner has maintained both a U.S.

residence and a residence abroad, you must determine which is the

principal abode. Some petitioners have remained abroad for extended

periods but still maintain a principal residence in the United States (i.e.,

students, contract workers, and non-governmental organization (NGO)

volunteers). To establish that one is also maintaining a domicile in the

United States, the petitioner must satisfy you that he or she:

(1) Departed the United States for a limited, and not indefinite, period

of time;

(2) Intended to maintain a U.S. domicile at the time of departure; and,

(3) Can present convincing evidence of continued ties to the United

States.

Edited November 25, 2009 by trailmix

[Hugglebuggles 60]

Pardon my french but this is complete #######. I've never really understood why the domicile issue is such a big issue in the granting of visas. You're a US citizen, you can move back when you want to where you want. If you want to live in a ditch because you have no job or no home then so be it. If you can prove the ability to support your foreign spouse and thus guarantee he won't be a public charge, then whats the issue? I just don't understand it. Why are ties such an important factor?

I don't have any advice for you Dalene but I want to wish you the best of luck!

[trailmix 77]

Pardon my french but this is complete #######. I've never really understood why the domicile issue is such a big issue in the granting of visas. You're a US citizen, you can move back when you want to where you want. If you want to live in a ditch because you have no job or no home then so be it. If you can prove the ability to support your foreign spouse and thus guarantee he won't be a public charge, then whats the issue? I just don't understand it. Why are ties such an important factor?

I don't have any advice for you Dalene but I want to wish you the best of luck!

It's part of the rules for the affidavit of support - how can they ensure the immigrant won't become a public charge if the sponsor cannot prove that they are really moving there - never really left - are already there.

Yeah...it's #######

Edited November 25, 2009 by trailmix

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I'm so sorry, Dalene,

I don't normally say things like this but your interviewer was unprofessional and a complete jerk. It really seems that he needs a refresher course both in how to conduct a professional interview as well as the laws governing his decisions. For anyone to say you can hire a lawyer but they aren't going to find the law he is invoking regarding surrendering your PR card but that it is a law, is complete bull. If it is a law he should be able to provide you with complete identification of where you can find it. If it is a law then a lawyer can find it. If a lawyer cannot find it, then it is not a law and a complete fabrication by this individual. If it were me involved I would definitely be filing a complaint with the head of the Consulate not just for the denial but for the completely unprofessional manner in which he conducted this interview. It sounds like he needs to go the same way as the 'nasty woman' - out the door.

Good luck at getting this resolved. Do not surrender your PR card - he does not have the right to request it and he knows it because he balked strongly and became even more unprofessional when you asked him where that was written.

[Lenie7 0]

Hey Trailmix - I actually think that there is slightly conflicting info between FAM and the sheet he gave me at the interview - not major, but confusing. I honestly don't believe that domicile is supposed to be THAT stringent and I think that this guy at the consulate is especially harsh. If he had remained professional during the interview, I might be more apt to see the other side of things, but I think he enjoys giving people a hard time. I actually did tell him that I spend MORE of my time in the U.S. than Canada, but that there was no way to prove it since neither side ever stamps my passport. He agreed and told me he believed everything I said, so it still makes no sense that we were denied.

I swear at this point, I can see why people have their spouses come to the U.S. and adjust status rather than go through this hassle. I mean, in many of the cases here, people married for many years are having a hard time getting their families to the U.S. I am not advocating breaking the law, but people who do have a much easier time of it in the interview. U.S. immigration needs to be reformed and/or they need to train their people because I have encountered several of their employees who have no idea what they're talking about. It really makes me lack faith in the government.

The thing I have been thinking about is the fact that you told him that you stay in the U.S. quite often - this is why:

9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1 Maintaining U.S. Domicile

(CT:VISA-823; 07-14-2006)

a. Unless the petitioner meets the conditions outlined in 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-2

below, a petitioner who is maintaining a residence outside the United

States could not normally claim a U.S. domicile and would be ineligible to

submit Form I-864, Affidavit of Support Under Section 213A of the Act.

In order to provide a AOS for his or her relative, such a petitioner would

have to reestablish a domicile in the United States. (See 9 FAM 40.41

N6.1-3, below.)

b. However, in a situation in which the petitioner has maintained both a U.S.

residence and a residence abroad, you must determine which is the

principal abode. Some petitioners have remained abroad for extended

periods but still maintain a principal residence in the United States (i.e.,

students, contract workers, and non-governmental organization (NGO)

volunteers). To establish that one is also maintaining a domicile in the

United States, the petitioner must satisfy you that he or she:

(1) Departed the United States for a limited, and not indefinite, period

of time;

(2) Intended to maintain a U.S. domicile at the time of departure; and,

(3) Can present convincing evidence of continued ties to the United

States.

[trailmix 77]

I think that it's more of an 'overlapping' than conflicting. Do I think this guy is taking a really hard line - yes.

You told him that you spent more of your time in the U.S. - so i'm guessing that he decided he had to look at it and say well - where is her principal abode - is it the U.S.? Well no, he couldn't decide that was the case.

What I see is that the people that have been denied have not proven a clear case according to the guideline they chose. Do I think it's fair that they got denied because of that - no not really - because these domicile guidelines overlap each other, he could have simply looked at it from a different angle and approved all of you. He chose not to do that and instead take a hard line - which I suppose is his right.

You mentioned in the other thread you meet clause 5:

(5) Must at a minimum to satisfy you that he or she intends to take up residence there no later than the time of the applicant’s immigration to the United States.

