Blue Slip 11/18 HCM

[cavoi xanh1 0]

Excuse me for a few moments when I vent. SERIOUSLY #######- do they people think this is a game. My wife left around 6am for the 8am appointment but we know appointed time is meaningless. She was third in line but did not get interviewed until 10am. She is scanning the blue slip now but i was too pissed to keep finding out the details. Here are the questions (no particular order) that I can recall from our phone call:

1. where does your husband work? She responded correctly.

2. what does he do? she responded correctly.

3. What is his Boss's name? she did not know.

4. How many times did we come back. she responded 4 in 2008.

5. He went back 4 times in 2008 but none in 2009? She said he was busy with work.

6. What? So he wasn't busy with work in 2008? She didn't respond.

7. Does be own or rent? How much? She responded correctly.

8. How did you meet? She explained that her mom's brother (who married my mom's sister) introduced us. "Technically" we have a mutal uncle but only through marriage. I knew is confusing, but actually detailed this out very well with a detailed family tree for both sides of the family to clearly show that the connection is through marriage only.

9. You are related so how can you get married? She said no we're not related, she calls him "Cau" and I call him "Duong". Two very different relationships.

Anyways, Blue slips ask for:

1. Time line from when you met to present. I gave them a detailed timeline from when we met until about 4/9/09 which was when I submitted the paperwork.

2. Birth certificate for wife's parents and grandparents and for my parents.

3. My birth certificate

we are scheduled to return 12/16 to submit. I will of course pay them a nice visit

I'm not worried about the time. But there is no possible way to get my parents birth certificate or mine. We left the country when i was 6-months. we were on a boat for 6 days and spent another 3 years in a refugee camp. We don't know what to do... we don't have the time or money (nor should we need to provide) such evidence. Your talking 2-3 months of searching and thousands of dollars that may not even uncover anything. These documents were either lost in the war, never produced. C'mon her grandparents are 93 your are talking 1916! The French were still enslaving our people! World War I! Women's suffrage! Less than 15 years since man could fly!

[cavoi xanh1 0]

Ok OK I am a bit calmer- the blue slip is not that bad. Two of the three are default requirements with every blue slip.

1. submit notorized time line. We already did this, but will do it again.

2. submit list of relatives in the US. we are lready did this but will do it again.

3. Submit birth certificates for beneficary and petitioner's parents.

How any one know that is meant by "cabling" and "slugging"?

From State Department website:

When primary documents are unavailable, secondary evidence regarding Vietnamese who fled their country beginning in April 1975 may be available from the individual and his or her refugee record. If the applicant received first asylum in Taiwan, cable AIT - Taipei; if in Thailand, cable the U.S.Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand and slug for ODP; if elsewhere in east or southeast Asia, cable the U.S.Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand and slug for RMA/ODP.

Edited November 18, 2009 by cavoi xanh1

[Anh map 2,098]

Excuse me for a few moments when I vent. SERIOUSLY #######- do they people think this is a game. My wife left around 6am for the 8am appointment but we know appointed time is meaningless. She was third in line but did not get interviewed until 10am. She is scanning the blue slip now but i was too pissed to keep finding out the details. Here are the questions (no particular order) that I can recall from our phone call:

1. where does your husband work? She responded correctly.

2. what does he do? she responded correctly.

3. What is his Boss's name? she did not know.

4. How many times did we come back. she responded 4 in 2008.

5. He went back 4 times in 2008 but none in 2009? She said he was busy with work.

6. What? So he wasn't busy with work in 2008? She didn't respond.

7. Does be own or rent? How much? She responded correctly.

8. How did you meet? She explained that her mom's brother (who married my mom's sister) introduced us. "Technically" we have a mutal uncle but only through marriage. I knew is confusing, but actually detailed this out very well with a detailed family tree for both sides of the family to clearly show that the connection is through marriage only.

9. You are related so how can you get married? She said no we're not related, she calls him "Cau" and I call him "Duong". Two very different relationships.

Anyways, Blue slips ask for:

1. Time line from when you met to present. I gave them a detailed timeline from when we met until about 4/9/09 which was when I submitted the paperwork.

