Israel's military stunned by the failure of its air war

[Bosco 1]

i'd be willing to bet they'll have them on their next order

More on their "next order" here US speeds up bomb delivery

July 22, 2006

Weapons

U.S. Speeds Up Bomb Delivery for the Israelis

By DAVID S. CLOUD and HELENE COOPER

WASHINGTON, July 21 — The Bush administration is rushing a delivery of precision-guided bombs to Israel, which requested the expedited shipment last week after beginning its air campaign against Hezbollah targets in Lebanon, American officials said Friday.

The decision to quickly ship the weapons to Israel was made with relatively little debate within the Bush administration, the officials said. Its disclosure threatens to anger Arab governments and others because of the appearance that the United States is actively aiding the Israeli bombing campaign in a way that could be compared to Iran’s efforts to arm and resupply Hezbollah.

The munitions that the United States is sending to Israel are part of a multimillion-dollar arms sale package approved last year that Israel is able to draw on as needed, the officials said. But Israel’s request for expedited delivery of the satellite and laser-guided bombs was described as unusual by some military officers, and as an indication that Israel still had a long list of targets in Lebanon to strike.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Friday that she would head to Israel on Sunday at the beginning of a round of Middle Eastern diplomacy. The original plan was to include a stop to Cairo in her travels, but she did not announce any stops in Arab capitals.

Instead, the meeting of Arab and European envoys planned for Cairo will take place in Italy, Western diplomats said. While Arab governments initially criticized Hezbollah for starting the fight with Israel in Lebanon, discontent is rising in Arab countries over the number of civilian casualties in Lebanon, and the governments have become wary of playing host to Ms. Rice until a cease-fire package is put together.

To hold the meetings in an Arab capital before a diplomatic solution is reached, said Martin S. Indyk, a former American ambassador to Israel, “would have identified the Arabs as the primary partner of the United States in this project at a time where Hezbollah is accusing the Arab leaders of providing cover for the continuation of Israel’s military operation.”

The decision to stay away from Arab countries for now is a markedly different strategy from the shuttle diplomacy that previous administrations used to mediate in the Middle East. “I have no interest in diplomacy for the sake of returning Lebanon and Israel to the status quo ante,” Ms. Rice said Friday. “I could have gotten on a plane and rushed over and started shuttling around, and it wouldn’t have been clear what I was shuttling to do.”

Before Ms. Rice heads to Israel on Sunday, she will join President Bush at the White House for discussions on the Middle East crisis with two Saudi envoys, Saud al-Faisal, the foreign minister, and Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the secretary general of the National Security Council.

The new American arms shipment to Israel has not been announced publicly, and the officials who described the administration’s decision to rush the munitions to Israel would discuss it only after being promised anonymity. The officials included employees of two government agencies, and one described the shipment as just one example of a broad array of armaments that the United States has long provided Israel.

One American official said the shipment should not be compared to the kind of an “emergency resupply” of dwindling Israeli stockpiles that was provided during the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, when an American military airlift helped Israel recover from early Arab victories.

David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, said: “We have been using precision-guided munitions in order to neutralize the military capabilities of Hezbollah and to minimize harm to civilians. As a rule, however, we do not comment on Israel’s defense acquisitions.”

Israel’s need for precision munitions is driven in part by its strategy in Lebanon, which includes destroying hardened underground bunkers where Hezbollah leaders are said to have taken refuge, as well as missile sites and other targets that would be hard to hit without laser and satellite-guided bombs.

Pentagon and military officials declined to describe in detail the size and contents of the shipment to Israel, and they would not say whether the munitions were being shipped by cargo aircraft or some other means. But an arms-sale package approved last year provides authority for Israel to purchase from the United States as many as 100 GBU-28’s, which are 5,000-pound laser-guided bombs intended to destroy concrete bunkers. The package also provides for selling satellite-guided munitions.

An announcement in 2005 that Israel was eligible to buy the “bunker buster” weapons described the GBU-28 as “a special weapon that was developed for penetrating hardened command centers located deep underground.” The document added, “The Israeli Air Force will use these GBU-28’s on their F-15 aircraft.”

American officials said that once a weapons purchase is approved, it is up to the buyer nation to set up a timetable. But one American official said normal procedures usually do not include rushing deliveries within days of a request. That was done because Israel is a close ally in the midst of hostilities, the official said.

Although Israel had some precision guided bombs in its stockpile when the campaign in Lebanon began, the Israelis may not have taken delivery of all the weapons they were entitled to under the 2005 sale.

Israel said its air force had dropped 23 tons of explosives Wednesday night alone in Beirut, in an effort to penetrate what was believed to be a bunker used by senior Hezbollah officials.

