In America's Best Interests ?

[CanGal 1]

I apologize but this gets confusing!

If you want peace in Israel, it must come from the Lord. In order for the Lord to come there must be a false peace followed by the destruction of Israel. So, in order to support Israel to eventually have the Lord save it, you have to want Israel to be destroyed. That would actually be good news, because that would mean the Lord was coming back to save everything. On the other hand, it also means the end of the world.

I guess the important question is do you want the Lord to return? If you do, then you would want Israel to be destroyed and the end of days to come. If you don't then you are willing to put up with the violence and situation of today. That's an over simplification, but a logical consequence of this belief.

I guess you make sense. But I also believe that Israel will never be utterly destroyed but will come close to it if that makes sense. Do I want the Lord to come back, yes indeed and if I'm part of that generation that gets to witness that yay but if I'm not , I'm not. All I know is that I stand for Israel and their cause. I stand for the jewish people because those are God's chosen people. Like I said though i'm not an expert so I should probably stop now lol ....

[Ric Flair 0]

I apologize but this gets confusing!

If you want peace in Israel, it must come from the Lord. In order for the Lord to come there must be a false peace followed by the destruction of Israel. So, in order to support Israel to eventually have the Lord save it, you have to want Israel to be destroyed. That would actually be good news, because that would mean the Lord was coming back to save everything. On the other hand, it also means the end of the world.

I guess the important question is do you want the Lord to return? If you do, then you would want Israel to be destroyed and the end of days to come. If you don't then you are willing to put up with the violence and situation of today. That's an over simplification, but a logical consequence of this belief.

I guess you make sense. But I also believe that Israel will never be utterly destroyed but will come close to it if that makes sense. Do I want the Lord to come back, yes indeed and if I'm part of that generation that gets to witness that yay but if I'm not , I'm not. All I know is that I stand for Israel and their cause. I stand for the jewish people because those are God's chosen people. Like I said though i'm not an expert so I should probably stop now lol ....

Thanks for discussing that with me. I'm not attacking, just trying to see things to their logical conclusion. I still find it an interesting dilemma when it comes to supporting Israel since the only way it can be saved is through it's destruction. To support Israel, would be to support it's destruction. Kind of an oxymoron I suppose.

Oh well. It makes for an interesting discussion if nothing else.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

What inspired your interest?

I guess I always had a soft spot for the underdog....

[Joel Halfwassen 0]

What inspired your interest?

I guess I always had a soft spot for the underdog....

Who is the underdog in this case?

Joel

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

What inspired your interest?

I guess I always had a soft spot for the underdog....

Who is the underdog in this case?

Joel

Wait. Let me guess. The country with the fourth most powerful army in the world ??

[Joel Halfwassen 0]

No...I'm serious. The Jews who historically have been the Western (and Middle Eastern) world's underdog or the Palestinians who were the Middle East's whipping boy before present day Israel was formed?

Joel

Edited July 22, 2006 by Joel Halfwassen

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

No...I'm serious. The Jews who historically have been the Western (and Middle Eastern) world's underdog or the Palestinians who were the Middle East's whipping boy before present day Israel was formed?

Joel

What do Europe's crimes against the Jewish people have to do with the Palestinians ? The Palestinians were doing just fine, thank you, before the Zionist invasion.

[Alex+R 0]

No...I'm serious. The Jews who historically have been the Western (and Middle Eastern) world's underdog or the Palestinians who were the Middle East's whipping boy before present day Israel was formed?

Joel

What do Europe's crimes against the Jewish people have to do with the Palestinians ? The Palestinians were doing just fine, thank you, before the Zionist invasion.

Whoa. There's a history of Jewish oppression that goes back MUCH further back than Europe. I'm not jumping into the discussion here, but I just wanted to point that out.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

No...I'm serious. The Jews who historically have been the Western (and Middle Eastern) world's underdog or the Palestinians who were the Middle East's whipping boy before present day Israel was formed?

Joel

What do Europe's crimes against the Jewish people have to do with the Palestinians ? The Palestinians were doing just fine, thank you, before the Zionist invasion.