2. Birth certificate for wife's parents and grandparents and for my parents.

3. My birth certificate

we are scheduled to return 12/16 to submit. I will of course pay them a nice visit

I'm not worried about the time. But there is no possible way to get my parents birth certificate or mine. We left the country when i was 6-months. we were on a boat for 6 days and spent another 3 years in a refugee camp. We don't know what to do... we don't have the time or money (nor should we need to provide) such evidence. Your talking 2-3 months of searching and thousands of dollars that may not even uncover anything. These documents were either lost in the war, never produced. C'mon her grandparents are 93 your are talking 1916! The French were still enslaving our people! World War I! Women's suffrage! Less than 15 years since man could fly!

Sorry to hear about the blue slip. Definitely a good thing to vent and then get back to work.

It's your obligation to prove that the documents cannot be obtained and then submit suitable substitute evidence. Here is what the HCMC FAQ consulate website says:

I am unable to submit my original birth certificate. What should I do?

If you are not able to obtain a birth certificate because records have been destroyed or the government will not issue one, you must obtain a statement to that effect from the civil registrar’s office and submit secondary evidence of birth. Secondary evidence of birth can be old family household registrations, school records, or baptismal certificates.

[Anh map 2,098]

Cabling and slugging are terms for how the embassies and other government offices communicate with each other.

You wouldn't be sending a cable, you would be inquiring about a refugee file at whatever AIT-Taipei is.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Anh map

[cavoi xanh1 0]

Sorry to hear about the blue slip. Definitely a good thing to vent and then get back to work.

It's your obligation to prove that the documents cannot be obtained and then submit suitable substitute evidence. Here is what the HCMC FAQ consulate website says:

I am unable to submit my original birth certificate. What should I do?

If you are not able to obtain a birth certificate because records have been destroyed or the government will not issue one, you must obtain a statement to that effect from the civil registrar’s office and submit secondary evidence of birth. Secondary evidence of birth can be old family household registrations, school records, or baptismal certificates.

Always dependable- Thanks A Map. I just talked to my Dad and he thinks his birth cert might be with the refugee camp papers but doubts my mom's are available. I'm going to have to have my aunt and grandfather sign an affifavit attesting to my mom's birth. If i get notorized locally, do i need to get the local court nortary, and state seal? This is very hard for me since we live in separate states and i only have about 1 week or less before i leave for VN....

[lindal24 1]

If your documents were lost or missing you can go request it from the local authority. You'll have to have someone attest and pay about 100,000 but they turn it around pretty quickly.

My mom never filed my sister's birth certificate and she had to go back and do it...

[Anh map 2,098]

From what the FAQ says you may have to get something from the local gov't office in VN where they were born saying that the birth cert isn't available. Then get something on the secondary list. You know that story, go with some pictures of Uncle Ho and start spreading it around.

The affidavit from your grandfather and aunt is worth having and submitting. Any notary is acceptable.

The CO is wanting to see that you two aren't close blood relatives. That's not uncommon for Viet couples with family in both countries. That's one hurdle I didn't have to address, just an uncooperative ex-wife.

I'd email the consualte to get some guidance about the VN birth certificates. This has to be something they deal with a lot. Also, is there any family in the town/area where your parents and grandparents lived? If so, could they go to the gov't office to find out about the birth records?

Also, update the timeline to bring it to present day.

Don't let it drag you or your wife down. You've got the blue slip "list." Go get as much proof that you can.

[fred n Dao Honey 0]

I know it’s not on your blue slip list and you will probably include it in your timeline. Knowing it is a question of concern I think you should punctuate your trip to VN by submitting current Airline Ticket Stubs.

[cavoi xanh1 0]

Again thank you everyone for the advice. I have a couple more questions:

1. They have office hours mon-friday for notary services and etc. I would use the need to get something to notorized and get inside, but what is the point? How to get to talk to a CO about our case?

2. The last item on the letter reads:

R2: YOUR APPOINTMENT DATE FOR RESUBMISSION OF REQUESTED DOCUMENTS: is 16/12/09 between 13:00-14:00 at Window B.... and etc. It also states that the documents can be submitted and time prior and will be reviewed later.

As I understand, there will be no further meeting with the Consulate Officer? How will I know the result from the submission? This time is just horrible. It gives us no time to prepare tickets and travel plans.

I will be delivering this information in person, how do I make and impression and make sure the CO knows I was there. I don't want to play this game of submitting papers just to have them hold it. I demand due process !

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

They asked for the timeline and list of relatives, both of which you'd already submitted. This sounds like SOP on the consulate in HCM. They also asked for birth certificates for both sets of parents, which they probably realize are going to be difficult to get. It also sounds like they were clear that they aren't going to make a decision until the specified date, even if the requested evidence is submitted early.

