Female Soldier Refuses Deployment to Care for Baby

[SMR 368]

Actually, I'm not suggesting that she planned this whole thing. My point is that she didn't plan. And that's her fault.

she had the army required family plan. i've never heard of there being a requirement for a plan b, plan c, and so on.

your point is void.

She had a plan that she should have known wouldn't work. When you know plan A won't work, not having a plan B IS irresponsible.

[newlyweds 0]

Here's the link:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_...EMPLATE=DEFAULT

Thoughts?

why did she join the MILITARY? Didn't she think she would be deployed. she needs to go and do her time as the soldier she signed up to be and not be a coward. nobody twisted her arm to join. she didn't have to join the military. What did she think she was going to do be on vacation.

How can you call her a coward? She joined and then had her child, then separated from the father. The article clearly states that she was willing to deploy, she HAD a careplan for her son in place (I admit, not thought through very carefully), it just didn't work out.

She did what you'd think every mom would do- put her child first no matter the consequences.

Being a soldier does not turn you into a machine. You still worry about your child and his wellbeing and I can totally see how fostercare was no option for her.

My husband just returned from a deployment and I know he was okay because he knew our son was in good hands with me, I definitely know he would have done anything to stay home if he had doubts about the wellbeing of his son while he was gone.

And yes, there are so many guys who come up with all kinds of ridiculous reasons not to deploy and nobody calls those cowards....

sometimes, the society because they are tax-payers, think they have a big hold or can control what people in the military should do; like for example her, just because she couldn't deploy (couldn't not because she ddnt want to) with her current situation doesn't mean she should be attacked with reasons she was paid with "everybody's tax, yours or mine" she should do her job and yes, be like a machine and go leave her child.

It is a job yes, but even in your job you get sick days, and for most of us we want to be excused for absences at work so we can't just attack her not being able to deploy; She has so many reasons that they are willingly trying to find out hence the investigation.. The final say would be when the investigation ends and we get answers.

Just think of it this way, it wouldn't be fair to make someone do something they are not fully prepared for, and in her case, part of the preparation was making sure someone is there to care for her child whilst she serves the country.

My husband too had been deployed, he said he never wants to do that ever again; Him not wanting to deploy doesn't mean that he's a coward, he doesn't want to be blown up and have pieces of his helmet stuck in his brain like what happened to someone in his unit; Luckily, he doesn't need to be deployed in his unit now

so there's a difference and there are reasons

So, your husband decided he didn't want to deploy and chose a unit that doesn't require it. That's called planning and decision making. Good for him.

Whether or not it's fair to make someone do something they aren't prepared to do is debatable. I doubt anyone can really consider themselves fully prepared to deploy to a war-zone unless they are crazy. But it isn't fair to commit to do something and then not do it. When you commit to do something, preparation is your responsibility.

yeah, it came with the plan and it was a good call for him but they still do have some people deployed. I think all deployments are for afghanistan, and if he would be called in for it, there's nothing he can do but for now, we are just thankful to God he won't be doing that

[newlyweds 0]

Actually, I'm not suggesting that she planned this whole thing. My point is that she didn't plan. And that's her fault.

she had the army required family plan. i've never heard of there being a requirement for a plan b, plan c, and so on.

your point is void.

She had a plan that she should have known wouldn't work. When you know plan A won't work, not having a plan B IS irresponsible.

in her case, she didn't but do you always always have a plan B or C when you were so sure of plan A? in her case, it seemed like she didn't have time to find someone to be her plan B..

What If she did have a plan B, and it ddn't work either, would you try and look for a plan C?

[Ban Hammer 13,429]

Actually, I'm not suggesting that she planned this whole thing. My point is that she didn't plan. And that's her fault.

she had the army required family plan. i've never heard of there being a requirement for a plan b, plan c, and so on.

your point is void.

She had a plan that she should have known wouldn't work. When you know plan A won't work, not having a plan B IS irresponsible.

quite obviously the plan was valid as the soldier's mother was privy to it. however, the child's grandmother was overcome by the demands by such a young child. furthermore, the family plan is "blessed" by the military as being valid. it was not made in a vacuum without the knowledge of the military nor the child's grandmother.

additionally, the military requires single parents and dual military (both spouses) to have a family plan. the soldier in question met that requirement. through no fault of her own, it didn't work. the command, either way one wants to slice it, has egg on their face as the command has a hand in the approving process of family plans and from the stupid idea from the commander on what the service member should do afterward.

Edited November 17, 2009 by charles!

[nowhereman 1]

defer her deployment for several months - and relieve her commander for idiotic decisions.

I agree the commander (probably the Company Commander or Battalion Commander) threw gas on the fire by having her arrested. If I was the commander I would have done two things: consult a JAG & get the commander's intent from higher.

Military order relies on the basis that disobeying a direct order has strict consequences. Take that away and the army is a mob. She was told to get on the plane and didn't. There have to be consequences.