A senior Israeli official said Friday that the attacks to date had degraded Hezbollah’s military strength by roughly half, but that the campaign could go on for two more weeks or longer. “We will stay heavily with the air campaign,” he said. “There’s no time limit. We will end when we achieve our goals.”

The Bush administration announced Thursday a military equipment sale to Saudi Arabia, worth more than $6 billion, a move that may in part have been aimed at deflecting inevitable Arab government anger at the decision to supply Israel with munitions in the event that effort became public.

On Friday, Bush administration officials laid out their plans for the diplomatic strategy that Ms. Rice will pursue. In Rome, the United States will try to hammer out a diplomatic package that will offer Lebanon incentives under the condition that a United Nations resolution, which calls for the disarming of Hezbollah, is implemented.

Diplomats will also try to figure out the details around an eventual international peacekeeping force, and which countries will contribute to it. Germany and Russia have both indicated that they would be willing to contribute forces; Ms. Rice said the United States was unlikely to.

Implicit in the eventual diplomatic package is a cease-fire. But a senior American official said it remained unclear whether, under such a plan, Hezbollah would be asked to retreat from southern Lebanon and commit to a cease-fire, or whether American diplomats might depend on Israel’s continued bombardment to make Hezbollah’s acquiescence irrelevant.

Daniel Ayalon, Israel’s ambassador to Washington, said that Israel would not rule out an international force to police the borders of Lebanon and Syria and to patrol southern Lebanon, where Hezbollah has had a stronghold. But he said that Israel was first determined to take out Hezbollah’s command and control centers and weapons stockpiles.

Thom Shanker contributed reporting for this article.

[Scott & Lai 12]

I have toured all though Israel. There is NOTHING but rock there. I live in Phoenix...I KNOW rock and it is where the fighting is.

Despite your claims, it's obvious that you haven't seen much of either Israel OR Palestine.

Apart from the Negev and Judean deserts and a lot of the Dead Sea area, both countries are intensively farmed. If you drive from Tel Aviv through Lod to Ramallah, all you will see are farms. I find the look of the land very similar to the farms and ranches of central and south Texas (only with mountains.)

Here is a pic looking out from my husband's family's farm in the northern West Bank:

Nothing but rock ?

And actually before modern Israel the Palestinians were like the red headed step children of the Middle East. If there was someone to abuse they were it. Never mind the infighting amongst themselves. The only reason that the Arab states support Palestinian now is that it provides them with a good excuse to not deal with either group. If Israel were not their do you think it would be all brotherhood and love? No way! They would make sure the Palestinians stayed on their rock and never advanced to any other level politically, economically, or militarily.

Again, where do you get this absurd idea ????? Source, please.

Now I do have a separate question. When I was in Israel the seemed to be a rift between Israeli Arabs (Muslims who were Arab and did not proclaim to be Palestinian) and the Palestinians. Why is that? This question IS out of ignorance on my part.

I am not sure what you are referring to. The Muslim Arabs in Israel call themselves Palestinians. (It is the Israeli government which prefers the term "Arab Israelis.") Perhaps you are speaking of the Druze living in Israel ? They are indeed Arabs, but not Muslim. Palestinians often DO see the Druze as collaborators with the occupation, as they serve in the Israeli Army and take part in Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people.

Is the American Dream not making something out of nothing? The reality of that is that first the original people of the land had to be displaced before others could identify with this (originally Europeans)? If the original people are cleared out all of a sudden there is truly nothing and people can start to claim and build. The Native Americans were moved out in the US. The Palestinians were moved out in the case of Israel.

What ???? The Native Americans were moved out of the U.S. ????????? Where were they moved to ???? If you are referring to the forced displacement of Native Americans onto "reservations"..... well these are all inside the U.S. And what was done to the Native Americans is a very shameful part of U.S. history, much like the institution of slavery. It's beyond belief that anyone would try to justify such acts today -- quite frankly, it seems to be some kind of white supremacist idea of "progress."

Over the last 80 years, many Palestinians have indeed been driven from their homes and land in what would become the modern state of Israel, and in what became Israel's illegal settlements in the West Bank and Gaza. About 700,000 Palestinians were driven out of Israel "proper." Many of these families still live in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and other Arab states. Israel refuses to allow them to return to their property, or to compensate them for their losses, in complete violation of international law and the Geneva Convention. Meanwhile, Israel imports Jewish individuals and families from all over the world and subsidizes them to squat in the homes and farms and cities stolen from the Palestinians. This is the festering wound at the root of the conflict.

