12 honor killings in the UK every year

[Ban Hammer 13,345]

Here are some verses from the Quran:

[4:15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

Hmmm.. that says keep them in the house... does that mean stabbing someone to death or throwing them off a cliff? No..... and then at the finish... open some way for them... means leave it in God's hands.

I just find it very strange that non-muslims fail to mention all the rights that women ARE given in Islam and the Qu'ran..

sounds to me like in that case above, they earn the right to be a housewife for the rest of their life

[jordanianprincess 0]

Well some people obviously doesn't understand their own holy book very well, that's all I can say.

"Prophet, rouse the faithful to arms. If there are twenty

steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred;

and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand

unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding." (Qur'an 8:65)

Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the

hereafter, fight for the cause of God; whether he dies or

triumphs, We shall richly reward him. ... The true believers

fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the

devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan ..." (Qur'an 4:74,76)

Same goes for Christianity....

[Melo 1]

Islam is a religion about peace

I'm sick of hearing this!!

In Algeria? Algerian Muslim students in the Houston admit that those who convert from Islam are killed in their country.

http://www.muslimhope.com/IslamReligionOfPeace.htm

That is a outright lie if you're talking about Algeria recently. During the days of terrorism years ago it may have happend, BUT, the terrorists killed anyone they could get their hands on, regardless of age, race, sex, or religion. There was not one single family in Algeria that didn't lose a family member or good friend.

I used to work for the Embassy of Algeria... truly they were amongst the nicest men I have ever met!!! But every person at the Embassy had lost relatives in the most ghastly manner during the struggle for independence.

I was there when the AIS won the election and were not allowed to rule... I noted the indiscriminate manner in which they killed innocent Algerian citizens.

All that this has done is cement my feelings about religion per se... and in that I include Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism... all are tarnished... all are barbaric... all foster hatred and intolerance.

[incanada1234 0]

Something tells me this topic is turning into exactly what gupt wants it to turn into.

[iceyspots 0]

Islam is a religion about peace

I'm sick of hearing this!!

In Algeria? Algerian Muslim students in the Houston admit that those who convert from Islam are killed in their country.

http://www.muslimhope.com/IslamReligionOfPeace.htm

That is a outright lie if you're talking about Algeria recently. During the days of terrorism years ago it may have happend, BUT, the terrorists killed anyone they could get their hands on, regardless of age, race, sex, or religion. There was not one single family in Algeria that didn't lose a family member or good friend.

I used to work for the Embassy of Algeria... truly they were amongst the nicest men I have ever met!!! But every person at the Embassy had lost relatives in the most ghastly manner during the struggle for independence.

I was there when the AIS won the election and were not allowed to rule... I noted the indiscriminate manner in which they killed innocent Algerian citizens.

All that this has done is cement my feelings about religion per se... and in that I include Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Judaism... all are tarnished... all are barbaric... all foster hatred and intolerance.

Yes.... Yacine told me many stories and we talked two nights in a row about it... it was really terrible.. but to say that people got killed for leaving Islam.. I don't think so.. the terrorists didn't care who they killed.. they just killed.. I'm glad to hear you had such a positive experience with Algiers.. they are still maintaining an awesome level of service..

Here are some verses from the Quran:

[4:15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

Hmmm.. that says keep them in the house... does that mean stabbing someone to death or throwing them off a cliff? No..... and then at the finish... open some way for them... means leave it in God's hands.

Icey, although I am not Muslim, I do know that the quran is written in arabic. Most arabic when translated, loses alot of the meaning. I believe this is also the case with the quran, is it not?

Thanks JP..

Although the most intelligent scholars worked their best to translate as properly as possible... there are just certain phrases that "cant" be translated to show the full effect... but they do the best that they can.. however.. to confine someone to a house is much different than let's say.. stab her to death.

[Melo 1]

I had an amazing time working for the Algerians... I will never forget that time... they are amazing people. I absolutely loved the Ambassador, the First Secretary and the Second Secretary. I hope that I can meet them again some day...

[almaty 19]

aw..another great thread...all religions have stupid backward chopf##ks...

[Veiled Princess 1]

Although the most intelligent scholars worked their best to translate as properly as possible... there are just certain phrases that "cant" be translated to show the full effect... but they do the best that they can.. however.. to confine someone to a house is much different than let's say.. stab her to death.

That's absolutely right!

[4:15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

Let's also not overlook something pretty important here.... how often do four people see you having "relations"?

Edited July 21, 2006 by Veiled Princess

[kittykatwoman 0]

It reminds of the murder of a young woman called Sohane, she was of Algerian origin and was burnt alive on wasteground near her home in a suburb of Paris. She was murdered by young men from her area for refusing to submit to the norms of the society within which she lived, by refusing to be a submissive she was labelled a ####### and murdered for it. Then they destroyed the memorial place where the families and friend had put flowers, notes and all. They insulted the victim's family, threatened them and the murderer and his accomplice yelled in the tribunal.

