Montreal denied!!!

[Lenie7 0]

Congrats to my fellow K-1 VJ'ers for their successful interviews yesterday! It was nice chatting - good luck to you all on your upcoming nuptials!

Well, the guy denied us for lack of domicile!!! Although I (the USC) own a house in the U.S., have a driver's license in the U.S., have my cars registered there (with U.S. insurance), have several bank accounts there, and explained that I spend part of my time in Canada and the U.S., he said that because I possess a Canadian permanent resident card (for only a year now), I don't qualify for domicile. He said he was unable to determine my intent to reside permanently in the U.S. and couldn't grant the visa. Isn't applying for the immigrant visa for my spouse intent? I mean, who would go through all this difficult, expensive, slow immigration process if they DIDN'T want to move to the U.S.?!?

He also said that the CR-1 is a reunification visa for families, so in order to get the visa, I have to separate from my husband, turn in my PR card, and lose medical during the time it takes for them to process the visa. I guess I have the option of moving back to the U.S to get a job, but either way, the end result is that we will be separated for a while. I know many of you on VJ have been separated, so I don't mean to whine to you, but I can't believe that U.S. immigration WANTS people to be separated. I feel so sad about it. I was crying like a baby when I left the interview room, and the interviewer seemed really annoyed with us, so I can't say my experience was a positive one.

The ironic thing is that people who don't follow the proper process and have their spouse move to the U.S. then adjust status there have a MUCH easier time and are rarely denied. Not to mention that the government allows thousands to move to the U.S. with a visa lottery, yet I, as a USC, am having a hard time getting my own husband in the country! How incredibly frustrating and unfair this whole process is! Yeah, I know, I know....life isn't fair and I've just got to move on and deal with it. Now that I've gotten through my rant, I will have to figure out the next steps.

I have a year to prove domicile, although I guess it's less time if I don't want to re-submit key documents (police reports, etc.). We were looking at moving in March, so it is possible to submit documentation by then, although I'm not sure which route to take. After I submit domicile documentation, it will take 4-6 MORE weeks for them to process, although with current Montreal time lines, I don't know if I can count on it being done that quickly.

Now, on to practical matters - has anyone out there ever turned in a Canadian PR card? I looked online and found some threads of people who mailed their cards to Ottawa and never heard back from them, leading me to wonder how you would prove that you turned it in. If anyone has experience with this, it would be appreciated.

[Peachey 10]

Darlene I'm so sad to hear this

I can't offer any advice, but I can offer my prayers and hopes for a fast approval.

[canadian_wife 1,823]

I am so sorry! I hope that your separation is not too long and drawn out

Good luck.

[INK 0]

Sorry to hear - I don't think that you've been provided correct information about having to move back and re-establish domicile. We were denied for lack of domicile, but the CO was very clear about my wife not having to move back to US. This is becoming very common in Montreal and has happend to a number of people lately such as Avery, Jones11, stc. The CO gave us an information sheet that specifically stated that you do not have to move back - you just have to prove intent to establish domicile and things to provide such as lease papers, school registration, job offer, and evidence to relinquish residence in canada. The only thing difference in your case is that you are a PR and my wife is a dual citizen, but I do not see this requiring you yo move to US...I would suggest that you look into this more before picking up and move.

[trailmix 77]

Hi Dalene,

Sorry to hear about your experience at the interview! Sounds to me like you got the same fellow a few people have had for the interview and I do not believe that he actually understands the 'reestablishing domicile' clause in their own guidelines. Which is not to say that he doesn't know what evidence he is looking for - but he seems to be hasty in telling the U.S. citizen they must move back to the U.S. rather than just submit more proof.

First off, I would not be too hasty in relinquishing your Canadian PR card - that sounds completely out of line.

I know you are probably still reeling from getting denied but as some others have mentioned, other people have been told that they have to move back to the U.S. (probably by the same guy) and that turned out to not be the case and they submitted extra evidence and were approved.

So back to the practical matters at hand. From what I understand from your post, you submitted proof of:

- Owning a house in the U.S. (is this vacant, are you moving to live in that house?)

- U.S. driver's license

- Cars registered there with U.S. insurance

- Several bank accounts

What other proof did you submit that you were 'reestablishing domicile'?

Edited November 24, 2009 by trailmix

[Malrothien 6]

You *do not* have to return your Canadian PR card - that is of no business to the US government.

[Rhiannercakes 14]

I'm sorry you got denied, I hope you can get your evidence of domicile fixed and get your visa soon!

[trailmix 77]

I just want to say that I did write to the Montreal consulate last week about the reestablishing domicile issue - I haven't received a reply yet.

[trailmix 77]

He also said that the CR-1 is a reunification visa for families, so in order to get the visa, I have to separate from my husband, turn in my PR card, and lose medical during the time it takes for them to process the visa. I guess I have the option of moving back to the U.S to get a job, but either way, the end result is that we will be separated for a while. I know many of you on VJ have been separated, so I don't mean to whine to you, but I can't believe that U.S. immigration WANTS people to be separated. I feel so sad about it. I was crying like a baby when I left the interview room, and the interviewer seemed really annoyed with us, so I can't say my experience was a positive one.

I also wanted to say that this part really makes me mad. I have seen this a few times - the whole - this is a reunification visa - which somehow discounts the whole reestablishing domicile guidelines??

To say it is a reunification visa and to then turn around and say - and now your spouse must leave the country without you is entirely hypocritical.

ok, enough said, but it really ticks me off.

[TimandJoyce 1]

Sorry about your rough experience. I hope everything works out smoothly for you, and you get the answers you need quickly.

