Beware of the smiling lady

[O and Mr.P 0]

I had same issue in Moskow embassy this week. Seems that it happens more often now. Counsel had all paperwork and also took 5cm thick folder of our e-mails. I pray that she just want to read them all

[O and Mr.P 0]

Sorry, my previous post is for a different topic. What I can say here is that I also got 221(g) form. But in my case it says that they need administrative processing

Edited November 22, 2009 by O and Mr.P

[baron555 934]

Just to update everyone.

First, much thanks for all the warm wishes and prayers. We folks are great; don't forget it.

I just got back from sending 10 pounds of documents and photos via FedEx to the Embassy. Hope to get that large box there by Wed.

I also have scanned in a select bunch of emails sent and received over our lifetime together, re-printed all our phone records, re-printed the Skype calls (about 230 Skype calls for us with many over 2 hours in length), and sent 36 photos (with labels affixed to the back stating who/where/when and case #).

Tonight I will email the Embassy my new 3 page Fiance Letter of Intent & Statement of Relationship letter. I will also send them all the photos inserted onto Word document pages, the last three months of phone records and all the Skype logs. Hopefully the lady will read these and grant our visa and just wait for the FedEx package for their files.

What I tell them in this letter, and which became crystal clear to me as I read through our many emails since the beginning, is here is a couple that has gone through the natural progression of a relationship. You can just see and feel it through the emails. I should have done this for the interview but that is behind us. Actually we communicate more often than a couple who lives in the same city!!

My only real fear is that I have created a monster?!!! I can see fiancees and fiances lining up outside the Embassy toting 50 kg of documents

Yes the lady said, "Even More"! So More is what she will get.

Edited November 22, 2009 by baron555

[SuperDuper! 230]

I had same issue in Moskow embassy this week. Seems that it happens more often now. Counsel had all paperwork and also took 5cm thick folder of our e-mails. I pray that she just want to read them all

Letz hope that the CO is a real nosey BusyBody, who likes to be overly involved in strangers' lives!

[O and Mr.P 0]

Letz hope that the CO is a real nosey BusyBody, who likes to be overly involved in strangers' lives!

Well, seems so. This is their job to dig deep Look at what baron555 is writing:

Alla gave her everything, the FedEx receipts, my birthday card to her written in Russian, and she kept asking for more evidence...... On the form she checked the boxes asking for More Emails, More Photos, More Phone receipts.

In my case CO also took this folder of e-mails, I guess she needs them for some reason

Edited November 23, 2009 by O and Mr.P

[O and Mr.P 0]

Alla said she was very nice and always smiling but in the end she gave her a 221g form and said they needed more evidence.

On the form she checked the boxes asking for More Emails, More Photos, More Phone receipts. Of course we're both pretty depressed right now but we will overcome. #######!

I think you have no need to be depressed. In your case you know what to do and what should be fixed. So it will be fixed next Wednesday when CO will recieve everything she wanted. I believe Alla will get her visa next week

[Gone To Texas 0]

Just to update everyone.

First, much thanks for all the warm wishes and prayers. We folks are great; don't forget it.

I just got back from sending 10 pounds of documents and photos via FedEx to the Embassy. Hope to get that large box there by Wed.

I also have scanned in a select bunch of emails sent and received over our lifetime together, re-printed all our phone records, re-printed the Skype calls (about 230 Skype calls for us with many over 2 hours in length), and sent 36 photos (with labels affixed to the back stating who/where/when and case #).

Tonight I will email the Embassy my new 3 page Fiance Letter of Intent & Statement of Relationship letter. I will also send them all the photos inserted onto Word document pages, the last three months of phone records and all the Skype logs. Hopefully the lady will read these and grant our visa and just wait for the FedEx package for their files.

What I tell them in this letter, and which became crystal clear to me as I read through our many emails since the beginning, is here is a couple that has gone through the natural progression of a relationship. You can just see and feel it through the emails. I should have done this for the interview but that is behind us. Actually we communicate more often than a couple who lives in the same city!!

My only real fear is that I have created a monster?!!! I can see fiancees and fiances lining up outside the Embassy toting 50 kg of documents

Yes the lady said, "Even More"! So More is what she will get.

