In America's Best Interests ?

[almaty 19]

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

good avatar ..and welcome ric..the mature boy

Thanks! I think it is the nature boy though

sorry brother..that was shitty typing by me as usual...

[Ric Flair 0]

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

good avatar ..and welcome ric..the mature boy

Thanks! I think it is the nature boy though

sorry brother..that was shitty typing by me as usual...

No worries. I can't type very well either! That's why I keep my comments brief

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Welllllll..... sorry to break to ya, but such thoughts and ideas have been in my head (and in quite a few other Americans' heads, too) for a longggg time before this paper was published.

Not only Americans. I've met and had discussions with many British academics

who share your point of view to a T. Your list of web sites is almost the same

as their lists (although you never mentioned onestate.org -- a movement for one

secular democratic state) and I've heard the same arguments before.

That's not to say that you don't have any valid points; I may disagree with your

interpretation of events, but I can certainly see where you're coming from.

My "list of web sites" ???? Not sure what you're referring to.

I believe the only "list" I've posted on this site is one naming a number of Israeli peace organizations who all oppose the Israeli occupation, and that was in specific answer to someone who insinuated that disagreeing with the official policies of Israel was tantamount to anti-Semitism.

Now if I quote something, I will usually post a link for it, but that doesn't qualify as a list. And I have certainly posted a couple of links to histories of the conflict -- but again, not any sort of "list."

Also, I never implied that only Americans might share some or all of my views. I am sure you could find similar schools of thought in countries all over the world. As you mention, prominent members of British academia and "intelligentsia" have raised such points again and again.

But what Americans themselves think of their own government's policies is what really matters here, as American citizens are the only ones with the power to effect change in American government through the power of their votes.

I am not sure if I've seen onestate.org before... but I will take a look later.

[CanGal 1]

QUOTE(Ric Flair @ Jul 21 2006, 12:07 PM)

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

The benefit is the approval of God.

Amen to that!!!!

I don't understand how the comment would make us religioug extremists though. Everyone has to believe in something because if you don't then you'll fall for anything.

[incanada1234 0]

QUOTE(Ric Flair @ Jul 21 2006, 12:07 PM)

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

The benefit is the approval of God.

Amen to that!!!!

I don't understand how the comment would make us religioug extremists though. Everyone has to believe in something because if you don't then you'll fall for anything.

Not even sure what an "extremist" really is. Am I extremist for having 100% faith in my religion? Fine, then I'm an extremist and proud of it.

[VivaMexico 0]

QUOTE(Ric Flair @ Jul 21 2006, 12:07 PM)

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

The benefit is the approval of God.

Amen to that!!!!

I don't understand how the comment would make us religioug extremists though. Everyone has to believe in something because if you don't then you'll fall for anything.

Not even sure what an "extremist" really is. Am I extremist for having 100% faith in my religion? Fine, then I'm an extremist and proud of it.

I think that believing in God at all qualifies us as extremists in the eyes of some here. But hey, I'm more worried about what God thinks than what they think

[incanada1234 0]

I think that believing in God at all qualifies us as extremists in the eyes of some here. But hey, I'm more worried about what God thinks than what they think

Absolutely Hmmmmm, StevenandJinky or GOD........wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllll...

[CanGal 1]

QUOTE(incanada1234 @ Jul 21 2006, 03:33 PM)

QUOTE(CanGal @ Jul 21 2006, 03:23 PM)

QUOTE

QUOTE(Ric Flair @ Jul 21 2006, 12:07 PM)

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

The benefit is the approval of God.

Amen to that!!!!

I don't understand how the comment would make us religioug extremists though. Everyone has to believe in something because if you don't then you'll fall for anything.

Not even sure what an "extremist" really is. Am I extremist for having 100% faith in my religion? Fine, then I'm an extremist and proud of it.

I think that believing in God at all qualifies us as extremists in the eyes of some here. But hey, I'm more worried about what God thinks than what they think

Exactly!!

[Ric Flair 0]

Why does the U.S. give money to Israel? What benefit do we receive in return?

The benefit is the approval of God.

That is an interesting statement I guess. So, which God and why.....and how would you know that He approves? Unless God writes thank you cards for political donations I never got one.

[CanGal 1]

Now this is just my belief, no one else has to agree. Israel and its people are God's Chosen people. Jerusalem is a Holy City. That land is their land and it has descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Those people have a mandate to that land because the Bible says so. If we believe in God and we say we follow him we also need to stand for Israel. It clearly states i the Bible that anyone who apposes Israel is going to have to deal with God up front and personal at some time if they want to or not. That means individually and as nations.

so as an individual and as a nation, by backing up Israel we do have Gods approval in that sect.