So, the Palestinians and Jordan and Syria and Iran would welcome peacful relations with Israel? All calls for driving Israel into the sea would cease?

Errr.... Jordan has already signed a peace treaty with Israel.

And Saudi Arabia initiated a peace proposal in 2002 that recognizes Israel's right to sovereignty and secures its borders, based on the 1967 armistice lines. It was Israel that rejected it.

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

Perhaps I should have said "Hezbollah" instead of "Jordan"..... but in effect they are essentially the same thing, since the legitimate government of Jordan seems powerless to control Hezbollah.

Huh ????????? Hezbollah is in LEBANON, not JORDAN. Jordan is an ENTIRELY separate country with NO Hezbollah. Please see a map.

Without Israel's continued aggression into and occupation of other people's land, there would be no Hamas or Hezbollah.

Didn't that land belong to Jewish people for thousands of years?

Historical evidence does not substantiate this claim.

Who owned your land 2000 years ago ? Should you be forced to "give it back" to anyone and everyone who shows up and claims to be descended from the original owner ?

Palestinians lost their property within the living memory of the past 80 years, and it has all been well documented. Many Palestinians have the actual deeds, surveys and even the house keys to their former homes.

Any court of law worth its salt could easily decide this one. Except, of course, a kangaroo court.

Uh...I stand corrected.....I was actually thinking of Lebanon all along, but for some reason wrote Jordan...

[mawilson 2,133]

Heehee.

There is no "right of conquest" to annex territory through war, at least under international law or the Geneva Convention, to which Israel is a signatory.

How convenient that the State of Israel was only created 60 years ago. Had it been created

100 years ago, it would have been ok, I guess, since the right of conquest was a principle of

international law back then.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Heehee.

There is no "right of conquest" to annex territory through war, at least under international law or the Geneva Convention, to which Israel is a signatory.

How convenient that the State of Israel was only created 60 years ago. Had it been created

100 years ago, it would have been ok, I guess, since the right of conquest was a principle of

international law back then.

Unfortunately for the Zionists' grand plan for "Eretz Yisrael," bitter reality has reared its ugly head. A day late and a dollar short....

My condolences.

[mawilson 2,133]

Unfortunately for the Zionists' grand plan for "Eretz Yisrael," bitter reality has reared its ugly head. A day late and a dollar short....

My condolences.

hehehee

It's not over yet. It is too late for Israel to drive the Palestinians out of the entire land

between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, but things can still get much worse -- I only

hope that someday the Palestinians and the Israelis are represented by people who are

truly interested in ending the war and living in peace with each other.

[ual777 0]

I wish people would stop talking about repaying the indians and the "theft of their land". Unless someone here is appx. 200 years old, I don't think you made the walk on the trail of tears.

Some native americans recieve 90K a YEAR from casinos, doing NOTHING. Sounds pretty fair to me.

Yes it was terrible what happened, I'm not denying that, but it happened HUNDREDS of years ago. Its time to let that stuff go and get with the program.

I really dont give a damn about your opinion, we are still fighting in the courts and your reply just confims how racism still exist in the usa. You will be surprised how money in this society can change anyone opinion

it's alll about how much money you cnontribute no matter where it comes from. Is that armerican society???

you can buy anything if you have enough money... money rules this world and you better remember that. as for native americans we found what your weak point it.l.. if you want to go one on one with me you better have a lot of guns like custers as i remember we stuck knives in his ears so he can hear better in the next life....

How am I racist, and why would I want to go "one on one" with you? This is ludacris. I really don't care what happened to Custer, and I don't care about going 'one on one' with you. You post sounds rather threatening. If you read my post, which OBVIOUSLY you didn't, you would see that I said it was terrible, but it HAPPENED 200 years ago! It is because of people who hold on to what happened hundreds of years ago that we have territorial disputes like we have today in Kashmir, Israel, Palestine, Kurdistan, etc. Again, GET WITH THE PROGRAM!

What do you suggest as fair payment to the native americans?

Just because one people was the victim of an injustice hundreds of years ago does NOT give them the right to take back Manhatten. That would be doing the same thing that was done.

[Risto 0]

Unfortunately for the Zionists' grand plan for "Eretz Yisrael," bitter reality has reared its ugly head. A day late and a dollar short....

My condolences.

hehehee

It's not over yet. It is too late for Israel to drive the Palestinians out of the entire land

between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, but things can still get much worse -- I only

hope that someday the Palestinians and the Israelis are represented by people who are

truly interested in ending the war and living in peace with each other.

you are naive

http://groups.msn.com/WHOISTHEENEMY

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Unfortunately for the Zionists' grand plan for "Eretz Yisrael," bitter reality has reared its ugly head. A day late and a dollar short....