Actually, I think you have a great idea. All too often, during this long process, we start trying to cut corners and see just what we "need" to have for USCIS....and later for the State Department. Typically, in normal government operations, the more you innundate them with, the less likely they will want to wade through the vast pile of e-mails, chat archives, phone records, pay statements, tax records, photographs, receipts, etc. I even scanned in every little receipt from the various restaurants, shops....even gas stations (located along our vacation travel route here in Texas) just to show the dates, times locations that purchases were made whilst we were together....the boarding passes, and visa stamps corroborate the dates. I know it sounds paranoid, and probably overboard, but I scanned everything from my Moscow visit, and both of her Texas visits. I guess it's better safe than sorry.....and although we have not reached our date yet (this December), I know that it must be worrisome and definitely cause anxiety for a couple to have somebody delay their K1 because of "not enough". My fiance' might need a forklift with all of the documents that we have scanned, PDF'd, e-mailed, and FedEx'ed. Btw....does the Embassy have a loading dock?

Something else I have done, along with sending the monthly phone bills from AT&T each month to her, I have also scanned and forwarded every pay statement I receive each two weeks. Again....it might be overboard, but I want them to know that I can support my family, and show steady employment. I try to do it each time I get something, just so that I won't wake up the morning before the interview and make a mad scanning/e-mailing rush to get everything to her. One other thing was to forward copies of my current retirement statements to USCIS in the initial application packet, along with sending them to her as well for her interview. I am still probably a good 25 years from even considering retirement, but providing that annual statement documentation also shows that I have future plans for our financial stability, and an ability to provide for a family during my retirement years as well.

Just throwing it out there.

Peace Out.

- Mark

[Rob_Lesya 4]

[sigh]

It seems to me that so many of you are missing the whole point. While I certainly will agree with the general principle that it's better to bring too much evidence that's never needed then to not have enough --- as has been said before ---it's not about how many pages you print out or how many photos you submit. It's what that evidence demonstrates.

For example, Lesya was interviewed this past week by the same woman who apparently gave so many others in the forum such a difficult time. Lesya had 3 folders full of relationship evidence with her which included about 40 different photos. Lesya only had to show her ONE photo --- it was a photo of me in Chel with Lesya, her mother, her brother, her sister, her cousin, her cousin's husband, her niece, and her nephew. That one photo, along with the way in which Lesya answered the few questions that were asked made it clear to this woman that we had a sincere and genuine RELATIONSHIP. Compare that to someone who brings along 20 photos of the guy and the girl visiting the pyramids, for example. What does that prove about a relationship? You can easily go onto the travel sections of any one of a dozen Russian social networking sites and find hundreds of women who will gladly spend a week in Egypt with you if you pay all of the expenses. So these photos would prove nothing about a real relationship. But to have someone meet your mother? To introduce them to your entire family?

As far as Skype was concerned-- the only thing I sent was a log of the Skype calls --- they didn't even look at that. Hundreds of pages of Skype transcripts? What does it really prove? Certainly it is nice to show that you maintain communication with your fiancee. But, a Skype call is a CONVERSATION.... it is not a RELATIONSHIP.

I truly can't understand how we have guys on this forum who are engaged to Russia women ---- but the guy has never even been to Russia! He's never been to her hometown, never seen how she actually lives, he's never met her family, never met her friends. But he's going to be genuinely surprised when the Embassy questions the sincerity of this relationship. Guys-- you're asking this woman to become your WIFE --- you're going to become a part of her family, her family is going to become a part of yours. MEET THEM AND GET TO KNOW THEM. In the long run, you're gong to have a much happier and stronger marriage if you do... and the family that the two of you create here in the States is going to be a much richer one for it.

Gone to Texas:

--- I personally think you're going WAY overboard on the receipts, etc. But as was said in the beginning --- it's certainly better to have more evidence with you than not enough. But the MAIN thing that you have of value is evidence that you've met her on her home turf.... and you are lucky enough to be able to produce something that very few guys on this forum can produce --- evidence that she's actually met you on yours! THAT'S AWESOME! One simple photo of the two of you in your home (even better if you have a few other family members in the photo as well ) will carry more weight than a billion restaurant and gas station receipts!