Edited July 21, 2006 by CanGal

[Ric Flair 0]

Now this is just my belief, no one else has to agree. Israel and its people are God's Chosen people. Jerusalem is a Holy City. That land is their land and it has descended from David, Abraham, and Issac. Those people have a mandate to that land because the Bible says so. If we believe in God and we say we follow him we also need to stand for Israel. It clearly states i the Bible that anyone who apposes Israel is going to have to deal with God up front and personal at some time if they want to or not. That means individually and as nations.

so as an individual and as a nation, by backing up Israel we do have Gods approval in that sect.

That was interesting, thank you. I can respect what you wrote.

I still wonder about that though. How do you know that backing up Israel should not mean helping them resolve things peacefully. What if by encouraging or condoning the violence there that things actually get worse! Then, by your words you would actually be defying God, right? Because let's face it, you're not really supporting Israel, but the money supports their government. That government may not be doing it's best to serve the people and by supporting that you are supporting the destruction of Israel.

Just a counterpoint to your claim. No offense implied, rather another perspective.

[CanGal 1]

QUOTE(CanGal @ Jul 21 2006, 03:43 PM)

Now this is just my belief, no one else has to agree. Israel and its people are God's Chosen people. Jerusalem is a Holy City. That land is their land and it has descended from David, Abraham, and Issac. Those people have a mandate to that land because the Bible says so. If we believe in God and we say we follow him we also need to stand for Israel. It clearly states i the Bible that anyone who apposes Israel is going to have to deal with God up front and personal at some time if they want to or not. That means individually and as nations.

so as an individual and as a nation, by backing up Israel we do have Gods approval in that sect.

That was interesting, thank you. I can respect what you wrote.

I still wonder about that though. How do you know that backing up Israel should not mean helping them resolve things peacefully. What if by encouraging or condoning the violence there that things actually get worse! Then, by your words you would actually be defying God, right? Because let's face it, you're not really supporting Israel, but the money supports their government. That government may not be doing it's best to serve the people and by supporting that you are supporting the destruction of Israel.

Just a counterpoint to your claim. No offense implied, rather another perspective.[/quote

Thank you for being respectful, And I do understand what your saying. I'm not an expert in all of this but all I know and believe is that Israel is one nation I have to back up. Do I like war and all of this stuff that going on , no not at all. But even the bible tells us all whats gonna happen to the state of Israel , past, present, and future and to tell you the truth , it's not pretty. Do I believe that one day their may be peace. Absolutely, when the Lord comes back. Will men try and bring peace. Yes, I dont' want to get too deep into it but I just believe that one day there will be a man who rises to power and who is gonna sign a 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, everyone is going to think it's great. I don't because I believe it's a lie. The bible states that will be a lie. This man is gonna hold great power but all I can do is stay true to God and what he tells me. When people think peace is finally here, it's really not gonna be peaceful at all, not until God comes back and reclaims his place in Jerusalem.

[Ric Flair 0]

Now this is just my belief, no one else has to agree. Israel and its people are God's Chosen people. Jerusalem is a Holy City. That land is their land and it has descended from David, Abraham, and Issac. Those people have a mandate to that land because the Bible says so. If we believe in God and we say we follow him we also need to stand for Israel. It clearly states i the Bible that anyone who apposes Israel is going to have to deal with God up front and personal at some time if they want to or not. That means individually and as nations.

so as an individual and as a nation, by backing up Israel we do have Gods approval in that sect.

That was interesting, thank you. I can respect what you wrote.

I still wonder about that though. How do you know that backing up Israel should not mean helping them resolve things peacefully. What if by encouraging or condoning the violence there that things actually get worse! Then, by your words you would actually be defying God, right? Because let's face it, you're not really supporting Israel, but the money supports their government. That government may not be doing it's best to serve the people and by supporting that you are supporting the destruction of Israel.

Just a counterpoint to your claim. No offense implied, rather another perspective.[/quote

Thank you for being respectful, And I do understand what your saying. I'm not an expert in all of this but all I know and believe is that Israel is one nation I have to back up. Do I like war and all of this stuff that going on , no not at all. But even the bible tells us all whats gonna happen to the state of Israel , past, present, and future and to tell you the truth , it's not pretty. Do I believe that one day their may be peace. Absolutely, when the Lord comes back. Will men try and bring peace. Yes, I dont' want to get too deep into it but I just believe that one day there will be a man who rises to power and who is gonna sign a 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, everyone is going to think it's great. I don't because I believe it's a lie. The bible states that will be a lie. This man is gonna hold great power but all I can do is stay true to God and what he tells me. When people think peace is finally here, it's really not gonna be peaceful at all, not until God comes back and reclaims his place in Jerusalem.

Wow, that really puts you in an awkward position because if you know the peace will be a lie and would bring about the destruction of the world, then you technically could never be in favor of peace in Israel (at the hands of man anyway). This is of course knowing that according to the Bible the peace is a lie. That's very interesting.