This sounds like one of those cases where they send the beneficiary and petitioner on a paper chase in order to buy them time to do some investigating. In the highly unlikely event that the evidence ends up showing that you are first cousins, that would probably be sufficient grounds for denial. First cousins can't marry in any part of the US that I'm aware of (I could be wrong). Otherwise, it sounds like they suspect the relationship was arranged by family members in order bring more of the family to the US. Mind you, that's not illegal and does not constitute visa fraud. If they denied everyone simply because they actually wanted to immigrate to the US, then they'd have to deny 99% of all applicants. However, they can't issue a visa if they believe that the relationship exists solely for the purpose of immigration.

This is my own opinion, so take it for what it's worth... I would look over your timeline and see if it's clear that the only involvement any family members had in the development of the relationship was that a family member made the initial introduction. After that, they got out of the way and let the relationship develop on it's own. Any other involvement might increase their suspicions, like family members making travel arrangements, or paying for tickets or hotels, etc. It should be clear that all decisions about the relationship were made solely by you and your wife.

Phuong also has a lot of family in the US, and we were also introduced by a family member, so I suspect this will also be an issue in our case. The only difference is I'm not Viet Kieu, so there was no relationship between our families before we met.

[Anh map 2,098]

Remember, a notary needs the person signing present in front of them. You can't bring in docs from other people to be notarized.

The American hour is 4p - 5p on Tuesday and Wednesday. http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/contact/consular.html

[Dau Que 6]

OP, if I were you, I would seek consultation with an experienced immigration lawyer, before things get outta hands. Your case warrants such need. Your relationship with your wife is too close. They (the CO) WILL deny your case since they DO have sufficient (and they don't have to prove this and remember you can't sue them in court either) evidence to prove you and your wife is family-related marriage.

My 3.14159©

[BinhJerome 14]

I know it's not on your blue slip list and you will probably include it in your timeline. Knowing it is a question of concern I think you should punctuate your trip to VN by submitting current Airline Ticket Stubs.

I would also submit more evidence of bonafied relationship, chat logs, emails ect ect, also submit more photos, recent phone bills, like Fred said plane ticket stubs, the entire 9 yards, if you felt it was important to take to the interview, have her give everything they did not look at or keep. This way they can not say denial for no photos, no proof of ongoing relationship, yada yada yada, this is where we stumbled, we did not want to get longer ap, but like I said, if you took it to the interview and still have it because the CO did not keep it, give it to them, and make sure they take it, even if they say they do not need it, give it to them. Good luck

Jerome and Binh

[cavoi xanh1 0]

My friends, thanks to this forum, I have been meticulous in putting our petition together. All reciepts, joint taxes, photos, tickets tubs, cards, letters, emails, chat logs, insurance, life insurance, etc have been assemembled and was acutally submitted with the initial I-130.

I amended our timeline to fall in line with that standard questions they asked and to answer the questions more directly. We found my fathers' birth cert, but there is not way we are able to track down my mothers. We don't have the resources to return to the villages. My mom will sign a notorized letter explaining this and I will attach two affivadits from my grandfather stating how many children he had, with whom, and a letter from my aunt as well. These will also attest to the time and place of my mother's birth.

We included all the pictures and evidence with the intial application and also brought it along but I don't think they looked at any of it?

In any case, I will make sure the evdience package is accepted along with our document request. I have a very strong suspiciation that the word Cau and Duong were not properly translated during the interview to the CO? It is frustating because I knew this was going to be an issue. The timeline clearly shows how we do not share anway common ancestors. It is only through the marriage of my mom's half-sister and my wife's mother's brother that our families are remotely connected at all. Its odd we were acutally worried that the Vietnamese officials would raise flags about the need for birth certs for my parents when we did our marriage registration, but it went without a hitch.

I am not going to see an attorney, because there is nothing here that an attorney could do to make the our case any clearer. I welcome the investigation because there is nothing for them to uncover. It just is unfortunate because I wanted my wife here to help me move into our new place before the new year. :-(

[toddandhien 2]

Cabling and slugging are terms for how the embassies and other government offices communicate with each other.

You wouldn't be sending a cable, you would be inquiring about a refugee file at whatever AIT-Taipei is.

AIT is the American Institute in Taiwan. We do not have an embassy in Taiwan; rather we have a quasi-governmental organization that does everything that an embassy does, including consular services.