Should Americans brace themselves for European-style unemployment?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Desktop/laptop level 1 support and data center project managers are all in Mexico.

I don't know why but that is just funny.

I guess NAFTA is working.

The vendor we use (shall remain nameless) is very big on Mexico. My personal experiences with staff in Mexico has been mixed. Some are very good and some are not. Same can be said for Indian and Krakow staff.

[alienlovechild 75]

"Meanwhile, the economy has shed about 8 million private-sector jobs in the last two years, even as the U.S. needs to add about 125,000 jobs a month just to absorb the new folks entering the workforce. Put the two together, and the economy would need to create about 15 million jobs over the next five years just to get back to where we started at the inception of the Great Recession, Mauldin calculates.

But wait -- it gets worse. What Maudlin is saying is that the U.S. needs to add 250,000 jobs a month every month for five years. That's an unprecedented level of job creation. Over the last decade we've experienced just one year when the economy gained more than 250,000 jobs a month every month, Mauldin says, and that was 1999: the height of the tech bubble. (As a depressing aside, Mauldin notes that the private sector has shed 300,000 jobs since 1999. A Lost Decade, indeed.)

The middling scenario, which sort of splits the difference, assumes no double-dip recession, baby boomers retiring on time and job creation following along the same lines as it did in the last recovery. That still puts unemployment above 11% for three years, from mid-2010 to mid-2013. It wouldn't drop below 10% until 2015 and would still stand at 8% in 2020.

"Pessimistic? Mainstream and usually very optimistic Mark Zandi of Moody's Economy.com predicted [last] week that unemployment would rise to 11% by the middle of next year, right in line with this scenario," Mauldin says."

You know people were becoming more pessimistic when they have a name for it- The Great Recession. I don't think this country can accept years of high unemployment without seeing some big shifts in the political balance. I have hard time seeing over 11% unemployment even with Obama running things. The only it will happen is if there's a general feeling to accept a lower standard of living and believe there's no alternatives for the next few years. That's depressing.

Edited November 18, 2009 by alienlovechild

[Heracles 417]

The vendor we use (shall remain nameless) is very big on Mexico. My personal experiences with staff in Mexico has been mixed. Some are very good and some are not. Same can be said for Indian and Krakow staff.

They cannot be worse than the Indian Centers. I'd rather smoke rabbit poo cigarettes than have to deal with those (by the book) script following places.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I know the scripts are frustrating, but to ensure that all cases that get escalated to level 2 have undergone the same set of diagnostic steps prior to escalation, the scripts are necessary.

[Heracles 417]

I know the scripts are frustrating, but to ensure that all cases that get escalated to level 2 have undergone the same set of diagnostic steps prior to escalation, the scripts are necessary.

Repeating mundane steps on each and every call gets frustrating. It's the reason I gave up on Vonage years ago. I wasted hours with these idiots.

If a company has call centers abroad, I refuse to use them.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I know the scripts are frustrating, but to ensure that all cases that get escalated to level 2 have undergone the same set of diagnostic steps prior to escalation, the scripts are necessary.

Repeating mundane steps on each and every call gets frustrating. It's the reason I gave up on Vonage years ago. I wasted hours with these idiots.

If a company has call centers abroad, I refuse to use them.

Any level 1 call center that operates with any level of rigor or discipline is going to have scripts. A good level 1 tech won't make it obvious he's using a script though, even when he is. All cases have to have the same level of documentation prior to escalation.

[Heracles 417]

Any level 1 call center that operates with any level of rigor or discipline is going to have scripts. A good level 1 tech won't make it obvious he's using a script though, even when he is. All cases have to have the same level of documentation prior to escalation.

Indian call centers are by far the worst.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Any level 1 call center that operates with any level of rigor or discipline is going to have scripts. A good level 1 tech won't make it obvious he's using a script though, even when he is. All cases have to have the same level of documentation prior to escalation.

Indian call centers are by far the worst.

Yes, but not because of scripts. The help desk presence has expanded well beyond the Indian labor markets ability to provide adequate-quality staff.

[alienlovechild 75]

Yes, but not because of scripts. The help desk presence has expanded well beyond the Indian labor markets ability to provide adequate-quality staff.

I get a kick out of calling the Dell center in India. The phony names for the workers make me grin. I always tell them I've been to India so they don't have to pretend they're somewhere in the U.S. Seems they used to be Hyderbad but now many are in Mumbai? Now they have call centers in the Philippines so I hand the phone to the wife. Small world.

[aidan80 9]

if there's a general feeling to accept a lower standard of living and believe there's no alternatives for the next few years. That's depressing.

That is funny!. lower standard of living.. Maybe my mind is still stuck somewhere back home 10 - 20 years ago where unemployment at one point was in double digits and I knew more people on the dole than had jobs. Where cars where luxury items a lot didn't own and holidays for the most part didn't really happen. Fast forward to present and I'm an adult in America where some that I talk to moan about how they are broke and how the recession (not all those credit cards they over spent on) has almost made them bankrupt, how they lost their house..etc Two days later same people moan about how their car is 3 years old and they "need" a new SUV with all the options!

Can someone here help me understand that? Is that a widespread thing over here where people have lost the ability to judge between what they actually need vs want then balance with what they can actually afford? I understand, at least I think I understand the difference between need and want.. I'd like a nice new 42" LCD TV but I don't actually need it. I wanted a new car as well but I didn't need it till the one I had actually died then that want became a need very fast! Maybe I've just turned into a tight #######, I'll have to listen as I walk see if I can hear myself squeak.

