When marriage on VJ fails...

[wellmux 3]

sorry to hear that

Edited November 22, 2009 by wellmux

[Simply_Uno 1]

My thoughts on this topic, compiled from several relevant posts:

I think love and immigration together is a complicated mix. I'm sure plenty of people could cite specific cases where the relationship was 100% genuine. And has remained a viable, functioning one for at least 3-5 years after the immigration procedure is over. Now, SOMETIMES, it may not even last those few years but then one must honestly analyze the relationship and aswer these questions -- was it really just a scam to get a GC? Or could it be that you did not know your SO well enough? How much time did you really spend together? And I mean, in person, not through a computer screen separated by thousands of miles? How attuned are you to each other's needs and wants? Were the cultural adjustments and social differences too much for the immigrant from a more traditional country to make? How well do you communicate with one another? Too much stress for a new marriage to handle? Every few weeks or so we read about cases where the petitioner will claim fraud as soon as the marriage goes downhill. Of course, we don't have enough facts to judge, so while it may or may not be a case of fraud, he/she (the USC) must also recognize his/her own part in the process.

Here's the thing -- I'm sure most petitioners always have some underlying fear/insecurity that they were played for a GC. And when the marriage goes sour, it's easier to blame the disintegration on that suspicion than maybe trying to get at the real cause of it. Maybe you just didn't know the person well enough prior to getting hitched. Maybe their personality is completely different than what they portrayed to you online. Maybe the cultural differences and adjustments are too much for a new marriage to handle. However, I will say this for myself. I am by nature, an extremely careful, bordering on paranoid, person and I take things like status and being legal and not getting into trouble extremely seriously. If every fight I had with my husband ended in an angry threat, idle or not, that he was going to "ship me back to where I came from," I'm not sure how long we would last. It is an issue of power and control.

And yes, of course, there are several, well documented cases of USC spouses getting the good ol' heave-ho as soon as the GC arrives in the mail. So yes, fraud does happen. The high fraud countries exist for a reason. Now, if you have actual proof that it did occur, then it is up to you to decide how to use that information. If you truly feel grievously deceived, then take whatever action you must.

Do some serious introspection before jumping to conclusions. IMO, actually that introspection should have take place BEFORE the tying of the knot. Here's the problem with love: When you're in it, even an actual red flag looming in front of your eyes, can be ignored or quite easily be explained away. The more people -- whether family, friends or well-wishers -- try to "warn" you, the more determined and convinced one becomes of the validity/sincerity of one's relationship. "The world is against us, then this MUST be true love, right? No one understands our feelings!"

Especially if one has never lived together with their SO or not spent much time in person together, please peruse the K-1 route. It gives one an opportunity to figure out if it is the real deal.

In the end, take RESPONSIBILITY for your actions.

yes, yes, yes

very well written and insightful post

UNO

[SuperDuper! 230]

Agreed, K1 is the way to go! Give yourselves some time together in real to decide if marriage is REALLY the right thing to do. Very responsible.

to OP: Sorry things did not work out. But your day in the sun will come after the rains

[Susita 175]

I agree 99% with Sachiky's post.

However, I think becoming engaged is a huge step & you should really know the person you're getting engaged to before you get engaged OR petition for a visa. I would have never petitioned for Luis to come here to "test" the waters for 90 days. Sure, it's better than jumping into marriage blind, but don't you think it's a bit irresponsible? Maybe that's one of the big reasons why the marriages fail on here, not just because of cultural differences.

We spent a lot of money and time on the visa process and I would never go through all of that for just some silly test run.

[sachinky 465]

Thanks for all the thumbs-up guys!

Just a clarification. I DON'T think the K-1 should used as a wife shopping pass. "Let's bring her over to see if she fits." Ideally/hopefully, by the time you're engaged or have made the decision to get engaged, you've already spent substantial quality time with your SO in person together, done the whole "boyfriend-girlfriend" routine, have an accurate idea who the other person is, personality-wise, and what their needs, wants, expectations are. Go right ahead and file for the K-1. The visa process is a time-consuming and expensive process and I can't imagine doing it just for the heck of it or for someone I wasn't absolutely sure was worth the time or the dollars.

My point was mainly directed towards those who talk online for 3-4 months and then get on a plane and fly halfway across the world to get married on the first/second meeting. That, generally speaking, is a recipe for disaster. Again, there ARE exceptions. However, what I meant to say was that, in situations like this or similar to it -- if you have never lived together with your SO or have not spent much time together in person -- then it makes better sense to go through the K-1 route rather than jumping the gun and getting married first. In THIS case, a test run IS better than a hasty jump into matrimony, IMO. Smart way to save broken hearts.

If more people fell in the first category, then repeat performances and broken engagements/marriages could be avoided to a large extent.

Just my $.02. What do you guys think?

[morocco4ever 63]

I certainly agree with being accountable for your own decisions. I am one of those that married on the first visit, but we had been talking online for a year. And this was not just a few minutes every few days. This was several hours every day. Also, and some might think this is silly, but I tested him long before I decided to fly out and marry him. It did work for us, but I see so many that hop the plane because he/she was nice and complimentary. to them.

Desperation is never a good thing when deciding to get married. And I see it time after time. I don't know how many times I have stressed how there are worse things in life than being single.

But then they come, they find out that they are not in the least compatible. Then the divorce happens, and yeah, it must have been GC fraud.

A person never knows for certain if a marriage will or will not work. But I can honestly say that if my husband and I divorced it was not because he used me for a GC. And I wouldn't ever attempt to send him back. Although I have a feeling he would want to go back if we weren't together.