I have no word to describe my pain and my anger. They are a bunch of archaic freaks, thinking they can repay their crimes doing some kind of pilgrimage, a few prayers and i don't know what else and they will just stay a few years in prison because they are under age 18, so they will soon be back on the tracks!

It doesn't take a lot to screw your fellow men, dipshit + religion, a perfect combo for idioty!

Disgusting!

Edited July 21, 2006 by kittykatwoman

[iceyspots 0]

aw..another great thread...all religions have stupid backward chopf##ks...

Missed you a lot brudda d...

[incanada1234 0]

Well, whatever the translation, whatever your belief of whether or not islam is peaceful, it was always destined to be the way it is.

11And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

12And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Genesis 16: 11-12

Edited July 21, 2006 by incanada1234

[iceyspots 0]

I had an amazing time working for the Algerians... I will never forget that time... they are amazing people. I absolutely loved the Ambassador, the First Secretary and the Second Secretary. I hope that I can meet them again some day...

If you don't mind me asking, what was the years that you worked there?

It reminds of the murder of a young woman called Sohane, she was of Algerian origin and was burnt alive on wasteground near her home in a suburb of Paris. She was murdered by young men from her area for refusing to submit to the norms of the society within which she lived, by refusing to be a submissive she was labelled a ####### and murdered for it. Then they destroyed the memorial place where the families and friend had put flowers, notes and all. They insulted the victim's family, threatened them and the murderer and his accomplice yelled in the tribunal.

I have no word to describe my pain and my anger. They are a bunch of archaic freaks, thinking they can repay their crimes doing some kind of pilgrimage, a few prayers and i don't know what else and they will just stay a few years in prison because they are under age 18, so they will soon be back on the tracks!

It doesn't take a lot to screw your fellow men, dipshit + religion, a perfect combo for idioty!

Disgusting!

In Algeria, you kill someone, you go to jail.. no playing around.

[jpaula 20]

Here are some verses from the Quran:

[4:15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

Hmmm.. that says keep them in the house... does that mean stabbing someone to death or throwing them off a cliff? No..... and then at the finish... open some way for them... means leave it in God's hands.

I just find it very strange that non-muslims fail to mention all the rights that women ARE given in Islam and the Qu'ran..

If the arguement comes down to the idea that locking women, indecent or no, in their homes until they die is different in degree than stabbing them to death...fine. It is literally different, but downright, horribly wrong none-the-less.

Married to a rather liberal Muslim man, I am desperately trying to find the good in Islam and separate some truly horrid cultural practices from what is real and true. But, I think this argument has to happen first and foremost in MENA and that Muslim women have to "mention" to other Muslims what rights they are given. And family codes and judicial sytems have to enfoce these rights. Religion is used all too often to take those rights away and Muslim women are the first victims. There is only so long we can point to the difference between theory and practice.

Icey, I hope your optimism about Algeria proves true, but eight months here has me less hopeful. It has the potential to be an example but is still in a rough and tumble transition that has yet to see real resolution.

[iceyspots 0]

Here are some verses from the Quran:

[4:15] And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

Hmmm.. that says keep them in the house... does that mean stabbing someone to death or throwing them off a cliff? No..... and then at the finish... open some way for them... means leave it in God's hands.

I just find it very strange that non-muslims fail to mention all the rights that women ARE given in Islam and the Qu'ran..

If the arguement comes down to the idea that locking women, indecent or no, in their homes until they die is different in degree than stabbing them to death...fine. It is literally different, but downright, horribly wrong none-the-less.

Married to a rather liberal Muslim man, I am desperately trying to find the good in Islam and separate some truly horrid cultural practices from what is real and true. But, I think this argument has to happen first and foremost in MENA and that Muslim women have to "mention" to other Muslims what rights they are given. And family codes and judicial sytems have to enfoce these rights. Religion is used all too often to take those rights away and Muslim women are the first victims. There is only so long we can point to the difference between theory and practice.

Icey, I hope your optimism about Algeria proves true, but eight months here has me less hopeful. It has the potential to be an example but is still in a rough and tumble transition that has yet to see real resolution.

jpaula,

What region are you in?

[Melo 1]

New Delhi from September 1991 to October 1992... I have tried searching for a couple of the chaps (I believe they are now Ambassadors) as for the man who was the Ambassador back then... he was such a lovely man... with an awful temper... but an absolute darling. I used to get severe tummy aches... and I recall him phoning my mum and saying to her "Madam, Anita she be good girl but she be smoke and she be sick. You no let her be smoke in the house I no let her be smoke in the Embassy"

Everyone was petrified of him... but he and I got on like a house on fire. I won't forget that man ever. He was married to the daughter of the first President of Algeria. What an awesome man!!!