[Heracles 417]

That is funny!. lower standard of living.. Maybe my mind is still stuck somewhere back home 10 - 20 years ago where unemployment at one point was in double digits and I knew more people on the dole than had jobs. Where cars where luxury items a lot didn't own and holidays for the most part didn't really happen. Fast forward to present and I'm an adult in America where some that I talk to moan about how they are broke and how the recession (not all those credit cards they over spent on) has almost made them bankrupt, how they lost their house..etc Two days later same people moan about how their car is 3 years old and they "need" a new SUV with all the options!

Can someone here help me understand that? Is that a widespread thing over here where people have lost the ability to judge between what they actually need vs want then balance with what they can actually afford? I understand, at least I think I understand the difference between need and want.. I'd like a nice new 42" LCD TV but I don't actually need it. I wanted a new car as well but I didn't need it till the one I had actually died then that want became a need very fast! Maybe I've just turned into a tight #######, I'll have to listen as I walk see if I can hear myself squeak.

It's because they have access to easy credit. People are also too ------ to realize it is funded by their adversary China. AKA the new Russia; just with $1,400,000,000,000 dollars worth of US currency. Many here has sat and watched American jobs be exported all in the name of profits and Capitalism. While others continue to purchase products produced overseas, all in the name of saving a buck. Many also don't seem to grasp that the current to International expeditions by the US Military have been financed by the People's Republic Of China.

There are a hell of a lot of people who could no tell me what an APR is, but know the shoe size of every player of their favorite sports team.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Booyah!

[aidan80 9]

That is funny!. lower standard of living.. Maybe my mind is still stuck somewhere back home 10 - 20 years ago where unemployment at one point was in double digits and I knew more people on the dole than had jobs. Where cars where luxury items a lot didn't own and holidays for the most part didn't really happen. Fast forward to present and I'm an adult in America where some that I talk to moan about how they are broke and how the recession (not all those credit cards they over spent on) has almost made them bankrupt, how they lost their house..etc Two days later same people moan about how their car is 3 years old and they "need" a new SUV with all the options!

Can someone here help me understand that? Is that a widespread thing over here where people have lost the ability to judge between what they actually need vs want then balance with what they can actually afford? I understand, at least I think I understand the difference between need and want.. I'd like a nice new 42" LCD TV but I don't actually need it. I wanted a new car as well but I didn't need it till the one I had actually died then that want became a need very fast! Maybe I've just turned into a tight #######, I'll have to listen as I walk see if I can hear myself squeak.

It's because they have access to easy credit. People are also too ------ to realize it is funded by their adversary China. AKA the new Russia; just with $1,400,000,000,000 dollars worth of US currency. Many here has sat and watched American jobs be exported all in the name of profits and Capitalism. While others continue to purchase products produced overseas, all in the name of saving a buck. Many also don't seem to grasp that the current to International expeditions by the US Military have been financed by the People's Republic Of China.

There are a hell of a lot of people who could no tell me what an APR is, but know the shoe size of every player of their favorite sports team.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. It's like some are still stuck in the "if I can make the minimum monthly payment it's ok" way of thinking instead of how much will this actually cost me in total? I'm still thinking total cost everything all in what does this cost if I paid with my cash now for this. That's what I've been doing almost all the time since I started working here I saved then bought what I needed with my own cash. It is worrying to think that America is basically running on money form another country and a rival country too.

[Heracles 417]

I think you hit the nail on the head there. It's like some are still stuck in the "if I can make the minimum monthly payment it's ok" way of thinking instead of how much will this actually cost me in total? I'm still thinking total cost everything all in what does this cost if I paid with my cash now for this. That's what I've been doing almost all the time since I started working here I saved then bought what I needed with my own cash. It is worrying to think that America is basically running on money form another country and a rival country too.

The chickens have come home to roost. Anyone who thinks this is going to be a quick recovery is grossly mistaken. The golden egg laying heydays are over for the US. Basically the country has run out of credit.

What I hear about constantly is the 'entrepreneurial spirit'. Sure there might be the odd next gen facebook or google but these individuals cannot propel an entire country.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Booyah!

[AlHayatZween 2]

I'll answer the question for my employer. We've outsourced most of our IT infrastructure to a domestic vendor, who in turn has offshored 2 out of every 3 positions. Currently, our data center support, desktop/laptop support help desk, network support, AIX/Linux support, Lotus Notes support, server resources monitoring staff are all entirely offshore. By outsourcing these functions to the domestic vendor, my employer has achieved a real (inflation-adjusted) IT budget cut of about 30% over 5 years. If we were to reverse the outsourcing decision and insource it all back in, in addition to the cost of actually moving all our hardware back (which won't be much soon once we're all virtualized) our budget will skyrocket as cost of hiring and retaining employees in the northeast isn't exactly low. What will be the effect? Assuming the business decides to simply swallow the cost (they won't but let's go ahead and pretend) that's a net reduction in operating income for the corporation as a whole. We'll probably have to raise premiums to compensate which will make us uncompetitive with other companies that are even more reliant on offshore staff than we are.

Yes, i get it on some level...

(i might sound dramatic) This might be the end for us...

So, there is no alternative? How to compete, our workforce will always be more expensive to employ because the cost of living here is quite more expensive than the places we are shipping jobs, too.

[AlHayatZween 2]

We can! American Corporations need to change their focus from bottom dollar to being forced to factor what is best for the nation too. It should not be acceptable for a corporation to make billions for their shareholders, all while selling out their employees and the country short.

Furthermore, there needs to be a huge education campaign illustrating the importance of paying a bit more and buying America. Personally, whenever I pick up a product for the first time I always check to see where it is made.

i feel this way, too! Bring the jobs back for the greater good of the nation! But then, i am a little bit of an idealist softee

The only it will happen is if there's a general feeling to accept a lower standard of living and believe there's no alternatives for the next few years. That's depressing.

It is depressing, and i think it's already happening...