Immigration Reform

[sachinky 465]

If every person was allowed to pick and choose where they can live and work, then we might as well erase borders. The balance/checks are in place for a reason, to prevent massive influx of immigrants which the social/financial infrastructure would not be able to sustain.

Most countries follow offer marriage or employment based visas. That's just the way it is. The U.S. is not unique, in this regard. Also, the U.S. does allow a whole category of visas, including business and investment, religious workers, international organizations, exchange students, atheletes and entertainers et al. Pretty much runs through the alphabet.

As much as I'd like to be able to, I can't pack my bags and decide to move to France tomorrow just because I really like French bread and wine.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Sousuke,

you probably realize that mass deportations are somewhat of a logistical impossibility. How are you going to round up some 8,000,000 people and put them in airplanes "home?" And who is going to pay for that? And what about the political implications of a presidential candidate who proposes such undertaking? Finally, who's going to fill their jobs at the plants, jobs that many Americans wouldn't want to fill at any price? How 'bout the Americans who'd lose their jobs if undocumented business owners had to close their businesses?

You are a smart guy; you understand the difference between a dream world and a suitable solution. While I understand that you, in theory, would want a perfect society, without illegals and without crime, it's not going to happen. For that reason I asked the question: how should the up-and-coming immigration reform look like in regard to those millions already here?

[ScottThuy 140]

Bob,

Some of your points really make me wonder.... If a drug dealer employs legal US citizens should we allow the activity to continue to keep them employed.. illegal is illegal... we are looking at double digit unemployment and you are worried about who will do the work?

It is clear that there are logistical concerns in place... but should we allow those folks to continue to break the laws because it is inconvenient for us to enforce them?

[rika60607 215]

...are random picks by ICE any better than mass deportation?

It is outrageous that the US has essentially an open border with another country. This needs to be fixed first. Then you can deport 8 million people if needed. It's not so hard BTW. Just use National Guard forces for it That's what national guard is for.

As is, people deported by ICE are treated as criminals and allowed only very limited amount of possessions to be taken with them, if any. So, just apply the same 8 million times. It's easy to do once the border is sealed. I am very sure that once that became a trend many people would prefer to leave voluntarily.

[Thai Rath 1]

Saying that these immigrants hold "jobs that many Americans wouldn't want to fill at any price" is just how businesses justify circumventing immigration and employment laws -- with no basis in fact.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Sousuke,

you probably realize that mass deportations are somewhat of a logistical impossibility. How are you going to round up some 8,000,000 people and put them in airplanes "home?" And who is going to pay for that? And what about the political implications of a presidential candidate who proposes such undertaking? Finally, who's going to fill their jobs at the plants, jobs that many Americans wouldn't want to fill at any price? How 'bout the Americans who'd lose their jobs if undocumented business owners had to close their businesses?

You are a smart guy; you understand the difference between a dream world and a suitable solution. While I understand that you, in theory, would want a perfect society, without illegals and without crime, it's not going to happen. For that reason I asked the question: how should the up-and-coming immigration reform look like in regard to those millions already here?

Simple.

Step 1. You make it so dangerous to hire an illegal immigrant that no one will touch them with a 10' pole (ie a crushing fine that will nearly bankrupt a person/business). You allow businesses time to adjust (say 6 months or a year) and you toughen the rules regarding employment checks. Any business that doesn't comply after that time has no excuses no matter what happens to USCs that work there. Without any source of income, illegal immigrants will either turn themselves in rather then starve or commit crimes.

Step 2. You make sure that law enforcement turns over all undocumented immigrants to ICE even if they are only a suspect in a crime.

Step 3. You require and enforce all aid agencies to check immigration status for people coming to them and require they report undocumented workers to ICE or face fines.

Finally, we need a Federal Law that overrides all others disallowing illegal immigrants access to publicly funded education. Here again if the minor can show they were not in their native country for x years then they can stay in school and become an LPR.

The recession has shown two things. 1. No work has caused illegal immigration to drop. 2. With 10% unemployment I'm pretty certain that an American WILL do any job. Also the recession hit the construction sector badly....lots of americans out of work from that....construction employs the most illegals. (My opinion...not sure if there is evidence of this)

Edited December 8, 2009 by Sousuke

[sachinky 465]

Since we're talking about immigration reform, I'd propose a few changes regarding the AOS/B2.

-- You can get married on a B2 but then you must return home to wait out for the CR1/K3. Just like everybody else.

-- OR if you are going to allow people to get married on a B2 and then file for AOS, then the K-1s should be scrapped altogether and one should be given a B2 or a temporary visit entry visa (similar to the K-1, one time entry) based on proof of bonafide relationship ("What is the purpose of your visit?" "To marry my fiance(e) and AOS" is an acceptable answer at the interview/POE) so they can be with their spouse and AOS.

--I do think AOS from work and student visas should be allowed since the individual is already in the U.S. and has presumably been present for several years (or will be) and has possibly met someone/fallen in love/gotten married and it's unfair on them to have to stop studying/working and go back and wait the process out. Presumably on a B2 you were going to return in a short while anyway, so it's not unreasonable to expect you to do so.

There's a lot of loopholes and inconsistencies out there. I'd just like to see the playing field even out a bit.

What do you guys think?

Edited December 9, 2009 by sachinky

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

. . . but should we allow those folks to continue to break the laws because it is inconvenient for us to enforce them?

Scott,

certainly not because it's inconvenient, but because it's near impossible. But even if it were possible, what will prevent this from happening is the fabric of our society with politicians desperate to get elected again and a pseudo democracy. No politician can propose such a thing as he would immediately lose 30 million Latino voters. So it ain't gonna happen.

Sousuke,

point taken, and I am not only with you in closing the borders and reinforcing them as the very first and quite essential step, but also believe the whole "no mercy" plan could work, in theory. But for the very reason I stated above -- political considerations -- no candidate and no party can go even near such a plan.

For the same reason there will be no amnesty. Whatever it will be, they will not use such an explosive term. But our elected officials will have to figure out what to do with 8 million undocumented people who have submerged into the fabric or our society, some into shady areas, others business owners who pay taxes and have assimilated so perfectly that one would never assume they are not US citizens. And while the net gets tighter and tighter, for immigrants as well as for employers who hire undocumented workers, it won't be a general roundup with mass deportations, guaranteed.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Just Bob

[justashooter 430]

Sousuke,

you probably realize that mass deportations are somewhat of a logistical impossibility. How are you going to round up some 8,000,000 people?

perhaps we should just contract the work to the japanese? we could call it "bataan 2".