My condolences.

hehehee

It's not over yet. It is too late for Israel to drive the Palestinians out of the entire land

between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, but things can still get much worse -- I only

hope that someday the Palestinians and the Israelis are represented by people who are

truly interested in ending the war and living in peace with each other.

Insha'allah peace will come.

But many Zionists' ambitions to expand the modern State of Israel spread far wider than just between the Jordan River and Israel's current western border. Let us review some of their statements:

According to the founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl, the area of the Jewish State stretches: "From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates." (his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711.)

And as Rabbi Fischmann (member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine) testified before the U.N. Special Committee of Enquiry on July 9, 1947, "The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon."

Sometimes the phrase is given as "from the Nile to the Euphrates" rather than the "from the Brook of Egypt," which may refer to a smaller waterway about 100 miles east of the Nile. Either way, this ambitious plan would mean the confiscation of a huge amount of Arab territory.

And some would say that Israel's track record of seizing, occupying and colonizing its neighbors' lands is proof that those in power still believe in the plan for a "Greater Israel."

[iceyspots 0]

I have toured all though Israel. There is NOTHING but rock there. I live in Phoenix...I KNOW rock and it is where the fighting is. And actually before modern Israel the Palestinians were like the red headed step children of the Middle East. If there was someone to abuse they were it. Never mind the infighting amongst themselves. The only reason that the Arab states support Palestinian now is that it provides them with a good excuse to not deal with either group. If Israel were not their do you think it would be all brotherhood and love? No way! They would make sure the Palestinians stayed on their rock and never advanced to any other level politically, economically, or militarily.

Now I do have a separate question. When I was in Israel the seemed to be a rift between Israeli Arabs (Muslims who were Arab and did not proclaim to be Palestinian) and the Palestinians. Why is that? This question IS out of ignorance on my part.

Joel

Is that not the American dream (including the displacement of a native people)? And it is no wonder that Israeli lobby in the US (where Jews have always been more accepted in comparison to Europe) wouldn’t jump on that idea and sell it to Congress?

Joel

What do you mean by this exactly?

Is the American Dream not making something out of nothing? The reality of that is that first the original people of the land had to be displaced before others could identify with this (originally Europeans)? If the original people are cleared out all of a sudden there is truly nothing and people can start to claim and build. The Native Americans were moved out in the US. The Palestinians were moved out in the case of Israel.

Joel

Recommended read Wounded Spirits in the Promised Land. It goes 500 pages in depth, that's if you're interested.

[minha_raposa 0]

Question:

If Hamas and Hezbollah disarmed, what would happen?

If Israel disarmed, what would happen?

Without Israel's continued aggression into and occupation of other people's land, there would be no Hamas or Hezbollah.

Israel's continued aggression????????!

If Israel's neighbors would stop attacking and just leave Israel the FUKC alone, then Israel would have no need for aggression or occupation of other peoples lands. Israel did not start this and they must defend themselves from being destroyed as promised by their Arab neighbors.

If Lebanon had disarmed Hizbollah as was required in the UN resolution, This sh!t would not be taking place right now.

Unless and until the legitimate Arab governments of neigboring countries get serious and STOP these rebel groups from harming Israel, then Israel has an obligation to protect their people by any means necessary.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Without Israel's continued aggression into and occupation of other people's land, there would be no Hamas or Hezbollah.

Israel's continued aggression????????!

If Israel's neighbors would stop attacking and just leave Israel the FUKC alone, then Israel would have no need for aggression or occupation of other peoples lands. Israel did not start this and they must defend themselves from being destroyed as promised by their Arab neighbors.

If Lebanon had disarmed Hizbollah as was required in the UN resolution, This sh!t would not be taking place right now.

Unless and until the legitimate Arab governments of neigboring countries get serious and STOP these rebel groups from harming Israel, then Israel has an obligation to protect their people by any means necessary.

Israel certainly DID start this. Which came first -- the Israeli occupation, or Hamas and Hezbollah, hmmmmm ?? Read your history a little more attentively. It was FIFTEEN and TWENTY YEARS, respectively, after Israel's 1967 war of aggression against its neighbors and continuing illegal occupation of their land, that the Lebanese and the Palestinians were driven to the point of supporting guerilla movements to liberate their land.

Specifically:

Hamas was founded in 1987, sparked by the beginning of the First Intifada ("uprising") of the Palestinian people, who (in case you didn't know) are struggling against the illegal Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

Also (in case you didn't know,) Israel's Mossad actively supported and helped fund the creation of Hamas (before the development of its military wing,) hoping it would be a "counterbalance" to the secular PLO. Israel hoped to add a religious slant to the conflict, in order to convince Europeans and Americans that the whole fight is an issue of Jew vs. Muslim, rather than the obvious dispute over real estate.