[Susita 175]

If more people fell in the first category, then repeat performances and broken engagements/marriages could be avoided to a large extent.

I totally agree.

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

Desperation is never a good thing when deciding to get married. And I see it time after time. I don't know how many times I have stressed how there are worse things in life than being single.

I really think society puts too much pressure on people to be in a relationship. Some people should just never be in a relationship with anyone, let alone have kids. Studies have shown that single women are usually happier than married women, yet so many single women are desperate to get married and will marry the first person that will have them. That is a recipe for divorce. It should be ok for a woman to never marry and have kids without her being looked down on as an old maid that has something wrong with her. Perhaps there would be fewer hasty, then miserable marriages & divorces if there wasn't so much pressure put on women to fit themselves into the cookie cutter mold. It is so much easier to make intelligent decisions about who you should choose as a mate or IF you should really have one at all when you aren't operating under pressure, out of desperation or loneliness, etc.

[MikeMc 38]

My point exactly P. I can understand being pissed at your soon-to-be-ex, but why on god's green earth is the first thing we hear VISA FRAUD?? #######, really.

No one is twisting your arm to read those posts?

If you don't want to hear/read about them, then don't.

In most of those cases, the subject is clear enough for you to figure out before you go diving into them.

Same with the VAWA cases, most are pretty clear from the start.

Everyone's situation is slightly different, and you are privy to all of the details so the best any of us can do is to form an opinion. And we all know how useful opinions can be.

[Mrs.J06 4]

It really irks me when somebody claims fraud after a four year marriage, or if the USC has seen so many red flags but chose to ignore them all until the immigrant bails.

Underlying insecurities play a role for a lot of cases, I'm sure. I still don't get how people can marry when they barely know each other, but even if that's the case I think it's rarely fraud, it's just a matter of both sides "kinda wanna see how things go". Not the right way to do it, but not necessarily fraud.

The "how can I ship him/her back" attitude annoys me too, but I guess it's no different than the "how can I financially ruin him/her" attitude or the like between USC/USC couples when the marriage goes bad. Unfortunately a lot of bitter and disappointed people seek revenge and think it makes them feel better.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

It really irks me when somebody claims fraud after a four year marriage, or if the USC has seen so many red flags but chose to ignore them all until the immigrant bails.

Underlying insecurities play a role for a lot of cases, I'm sure. I still don't get how people can marry when they barely know each other, but even if that's the case I think it's rarely fraud, it's just a matter of both sides "kinda wanna see how things go". Not the right way to do it, but not necessarily fraud.

The "how can I ship him/her back" attitude annoys me too, but I guess it's no different than the "how can I financially ruin him/her" attitude or the like between USC/USC couples when the marriage goes bad. Unfortunately a lot of bitter and disappointed people seek revenge and think it makes them feel better.

amazing post sister, as always

[Dise 1]

It really irks me when somebody claims fraud after a four year marriage, or if the USC has seen so many red flags but chose to ignore them all until the immigrant bails.

Underlying insecurities play a role for a lot of cases, I'm sure. I still don't get how people can marry when they barely know each other, but even if that's the case I think it's rarely fraud, it's just a matter of both sides "kinda wanna see how things go". Not the right way to do it, but not necessarily fraud.

The "how can I ship him/her back" attitude annoys me too, but I guess it's no different than the "how can I financially ruin him/her" attitude or the like between USC/USC couples when the marriage goes bad. Unfortunately a lot of bitter and disappointed people seek revenge and think it makes them feel better.

Another brilliant post

"The difficulty with marriage is that we fall in love with a personality, but must live with a character."

-Peter Devries

For USC (mostly women)claiming fraud, these are some questions to ponder on:

Do you treat these men as commodities that have been imported and you are now like a mini-god that has to be worshipped?

Do you prevent them from having a life, making friends and socializing on his own?

Do you call him every 5mins just to know his whereabouts and yell when he shows up?

And most importantly do you treat him with respect and allow him retain a sense of dignity?

I agree with Mrs.J06.... in alot of cases it's not necessarily fraud.

[Mrs.J06 4]

Many times, I think it would help the USC to prevent being scammed if they would honestly sit down and ask themselves one simple question "Would this guy/woman marry me if I was living in his/her country and NOT be an American?"

If the answer is "hell no" - well, guess that's that.

Not a very popular response, I'm sure, but my 2c.

[Ellie-and-David 38]

Many times, I think it would help the USC to prevent being scammed if they would honestly sit down and ask themselves one simple question "Would this guy/woman marry me if I was living in his/her country and NOT be an American?"

If the answer is "hell no" - well, guess that's that.

Not a very popular response, I'm sure, but my 2c.

I can honestly say that if I had met my husband in my own country, I would have fallen as head over heels in love with him as I am now.

But I must confess, I might not have married him quite so quickly. I would have done the extended living in sin period first. I know he would too. Because marriage is just a piece of paper to me, but one that in this case, we needed.

[AdamF 1]

A very interesting discussion.

Every situation is obviously unique, but I just wanted to touch on something I don't think has been raised yet:

Personally, the assertion that the the immigrant has something to gain by going to the US saddens me

I am giving up my well paid job, my home, my beloved car, leaving behind my family and friends, the country I was born & raised in and more generally leaving my so-called 'comfort zone'. Not to mention moving to a country where *begin wild generalisation* everyone owns a gun and goes around shooting each other *end wild generalisation*

So residence in the US is not something I see as a 'perk'.

Don't get me wrong, I love the US, but it's not all 'benefits' as some people make out.

Thanks,

Adam