Edited July 21, 2006 by Ric Flair

[CanGal 1]

QUOTE(CanGal @ Jul 21 2006, 03:59 PM)

Now this is just my belief, no one else has to agree. Israel and its people are God's Chosen people. Jerusalem is a Holy City. That land is their land and it has descended from David, Abraham, and Issac. Those people have a mandate to that land because the Bible says so. If we believe in God and we say we follow him we also need to stand for Israel. It clearly states i the Bible that anyone who apposes Israel is going to have to deal with God up front and personal at some time if they want to or not. That means individually and as nations.

so as an individual and as a nation, by backing up Israel we do have Gods approval in that sect.

That was interesting, thank you. I can respect what you wrote.

I still wonder about that though. How do you know that backing up Israel should not mean helping them resolve things peacefully. What if by encouraging or condoning the violence there that things actually get worse! Then, by your words you would actually be defying God, right? Because let's face it, you're not really supporting Israel, but the money supports their government. That government may not be doing it's best to serve the people and by supporting that you are supporting the destruction of Israel.

Just a counterpoint to your claim. No offense implied, rather another perspective.[/quote

Thank you for being respectful, And I do understand what your saying. I'm not an expert in all of this but all I know and believe is that Israel is one nation I have to back up. Do I like war and all of this stuff that going on , no not at all. But even the bible tells us all whats gonna happen to the state of Israel , past, present, and future and to tell you the truth , it's not pretty. Do I believe that one day their may be peace. Absolutely, when the Lord comes back. Will men try and bring peace. Yes, I dont' want to get too deep into it but I just believe that one day there will be a man who rises to power and who is gonna sign a 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, everyone is going to think it's great. I don't because I believe it's a lie. The bible states that will be a lie. This man is gonna hold great power but all I can do is stay true to God and what he tells me. When people think peace is finally here, it's really not gonna be peaceful at all, not until God comes back and reclaims his place in Jerusalem.

Wow, that really puts you in an awkward position because if you know the peace will be a lie and would bring about the destruction of the world, then you technically could never be in favor of peace in Israel (at the hands of man anyway). This is of course knowing that according to the Bible the peace is a lie. That's very interesting.

ooooh I am for peace in Israel. I just don't believe that Man is ever going to bring it no matter how much they try. There will never be actual peace in Israel until the Lord returns. That is all I was saying, now you don't have to believe that for yourself.

[Ric Flair 0]

QUOTE(CanGal @ Jul 21 2006, 03:59 PM)

Now this is just my belief, no one else has to agree. Israel and its people are God's Chosen people. Jerusalem is a Holy City. That land is their land and it has descended from David, Abraham, and Issac. Those people have a mandate to that land because the Bible says so. If we believe in God and we say we follow him we also need to stand for Israel. It clearly states i the Bible that anyone who apposes Israel is going to have to deal with God up front and personal at some time if they want to or not. That means individually and as nations.

so as an individual and as a nation, by backing up Israel we do have Gods approval in that sect.

That was interesting, thank you. I can respect what you wrote.

I still wonder about that though. How do you know that backing up Israel should not mean helping them resolve things peacefully. What if by encouraging or condoning the violence there that things actually get worse! Then, by your words you would actually be defying God, right? Because let's face it, you're not really supporting Israel, but the money supports their government. That government may not be doing it's best to serve the people and by supporting that you are supporting the destruction of Israel.

Just a counterpoint to your claim. No offense implied, rather another perspective.[/quote

Thank you for being respectful, And I do understand what your saying. I'm not an expert in all of this but all I know and believe is that Israel is one nation I have to back up. Do I like war and all of this stuff that going on , no not at all. But even the bible tells us all whats gonna happen to the state of Israel , past, present, and future and to tell you the truth , it's not pretty. Do I believe that one day their may be peace. Absolutely, when the Lord comes back. Will men try and bring peace. Yes, I dont' want to get too deep into it but I just believe that one day there will be a man who rises to power and who is gonna sign a 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, everyone is going to think it's great. I don't because I believe it's a lie. The bible states that will be a lie. This man is gonna hold great power but all I can do is stay true to God and what he tells me. When people think peace is finally here, it's really not gonna be peaceful at all, not until God comes back and reclaims his place in Jerusalem.

Wow, that really puts you in an awkward position because if you know the peace will be a lie and would bring about the destruction of the world, then you technically could never be in favor of peace in Israel (at the hands of man anyway). This is of course knowing that according to the Bible the peace is a lie. That's very interesting.

ooooh I am for peace in Israel. I just don't believe that Man is ever going to bring it no matter how much they try. There will never be actual peace in Israel until the Lord returns. That is all I was saying, now you don't have to believe that for yourself.

I apologize but this gets confusing!

If you want peace in Israel, it must come from the Lord. In order for the Lord to come there must be a false peace followed by the destruction of Israel. So, in order to support Israel to eventually have the Lord save it, you have to want Israel to be destroyed. That would actually be good news, because that would mean the Lord was coming back to save everything. On the other hand, it also means the end of the world.

I guess the important question is do you want the Lord to return? If you do, then you would want Israel to be destroyed and the end of days to come. If you don't then you are willing to put up with the violence and situation of today. That's an over simplification, but a logical consequence of this belief.