Bottom line -- guys who are just beginning this K-1 process.... stop worrying about Skype calls or chat logs or taking vacations to some 3rd country together. At this point, think about how you can spend time with her, in her home, with her family. And now that it's becoming a little easier for Russian women to obtain tourist visas--- perhaps she could even come here to spend some time with you. The point is-- work on developing a real relationship and a genuine familial connection. It's certainly what you would be doing if she were an American fiancee --- why should it be any different because she's Russian?

Just my humble opinion.

[baron555 934]

I am sorry Rob, but just because you traveled to Russia and met her family and had one photo with you and her family means your relationship is any different than us who did not do this?

I do not want to start a fight with you and I congratulate you both. You just can not make such a categorical statement.

We chose not to meet in Russia and met in Ukraine instead. We have plenty of evidence of meeting her family and my family using the modern communication methods available.

Is that any different? One can not make categorical statements.

Obviously my statements are useless until we have the approval. But if we do get this, then will you eat your words?

You can not make any statements about my relationship with my RW as I can yours.

I am sure if you were to see our documentation you would approve of this as a valid relationship.

Yes my fiancee did not do well at the interview. For that I blame myself. But if the additional evidence I have provided gives us the visa, then that is all there is.

I have met their family, just not yet in person. That in itself is not a requirement. The only requirement is that we have a valid and real relationship and can show that.

Do you agree?

[Chris_Жанна 11]

I truly can't understand how we have guys on this forum who are engaged to Russia women ---- but the guy has never even been to Russia! He's never been to her hometown, never seen how she actually lives, he's never met her family, never met her friends. But he's going to be genuinely surprised when the Embassy questions the sincerity of this relationship. Guys-- you're asking this woman to become your WIFE --- you're going to become a part of her family, her family is going to become a part of yours. MEET THEM AND GET TO KNOW THEM. In the long run, you're gong to have a much happier and stronger marriage if you do... and the family that the two of you create here in the States is going to be a much richer one for it.

I personally find your comment offensive. You have no idea on what anyone's relationship is like other then your own. Some of us are not in financial positions to just jet set over to Russia.

Zhanna and I both paid equally for her ticket to come to here to visit. She was slow with work and I was in the process of transferring my professional license (which took 5 months) and paying student loans, car payments, relocating, etc.... So, together we both decided to see if she could get a tourist visa (She did) We both have tried to spend as much time as possible since our engagement, but we did what worked for us. We both paid for her travel. She spent time with my family, extended family and is great friends w/ my parents, brother/sister after her time here.

I did not sign up for a course on cultural anthropology, I petitioned for a marriage visa. I communicate with her family as much as possible and they all understand that this is a unique situation. Believe me I would love to see where she is from and to meet her family but financially and logistically was not possible at this time.

The only relationship you can judge is your own and you should probably stick to that instead of passing judgment on others.

[Rob_Lesya 4]

I am sorry Rob, but just because you traveled to Russia and met her family and had one photo with you and her family means your relationship is any different than us who did not do this?

I do not want to start a fight with you and I congratulate you both. You just can not make such a categorical statement.

We chose not to meet in Russia and met in Ukraine instead. We have plenty of evidence of meeting her family and my family using the modern communication methods available.

Is that any different? One can not make categorical statements.

Obviously my statements are useless until we have the approval. But if we do get this, then will you eat your words?

You can not make any statements about my relationship with my RW as I can yours.

I am sure if you were to see our documentation you would approve of this as a valid relationship.

Yes my fiancee did not do well at the interview. For that I blame myself. But if the additional evidence I have provided gives us the visa, then that is all there is.

I have met their family, just not yet in person. That in itself is not a requirement. The only requirement is that we have a valid and real relationship and can show that.

Do you agree?

Sorry Phil, but I'm not going to allow myself to once again get sucked into the kind of pointless "circular arguments" that you constantly desire to engage in on this forum, so this is going to be my only response.