Hamas' original charter called for the destruction of the State of Israel, although it has since offered (and honored) various truces. On February 13, 2005, Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal declared that Hamas would stop armed struggle against Israel if Israel recognized the 1967 borders, withdrew from all Palestinian territories and accept the demand for Palestinian "Right of Return."

It is the ongoing aggression of the Israeli state against the Palestinian population that feeds popular support for Hamas.

Hezbollah (in case you didn't know) was founded in Lebanon in 1982 to fight the Israeli Occupation Forces who illegally occupied southern Lebanon until the year 2000 (and are still occupying the disputed Shebaa Farms area in south Lebanon.)

It is the ongoing aggression of the Israeli state against the Lebanese people that feeds popular support for Hezbollah.

So again....... if Israel had stopped attacking its neighbors and illegally occupying and colonizing their land (as demanded by numerous UN resolutions) there would indeed BE no Hamas or Hezbollah.

[dalegg 143]

Israel certainly DID start this. Which came first -- the Israeli occupation, or Hamas and Hezbollah, hmmmmm ?? Read your history a little more attentively. It was FIFTEEN and TWENTY YEARS, respectively, after Israel's 1967 war of aggression against its neighbors and continuing illegal occupation of their land, that the Lebanese and the Palestinians were driven to the point of supporting guerilla movements to liberate their land.

I'm taking it for granted that you don't believe that Israel's 1967 "War of Agression" (this would be the 6 day war, right?) was a preemptive attack? Do you think there is any reason Israel might have perceived a threat from it's neighbors that war was immanent?

[I'm Gone 60]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

1949 Armistice Agreements

In 1949, Israel signed separate armistices with Egypt on 24 February, Lebanon on 23 March, Transjordan on 3 April, and Syria on 20 July. Israel was generally able to create its own borders, comprising 78 percent of Mandatory Palestine, 50 percent more than the UN partition proposal allotted it. These cease-fire lines were known afterwards as the "Green Line". The Gaza Strip and the West Bank were occupied by Egypt and Transjordan respectively.

The United Nations estimated that 711,000 Palestinians fled, emigrated or were forcibly removed during this conflict. [66] Some historians suggest that the Palestinians fled due to orders from Arab generals, though no British, Israeli, or American archive record suggests so. Ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people is known to have occured in the Galilee region. However, the likeliest explanation for the exodus is fear, driven by rumors of massacres by Irgun and the Haganah. At the end of the conflict 85% of Palestinians living within the boundaries of Israel were forced into permanent exile by the Israelis; those who remained were subject to martial law until 1966. 94% of Palestinian property was siezed by the Israeli government and then distributed to Jewish Israelis.

[Ban Hammer 13,676]

Israel certainly DID start this. Which came first -- the Israeli occupation, or Hamas and Hezbollah, hmmmmm ?? Read your history a little more attentively. It was FIFTEEN and TWENTY YEARS, respectively, after Israel's 1967 war of aggression against its neighbors and continuing illegal occupation of their land, that the Lebanese and the Palestinians were driven to the point of supporting guerilla movements to liberate their land.

The war was initiated by an Israeli response to Egyptian aggression, when Israel launched a preemptive attack against Egypt

On May 18, 1967, Egypt formally requested the withdrawal of UNEF from Sinai. UN Secretary-General U Thant complied, thus removing the international buffer which had existed along the Egyptian-Israeli border since 1957. Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser then began the re-militarization of the Sinai, and concentrated tanks and troops on the border with Israel.

before you get wound up about the term "pre-emptive attack" read what forces egypt were placing on the border. "On May 30, Jordan signed a five-year mutual defensive treaty with Egypt, thereby joining the military alliance already in place between Egypt and Syria. Jordanian forces were placed under the command of Egyptian General Abdul Munim Riad. This put Arab forces just 17 kilometres from Israel's coast, a jump-off point from which a well coordinated tank assault would likely cut Israel in two within half an hour."

don't want to be attacked? don't position tanks on the border! (btw massing of tanks has been a long term indicator of attack).

link

ergo, your statement of "Israel's 1967 war of aggression against its neighbors" is astroturfing.

Edited July 23, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[Nikita2Charles 32]

How many UN resolutions has Zionist state Obliged to?

IT's all talk but no Action, they should abolished that organisation, it's there for nothing when it comes to international conflict, only stands with the contries with the Voting Power on the UN Block, what bout the little guys?