[Malrothien 6]

He also said that the CR-1 is a reunification visa for families, so in order to get the visa, I have to separate from my husband, turn in my PR card, and lose medical during the time it takes for them to process the visa. I guess I have the option of moving back to the U.S to get a job, but either way, the end result is that we will be separated for a while. I know many of you on VJ have been separated, so I don't mean to whine to you, but I can't believe that U.S. immigration WANTS people to be separated. I feel so sad about it. I was crying like a baby when I left the interview room, and the interviewer seemed really annoyed with us, so I can't say my experience was a positive one.

I also wanted to say that this part really makes me mad. I have seen this a few times - the whole - this is a reunification visa - which somehow discounts the whole reestablishing domicile guidelines??

To say it is a reunification visa and to then turn around and say - and now your spouse must leave the country without you is entirely hypocritical.

ok, enough said, but it really ticks me off.

It's BS - whoever this interviewer is really needs to be straightened out with regard to the rules. If it was a reunification visa - then why allow DCF??? Such BS.

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

UGH...I'm so sorry about this Dalene. Domicile is a downright scary word now to any CR-1.

I hate that you've waited so long for an interview, only to have a rejection. It sucks to pass through the USCIS and NVC smoothly, only to be denied at the final step...

I DO understand the rationale of the rejection -- it weeds out status seekers -- but for someone whose objectives are completely innocent and likely just misunderstood, it's horrible.

You have ALL of my empathy. Just do your utmost to get proof of your intentions. At least you haven't had to be separate from your husband. That's a major boon, really.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Wyatt's Torch

[Lenie7 0]

Hi Dalene,

Sorry to hear about your experience at the interview! Sounds to me like you got the same fellow a few people have had for the interview and I do not believe that he actually understands the 'reestablishing domicile' clause in their own guidelines. Which is not to say that he doesn't know what evidence he is looking for - but he seems to be hasty in telling the U.S. citizen they must move back to the U.S. rather than just submit more proof.

First off, I would not be too hasty in relinquishing your Canadian PR card - that sounds completely out of line.

I know you are probably still reeling from getting denied but as some others have mentioned, other people have been told that they have to move back to the U.S. (probably by the same guy) and that turned out to not be the case and they submitted extra evidence and were approved.

So back to the practical matters at hand. From what I understand from your post, you submitted proof of:

- Owning a house in the U.S. (is this vacant, are you moving to live in that house?)

- U.S. driver's license

- Cars registered there with U.S. insurance

- Several bank accounts

What other proof did you submit that you were 'reestablishing domicile'?

Thanks, Trailmix. I think you're right that he doesn't understand the requirement to establish domicile, but in the end, everything is up to the interviewer, I guess. I have never seen anywhere that an immigrant visa is a "family reunification visa," either, so I don't know why he has that belief. I told him that I didn't want to be separated from my spouse and he said, "Well, I've been separated from MY spouse." Ummmm....not sure what that has to do with anything.

He told me that I do have several "checks" on the U.S. side of things regarding establishing domicile, but the one "check" on the Canada side, having a Canadian PR Card, prevented him from issuing the visa. At first, he said he couldn't REQUIRE me to relinquish the card, but then later said that without relinquishing it, we wouldn't get the visa issued unless I got a job in the U.S. What if we live in the U.S. for a couple years and want to move back to Canada? I don't think it should be at his discretion to require I give up the card because as Mal posted, it's not really their business.

Anyway, to answer your question I showed that:

- I own a house that has all my furniture, most of my clothes and one of my cars there. Also, I stay there when I am in the U.S. which is fairly often. He said that I only showed that I have assets in the U.S.

- I have a U.S. driver's license and no Canadian license

- Bank and retirement accounts in the U.S.

- We are only renting and didn't buy a house in Canada

That was probably about it because I told him I had more, like utility bills for my house in my name, including cable tv, and property tax records, but he had already made up his mind and didn't want to see anything. I had seen on VJ that many people were getting hassled for domicile, but I felt like I was well prepared for the interview. Little did I know how difficult it actually would be. I guess part of the reason I am thinking I might get a job is that I don't want to relinquish my PR card in Canada, not because I don't have intentions to move to the U.S., but because I hate the idea of closing doors and opportunities in the future. Canada has different requirements than the U.S to maintain PR status and so I'd like to keep it if I can.

[mikey78 6]

Dalene, who was the person interviewing you? Let's see it if is not one and the same person who interprets facts the same way to the disadvantage of the applicants?

And I am on the same page with trailmix, super ticked off by this particular interpretation. There is no way anyone, especially US Consulate, that can demand you give up your Canadian permanent resident card...

I also wanted to say that this part really makes me mad. I have seen this a few times - the whole - this is a reunification visa - which somehow discounts the whole reestablishing domicile guidelines??

To say it is a reunification visa and to then turn around and say - and now your spouse must leave the country without you is entirely hypocritical.

ok, enough said, but it really ticks me off.

[Lenie7 0]

UGH...I'm so sorry about this Dalene. Domicile is a downright scary word now to any CR-1.

I hate that you've waited so long for an interview, only to have a rejection. It sucks to pass through the USCIS and NVC smoothly, only to be denied at the final step...

I DO understand the rationale of the rejection -- it weeds out status seekers -- but for someone whose objectives are completely innocent and likely just misunderstood, it's horrible.

You have ALL of my empathy. Just do your utmost to get proof of your intentions. At least you haven't had to be separate from your husband. That's a major boon, really.

I am definitely not trying to argue by making this point, but what if I had given up my Canadian status, moved to the U.S. and then the visa was denied for some other reason? The instructions they send you clearly state that a visa is not guaranteed, and yet the expectation is that you do everything as if it WAS guaranteed. It seems like you can't win, either way.