I will say however, that you actually weren't one of the people I had in mind when writing the above. I understand that the "smiling lady" (ironically that was the exact same phrase that Lesya used to describe her) ... anyway, I understand that she ticked you off and now you're going to present truckloads of "evidence" to "show her." And if I were in your shoes, I'd probably do exactly the same thing. And I've read enough of your posts on here (and on other forums) over the past year to have no doubt that you genuinely believe that you have a sincere and legitimate relationship... and I have no reason to doubt that you do and I sincerely hope that Alla and Leonid get their visas soon.

However, I'm still going to stick by my belief that "boots on the ground" --- i.e., actually spending time with the person and developing a one-on-one relationship with your fiancee and their family is FAR more valuable than online conversations. Online communication is an excellent way to maintain communication with someone, but guys beginning this process should not delude themselves into thinking that spending hours on Skype gives the same depth of feeling and relationship and understanding as being with someone day in and day out for any extended period of time. And they certainly should not think that a CO evaluating their relationship is going to give online communication the same weight.

I'm also always going to maintain that guys should pay more attention to WHAT their evidence is showing then HOW MUCH they send -- the old "quality" versus "quantity" argument. The simple point I was trying to make with Lesya's example is that even though she had reams of evidence with her, it turned out not to be necessary because the one piece of evidence she showed (along with her answers to the questions she was asked) was sufficient as proof. Now one GREAT ADVANTAGE that I had here was Lesya herself--- she teaches English at the Uni in Chel so is extremely fluent in the language. Many (frankly, most) fiancees are not that fluent and so are probably going to have to rely a little more on the evidence to "tell the story." But again, guys beginning this process should not think that showing boxes full of chat transcripts is going to be given the same weight as having actually spent days, weeks, even months in person with someone.

Again, I have no doubts about the legitimacy of your relationship with Alla and I wish you nothing but success in getting the visas.... and in all of the VisaJourney that still lies ahead.

[LoveWaits 1]

I have to agree. I tried to say it that the most important thing is not the amount of evidence but that the C/O can sense the strength of your relationship. I should also mention, take it however you want, in addition to Katia coming to meet my kids in Germany I also spent a month in Russia with her. I met with her parents and asked their permission to marry, etc. Her father wrote a letter which he had notarized that explained that we met, about my asking his permission and detailing his support of our relationship. This letter was part of my evidence together with photos of our meeting with her family. I spent alot of time with her family so we actually had 3 of the 8 photos with her family in them. The C/O did ask about all of it (Did he meet your family? Did you meet his family? Have you met his kids? What are their names? etc etc)

So again, do what you think is best, but I think overall... its the interaction with the C/O, the sincerity in your beneficiaries answers and that the C/O walks away knowing "wow, that couple is in love".

Also, to be clear... If I was told they wanted more evidence they'd need to open their loading dock cause I'd send a semi-trailer load of stuff to them

[Rob_Lesya 4]

I truly can't understand how we have guys on this forum who are engaged to Russia women ---- but the guy has never even been to Russia! He's never been to her hometown, never seen how she actually lives, he's never met her family, never met her friends. But he's going to be genuinely surprised when the Embassy questions the sincerity of this relationship. Guys-- you're asking this woman to become your WIFE --- you're going to become a part of her family, her family is going to become a part of yours. MEET THEM AND GET TO KNOW THEM. In the long run, you're gong to have a much happier and stronger marriage if you do... and the family that the two of you create here in the States is going to be a much richer one for it.

I personally find your comment offensive. You have no idea on what anyone's relationship is like other then your own. Some of us are not in financial positions to just jet set over to Russia.

Zhanna and I both paid equally for her ticket to come to here to visit. She was slow with work and I was in the process of transferring my professional license (which took 5 months) and paying student loans, car payments, relocating, etc.... So, together we both decided to see if she could get a tourist visa (She did) We both have tried to spend as much time as possible since our engagement, but we did what worked for us. We both paid for her travel. She spent time with my family, extended family and is great friends w/ my parents, brother/sister after her time here.

I did not sign up for a course on cultural anthropology, I petitioned for a marriage visa. I communicate with her family as much as possible and they all understand that this is a unique situation. Believe me I would love to see where she is from and to meet her family but financially and logistically was not possible at this time.

The only relationship you can judge is your own and you should probably stick to that instead of passing judgment on others.

