K-1 birth certificate??

[DarkCloudXD 0]

I've been trying to find an answer to this question on the forums, but unfortunately my search wasn't specific enough.

My fiance and I are filing for a K-1 and I'm just worried about the interview portion of the K-1. My fiance was born in Guangzhou, China but was never given a birth certificate according to her mother. She is now a Canadian citizen with a passport, photo ID, etc (how she got these without a birth certificate I have no idea but she has them). I am just curious if the passport and photo ID can substitute for her birth certificate? If not, where do I begin to contact to find out how I can get an official birth certificate from China to get it mailed to Canada?

[canadian_wife 1,822]

The consulates in Canada require you to have a birth certificate listing your parent's name, as well as a passport. The birth certificate is needed. I'm sorry I can't help with the brith certificate - maybe post on the Chinese forum for more assistance

Good luck

[sjr09 155]

I've been trying to find an answer to this question on the forums, but unfortunately my search wasn't specific enough.

My fiance and I are filing for a K-1 and I'm just worried about the interview portion of the K-1. My fiance was born in Guangzhou, China but was never given a birth certificate according to her mother. She is now a Canadian citizen with a passport, photo ID, etc (how she got these without a birth certificate I have no idea but she has them). I am just curious if the passport and photo ID can substitute for her birth certificate? If not, where do I begin to contact to find out how I can get an official birth certificate from China to get it mailed to Canada?

Most of the documents listed below can be obtained from one of China's Notarial Offices (Gong Zheng Chu). All Chinese documentation to be used abroad is processed through the notary offices and issued in the form of notarial certificates. Notarial offices are located in all major Chinese cities and in rural county seats. These offices are part of the Ministry of Justice structure, but are separate from the people's court system.

Notaries in China do not perform the same functions as their American counterparts. Chinese notaries affix their signatures and office seal to certificates that attest to the probity of claims made by the applicants. By regulation, notaries are empowered to issue certificates only after they conclude that the applicant's claims are true. Notarial certificates of birth, death, marriage, divorce, no criminal record and pre-1981 adoptions are, at best, secondary evidence of the events they purport to document. Although these certificates are secondary evidence, they are used because primary evidence is not standardized, is easily forged, and difficult to evaluate. Notarial certificates are easier to interpret than primary evidence and theoretically represent an expert judgment on the part of the notarial official as to the facts documented.

The certificates can be based upon primary evidence, secondary evidence, testimony of the applicant or other parties, or investigation by the notary. For most notarial certificates of birth or adoption, the primary underlying documentation is the household register (HHR) which appears to be extremely susceptible to fraud and manipulation, especially if the holder of the HHR lives outside of a major metropolitan area. Notarial certificates rarely cite the basis for their issuance.*

Thus a certificate in itself may not be adequate evidence of the facts claimed, and is best used in conjunction with primary and contemporaneous secondary evidence: old land deeds and old family registers; letters or money receipts; family records from countries that have reliable public documents; school and medical records. In relationship cases, especially where the petitioner left China years before, the best evidence of relationship, or lack of it, would be the Hong Kong Certificate of Registered Particulars (for petitioners who lived in Hong Kong), or the petitioner's immigration and/or naturalization file.

Local conditions often do not permit consular officers to conduct on-site inquiries. However, if there is a reason to doubt the claims in a certificate issued by a Chinese notary, the American consular post in the issuing office's area may verify the information through the notarial office, or, if possible, by field investigation. A copy of the document in question should be submitted to the post, as well as detailed reasons for the suspicion. For suspected relationship fraud, the first step should be a check of the information contained in the INS file or Joint Voluntary Agency (JVA) files for former refugees. Given sufficient reason, notaries do investigate, and in some cases, revoke certificates. Several months should be allowed for a reply.

Individuals residing outside of China may obtain notarial certificates from the notarial office with jurisdiction over the county of previous residence. Chinese relatives or friends may request issuance of certificates on behalf of someone now living abroad. Relatives and friends should have specific written authorization from the interested party before they request certificates. Alternatively, persons in need of notarial documents may contact the PRC Embassy or Consulate nearest to their residence abroad and ask that the request be forwarded to the appropriate notarial office. Obtaining a notarial certificate through a PRC Embassy or Consulate can require considerable time.

BIRTH CERTIFICATE

Available in the form of notarial certificates, which are secondary evidence. Notarial certificates of birth (Chu Sheng Gong Zheng Shu or Chu Sheng Zheng Ming Shu) for persons living in or recently departed from China are generally reliable, but are best used in conjunction with other evidence. They are most often based upon an AHHR, (Household Record) which is easily susceptible to fraud, especially in villages. Notarial birth certificates for persons long departed from China are most likely based merely upon the testimony of interested parties.

While some notarial birth certificates will list stepparents or adoptive parents along with natural parents, this is not always the case. In some cases, the certificates will list only the natural parents, covering up an adoption.

Some applicants will present notarial certificates of relationship (Guan Xi Gong Zheng [or Zheng Ming] Shu) in lieu of notarial birth certificates. These certificates of relationship are unreliable and tend to be based solely upon the testimony of interested parties. Notarial birth certificates should be required. Care should be taken with any certificate that lists step relationships. These relationships are as of the date of issuance of the certificate only. Marriage certificates should also be required.

[DarkCloudXD 0]

Thanks for the information and the great help but unfortunately my fiance has just told me that her mom does not possess a Household Record. I'm really at a loss on how to get this birth certificate. Obviously my fiance is living in Canada right now so going to a Notary Office in China is sort of out of the question since were not even in the country. Has anyone else in a similar position as me been able to get some sort of documentation through a canadian embassy at guangzhou?

[Moonandstar 6]

We're in the process of getting a birth certificate for my girl as well.

As sjr09 said, you're best off contacting the Chinese embassy in Canada, and following the instructions from there. From what i've read up until now, the only things that should be required for a birth certificate, is the marriage certificate of the parents, and probably your fiancee's household book. Then again, China is bureaucracies over and over again. I would'nt be suprised if they needed to have your fiancee's mom's household book on hand, but its worth a try.

Again, like sjr09 said, it will be a long process to get this, but im sure there's some way or other to get it done. And your best place to start the trail is the Chinese embassy.

Good luck.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Moonandstar

[jamesv 3]

Does anyone have an example of the correct form of this birth certificate by any chance? (the 4-page English/Chinese one). I think we're on the right track, but I just want to confirm we're getting the right document. I've googled everywhere but can't find it!

[clairegie 265]

This is a 5 year old thread, I think you should open a new one.