The thing is, in my opinion, you have to be very clear with them that this is what you are trying to prove - not that your principal abode is in the U.S. - but that you are reestablishing domicile in the U.S.

Could he have chosen to look at it from that point of view and perhaps approved you - yes probably. It seems to me that because he is taking such a hard line there is no room for wishy washy here. In my opinion you must chose what you are trying to prove and also take a hard line with it. If you intend to prove reestablishing domicile you need to go with that 100%.

While some of these rules overlap I think it's important to look at them separately.

Edited November 25, 2009 by trailmix

[Lenie7 0]

I agree, Trailmix. Since he is now taking a hard line, I think there is no way I can prove I have domicile without moving back and forgoing any visits to Canada. But I am worried that even if I do that, it still may not get approved. It seems that people who have had the same issues with domicile are still getting denied, even though they submitted proof of job offer, leases, moving back to the U.S., etc. If this is the case, it seems like nothing will convince the COs of domicile. Additionally, I am worried about is how long it will take me to find a job if I go that route since the economy is not exactly robust now. School is an option, but I would have to work very quickly to get that accomplished, which may be difficult.

I guess all I can do is try my best to try to establish that I have re-established myself in the U.S. I will be very clear when I answer and try to have as much evidence as possible. We do have evidence of transferring funds to the U.S., so that may help as well. Well, hopefully we'll get it sorted out!

I think that it's more of an 'overlapping' than conflicting. Do I think this guy is taking a really hard line - yes.

You told him that you spent more of your time in the U.S. - so i'm guessing that he decided he had to look at it and say well - where is her principal abode - is it the U.S.? Well no, he couldn't decide that was the case.

What I see is that the people that have been denied have not proven a clear case according to the guideline they chose. Do I think it's fair that they got denied because of that - no not really - because these domicile guidelines overlap each other, he could have simply looked at it from a different angle and approved all of you. He chose not to do that and instead take a hard line - which I suppose is his right.

You mentioned in the other thread you meet clause 5:

(5) Must at a minimum to satisfy you that he or she intends to take up residence there no later than the time of the applicant’s immigration to the United States.

The thing is, in my opinion, you have to be very clear with them that this is what you are trying to prove - not that your principal abode is in the U.S. - but that you are reestablishing domicile in the U.S.

Could he have chosen to look at it from that point of view and perhaps approved you - yes probably. It seems to me that because he is taking such a hard line there is no room for wishy washy here. In my opinion you must chose what you are trying to prove and also take a hard line with it. If you intend to prove reestablishing domicile you need to go with that 100%.

While some of these rules overlap I think it's important to look at them separately.

[Revenesque 2]

Wow, Dalene! Sorry to hear about the interview.

Now I'm worried about my case. Currently, we have submitted an application to the Canadian Immigration for my American hubby to get his PR Card. He currently lives and works in the Seattle, while I'm live and work in Vancouver. Concurrently, we are also submitting an application to the US so I can get the green card. Now I'm wondering would I be denied the green card because he has his PR card?

If he is actually in the U.S. when you have an interview, you shouldn't have a problem. My issue was that I had a PR card and wasn't working in the U.S. If he is still working in Seattle, you'll be fine.

Thanks, Dalene, for you assurance. :-) I hope things work out for you.

[Avery 0]

Especially for a license, you need to prove to your state that you are a resident before they issue you one. So if your state sees you fit living there to give you a drivers license, what is holding up immigration?

I never gave mine up and have had it for several years, so you would think that would help. Unfortunately, it made no difference.

With the license we had to actually converted his Canadian license to state of Ohio. In which case you do have to redo the tests and prove residency before they will issue it, which we did. I am hoping that's our ace up our sleeve.

You could convert temporarily to a Canadian one (which they request you do if you are going to be staying longer than 3 months), they didn't have to redo the tests in MB and then convert back to your state license after in which case you prove residence.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Avery

[simistar 2]

Especially for a license, you need to prove to your state that you are a resident before they issue you one. So if your state sees you fit living there to give you a drivers license, what is holding up immigration?

I never gave mine up and have had it for several years, so you would think that would help. Unfortunately, it made no difference.

With the license we had to actually converted his Canadian license to state of Ohio. In which case you do have to redo the tests and prove residency before they will issue it, which we did. I am hoping that's our ace up our sleeve.

You could convert temporarily to a Canadian one (which they request you do if you are going to be staying longer than 3 months), they didn't have to redo the tests in MB and then convert back to your state license after in which case you prove residence.

My husband (the USC) also has a valid US drivers license and my interviewer didn't even want to see it. He said that didn't prove anything....

Ummm..... okay

[Lenie7 0]

Especially for a license, you need to prove to your state that you are a resident before they issue you one. So if your state sees you fit living there to give you a drivers license, what is holding up immigration?

I never gave mine up and have had it for several years, so you would think that would help. Unfortunately, it made no difference.

With the license we had to actually converted his Canadian license to state of Ohio. In which case you do have to redo the tests and prove residency before they will issue it, which we did. I am hoping that's our ace up our sleeve.

You could convert temporarily to a Canadian one (which they request you do if you are going to be staying longer than 3 months), they didn't have to redo the tests in MB and then convert back to your state license after in which case you prove residence.

My husband (the USC) also has a valid US drivers license and my interviewer didn't even want to see it. He said that didn't prove anything....

Ummm..... okay

He looked at mine, but it didn't do much good. I showed him a very recent, valid car registration from the U.S. and that didn't help either.