It sounds like you've made a great effort to have her get to know your family... and you've made as much of an effort as possible to get to know hers. So I'm not quite sure what you're offended about. It sounds like you've made as much of an effort as possible to develope a genuine familial relationship with your fiancee.

The only ones who should be offended are ones who have come onto this forum in the past and flatly said that since she's going to be coming to America, they saw no reason to get to know her family. They saw no value in visiting her hometown or getting to know her family. And some have even said that they don't expect her to maintain a connection to her Russian family once she's here --- her "family" is in America now. To me, THOSE are statements that are highly offensive and cruel.

As for passing judgement, anyone who goes through this K-1 process needs to understand that at quite a few points there are people who will officially pass judgement on their relationship.... and they need to go into it with open eyes and be made fully aware of the factors, attitudes, and other things which will help them to be successful when those judgements are passed.

[Nasturtium 500]

Baron-- I agree with Slim in that this goes in cycles of hard, easy, hard, etc. I hope your evidence works

From one high-fraud region to another.... my advice is that I think what they are actually looking for is for your relationship to make sense. People say photos, emails, etc... but I think they actually want it to seem logical. I did not have a single photo of myself with Ammar's family and we didn't have a wedding party because (gasp) we married in secret. No, MENA MO for fraud often includes whole families being in on it and throwing elaborate parties with pics for the embassy... But he and I met at work, doing work things, and we are the same basic age with the same degrees, etc. We knew people in common who are professionals in our field who knew both of us for about 5-10 years. We had a sensical relationship IMO. We met at work just like thousands of Americans do every year. I had 5 trips by the time he interviewed there (2 of them on work visas, working) but honestly the only evidence they ever saw was 3 trips-- my first work trip where we met, my engagement trip, and my marriage trip. When he went to interview they only asked him one question-- "why did your wife get divorced"-- to which he responded: "none of your business; that's her business." He said the woman shrugged her shoulders and said, "We will send your visa in 5-10 business days." Today is our fourth wedding anniversary and he's had his permanent GC for a couple of months and now his parents have both died, his family knows about us, and things are as they should be-- just life. You'll get there.

For the person who asked about a 221g which says Administrative processing... there isn't anything they want from you unless they ask. AP is just a waiting game. So sorry-- hopefully it will pass by quickly.

[Chris_Жанна 11]

It sounds like you've made a great effort to have her get to know your family... and you've made as much of an effort as possible to get to know hers. So I'm not quite sure what you're offended about. It sounds like you've made as much of an effort as possible to develope a genuine familial relationship with your fiancee.

The only ones who should be offended are ones who have come onto this forum in the past and flatly said that since she's going to be coming to America, they saw no reason to get to know her family. They saw no value in visiting her hometown or getting to know her family. And some have even said that they don't expect her to maintain a connection to her Russian family once she's here --- her "family" is in America now. To me, THOSE are statements that are highly offensive and cruel.

As for passing judgement, anyone who goes through this K-1 process needs to understand that at quite a few points there are people who will officially pass judgement on their relationship.... and they need to go into it with open eyes and be made fully aware of the factors, attitudes, and other things which will help them to be successful when those judgements are passed.

I was speaking more to what you said about that you (generic you) should travel to Russia. Part of me feels guilty that I am not in a position to go Russia, A bigger part of me feels even more guilty that my girl loves me enough to give up her family (her parents only child), friends, job that she loves, just to be with me. I too have attempted conversation with her parents (Zhanna as the translator) and I wrote a formal letter to her parents and asked her father permission to marry Zhanna, She said that was the only time she had seen her father cry.

She actually wanted me to concider to move to Russia but I don't speak Russian and she has taught English and can speak very well. I actually thought about moving to Russia, but we both decided that America would be most suitable. I really wish I could visit. I think it would really help me to understand certain aspects of our relationship but proximity is a luxury not afforded to us unfortunately. I have just been pretty high strung with reading about the recent difficulties in the last week out interview is in 2 weeks so, I've been on edge and may have personalized your statement, and took a portion of your statement to heart and out of context, sorry.

This home stretch is starting to wear me thin a bit and I need to just chill. Not, looking to argue with anyone here.