Whoa. There's a history of Jewish oppression that goes back MUCH further back than Europe. I'm not jumping into the discussion here, but I just wanted to point that out.

Jews and Muslims lived in Palestine together relatively peacefully before the Zionist invasion. The oldest Jewish families in Jerusalem (who have been there for hundreds of years) are fervent anti-Zionists.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

No...I'm serious. The Jews who historically have been the Western (and Middle Eastern) world's underdog or the Palestinians who were the Middle East's whipping boy before present day Israel was formed?

Joel

What do Europe's crimes against the Jewish people have to do with the Palestinians ? The Palestinians were doing just fine, thank you, before the Zionist invasion.

Whoa. There's a history of Jewish oppression that goes back MUCH further back than Europe. I'm not jumping into the discussion here, but I just wanted to point that out.

Jews and Muslims lived in Palestine together relatively peacefully before the Zionist invasion. The oldest Jewish families in Jerusalem (who have been there for hundreds of years) are fervent anti-Zionists.

Do you think that Israel can be recognized by it's neighboring countries under any kind of agreement or nothing short of dismantling Israel as a country will be satisfactory? In other words, is it too late for Israel to be embraced by the rest of the Middle East?

Edited July 22, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[iceyspots 0]

QUOTE(Ric Flair @ Jul 21 2006, 12:07 PM)

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

The benefit is the approval of God.

Amen to that!!!!

I don't understand how the comment would make us religioug extremists though. Everyone has to believe in something because if you don't then you'll fall for anything.

Not even sure what an "extremist" really is. Am I extremist for having 100% faith in my religion? Fine, then I'm an extremist and proud of it.

Hmm.. I dont exactly know what the official lines of extremeism is.. but I would guess it comes around to the point where a group of people are so hellbent that they have the one and only true religion and they will mow anybody down and murder to make their point and work on their plot to officially declare their religion the state religion of the world?

No...I'm serious. The Jews who historically have been the Western (and Middle Eastern) world's underdog or the Palestinians who were the Middle East's whipping boy before present day Israel was formed?

Joel

What do Europe's crimes against the Jewish people have to do with the Palestinians ? The Palestinians were doing just fine, thank you, before the Zionist invasion.

Whoa. There's a history of Jewish oppression that goes back MUCH further back than Europe. I'm not jumping into the discussion here, but I just wanted to point that out.

Jews and Muslims lived in Palestine together relatively peacefully before the Zionist invasion. The oldest Jewish families in Jerusalem (who have been there for hundreds of years) are fervent anti-Zionists.

Do you think that Israel can be recognized by it's neighboring countries under any kind of agreement or nothing short of dismantling Israel as a country will be satisfactory? In other words, is it too late for Israel to be embraced by the rest of the Middle East?

I'd imagine that even if a good solution came along the surrounding countries would still have a bad taste in their mouth... But one has to realize that neither group, Israelis nor Palestinians are going anywhere or being eradicated any time soon... Neither side would go so far as genocide

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Do you think that Israel can be recognized by it's neighboring countries under any kind of agreement or nothing short of dismantling Israel as a country will be satisfactory? In other words, is it too late for Israel to be embraced by the rest of the Middle East?

Well, Egypt and Jordan have already signed peace treaties with Israel.

As far as the others.... (answered this in the other thread as well):

And Saudi Arabia initiated a peace proposal in 2002 that recognizes Israel's right to sovereignty and secures its borders, based on the 1967 armistice lines. It was Israel that rejected it.

http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

[I'm Gone 60]

No, This is Not 'Our War'

by Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted Jul 21, 2006

My country has been "torn to shreds," said Fouad Siniora, the prime minister of Lebanon, as the death toll among his people passed 300 civilian dead, 1,000 wounded, with half a million homeless.

Israel must pay for the "barbaric destruction," said Siniora.

To the contrary, says columnist Lawrence Kudlow, "Israel is doing the Lord's work."

On American TV, former Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu says the ruination of Lebanon is Hezbollah's doing. But is it Hezbollah that is using U.S.-built F-16s, with precision-guided bombs, and 155-mm artillery pieces to wreak death and devastation on Lebanon?

No, Israel is doing this, with the blessing and without a peep of protest from President Bush. And we wonder why they hate us.

"Today, we are all Israelis!" brayed Ken Mehlman of the Republican National Committee to a gathering of Christians United for Israel.

One wonders if these Christians care about what is happening to our Christian brethren in Lebanon and Gaza, who have had all power cut off by Israeli air strikes, an outlawed form of collective punishment, that has left them with no sanitation, rotting food, impure water and days without light or electricity in the horrible heat of July.

When summer power outrages occur in America, it means a rising rate of death among our sick and elderly, and women and infants. One can only imagine what a hell it must be today in Gaza City and Beirut.

But all this carnage and destruction has only piqued the blood lust of the hairy-chested warriors at The Weekly Standard. In a signed editorial, "It's Our War," William Kristol calls for America to play her rightful role in this war by "countering this act of aggression by Iran with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?"

"Why wait?" Well, one reason is that the United States has not been attacked. A second is a small thing called the Constitution. Where does George W. Bush get the authority to launch a war on Iran? When did Congress declare war or authorize a war on Iran?

Answer: It never did. But these neoconservatives care no more about the Constitution than they cared about the truth when they lied into war in Iraq.

"Why wait?" How about thinking of the fate of those 25,000 Americans in Lebanon if we launch an unprovoked war on Iran. How many would wind up dead or hostages of Hezbollah, if Iran gave the order to retaliate for the slaughter of their citizens by U.S. bombs? What would happen to the 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, if Shi'ites and Iranian "volunteers" joined forces to exact revenge on our soldiers?

What about America? Richard Armitage, who did four tours in Nam and knows a bit about war, says that, in its ability to attack Western targets, al Qaeda is the B team, Hezbollah the A Team. If Bush bombs Iran, what prevents Hezbollah from launching retaliatory attacks inside the United States?

None of this is written in defense of Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran.

But none of them has attacked our country, nor has Syria, whom Bush I made an ally in the Gulf War, and to whom the most decorated soldier in Israeli history, Ehud Barak, offered 99 percent of the Golan Heights. If Nixon, Bush I and Clinton could deal with Hafez al-Assad, a tougher customer than son Bashar, what is the matter with George W. Bush?

The last superpower is impotent in this war because we have allowed Israel to dictate to whom we may and may not talk. Thus, Bush winds up cussing in frustration in St. Petersburg that somebody should tell the Syrians to stop it. Why not pick up the phone, Mr. President?

What is Kristol's moral and legal ground for a war on Iran? It is the "Iranian act of aggression" against Israel, and that Iran is on the road to nuclear weapons, and we can't have that.

But there is no evidence Iran has any tighter control over Hezbollah than we have over Israel, whose response to the capture of two soldiers had all the spontaneity of the Schlieffen Plan. And, again, Hezbollah attacked Israel, not us. And there is no solid proof Iran is in violation of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, which it has signed, but Israel refuses to sign.

If Iran's nuclear program justifies war, why cannot the neocons make that case in the constitutional way, instead of prodding Bush to launch a Pearl Harbor attack? Do they fear they have no credibility left after pushing Bush into this bloody quagmire in Iraq that has cost almost 2,600 dead and 18,000 wounded Americans?

No, Kenny boy, we are not "all Israelis." Some of us still think of ourselves as Americans, first, last, and always

And, no, Mr. Kristol, this is not "our war." It's your war.

[Risto 0]

No, This is Not 'Our War'

by Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted Jul 21, 2006

My country has been "torn to shreds," said Fouad Siniora, the prime minister of Lebanon, as the death toll among his people passed 300 civilian dead, 1,000 wounded, with half a million homeless.

Israel must pay for the "barbaric destruction," quote]

Hey mdyoung whoever started the war he will pay

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

The benefit is the approval of God.

And I thought the time for Crusades was over after the sacking of Constantinople...