Nowhereman, demonstrating that he doesn't actually have the ability to make decisions himself, would consult people. I'm not knocking asking for help when you don't know the answer, but what you said you would do isn't actually doing anything. You would just ask a JAG what he thinks and ask your CO what you should do. That isn't an action, that's consulting.

Good leaders don't make decisions in a vacuum unless the situation dictates it (e.g. a battlefield decision that has to be made on the spot). This scenario isn't on the battlefield & I'm pretty sure the chain of command knew about the situation beforehand, so consulting a JAG and your higher HQ is prudent & not a sign of weakness or indecision as you are implying.

You don't know me or my experiences so please do not make baseless assumptions on my ability to make decisions by myself. Stick to the topic at hand.

My point is that asking someone is not an action and you don't know if the CO in question did ask the people you suggested. He took an action and that is what the news story is about. Maybe he asked higher HQ and a JAG and they told him to arrest her. Since you would have to ask them anyways, you don't know what they would say. You haven't offered an alternate course of action, just a way to arrive at a course of action.

Given the facts available I would have initiated Article 15 (Nonjudicial Punishment) proceedings against the soldier, again consulting JAG to make sure my ducks are in a row. A commander must weigh both the nature of the offense & any mitigating circumstances when considering an Article 15 & that is why I would go this route vs arresting her. The offense (missing movement) is pretty serious, but the circumstances mitigate a more serious charge IMO. I'm sympathetic to the soldier's situation but at the same time I understand the need to maintain good order & discipline. An Article 15 (with perhaps a hardship discharge later on) seems to be a reasonable course of action.

Of course if I knew about the situation beforehand I would have tried to avoid getting to this point, but given the facts at hand we don't know what happened prior to the soldier's arrest.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Per my original post, she should be thrown out of the army. I understand that things don't always work out the way you want them to but when you make commitments and then make choices that put you in a situation that make those commitments mutually exclusive, it's your fault.

Per the AP article, the Army would appear to disagree with you:

Kevin Larson, a spokesman for Hunter Army Airfield, said he didn't know what Hutchinson was told by her commanders, but he said the Army would not deploy a single parent who had nobody to care for his or her child.

"I don't know what transpired and the investigation will get to the bottom of it," Larson said. "If she would have come to the deployment terminal with her child, there's no question she would not have been deployed."

What's your point? I realize the army has to deal with reality. And reality means that someone has to take care of the kid. Of course if she shows up with her kid, they can't send her because there is no one to take her kid. The fact that she created a situation where basic decency means that she can't be forced to fulfill her obligations doesn't mean that she isn't at fault for creating that situation.

My point is that your take on the situation is quite extreme - more extreme than it should be. As I said earlier, life happens and that has got to be taken into consideration. The Army does that obviously. Only you can't find it in you to understand that this woman finds herself ina situation that she's not happy being in. You make it sound as if she planned this whole thing to avoid deployment and there's nothing in this story to suggest that is the case.

But since you're superior and without any fault, keep throwing them stones.

Actually, I'm not suggesting that she planned this whole thing. My point is that she didn't plan. And that's her fault.

Maybe she didn't plan to get pregnant but chose life once she did.

Would that be her fault, too, Mr. I-Can-Do-No-Wrong?

[LaL 418]

Per my original post, she should be thrown out of the army. I understand that things don't always work out the way you want them to but when you make commitments and then make choices that put you in a situation that make those commitments mutually exclusive, it's your fault.

Per the AP article, the Army would appear to disagree with you:

Kevin Larson, a spokesman for Hunter Army Airfield, said he didn't know what Hutchinson was told by her commanders, but he said the Army would not deploy a single parent who had nobody to care for his or her child.

"I don't know what transpired and the investigation will get to the bottom of it," Larson said. "If she would have come to the deployment terminal with her child, there's no question she would not have been deployed."

What's your point? I realize the army has to deal with reality. And reality means that someone has to take care of the kid. Of course if she shows up with her kid, they can't send her because there is no one to take her kid. The fact that she created a situation where basic decency means that she can't be forced to fulfill her obligations doesn't mean that she isn't at fault for creating that situation.

My point is that your take on the situation is quite extreme - more extreme than it should be. As I said earlier, life happens and that has got to be taken into consideration. The Army does that obviously. Only you can't find it in you to understand that this woman finds herself ina situation that she's not happy being in. You make it sound as if she planned this whole thing to avoid deployment and there's nothing in this story to suggest that is the case.

But since you're superior and without any fault, keep throwing them stones.

Actually, I'm not suggesting that she planned this whole thing. My point is that she didn't plan. And that's her fault.

Maybe she didn't plan to get pregnant but chose life once she did.

Would that be her fault, too, Mr. I-Can-Do-No-Wrong?

Because once they are born they better not ask for/receive any help!

[DEDixon 39]

defer her deployment for several months - and relieve her commander for idiotic decisions.

yeah, and if she can't deploy in a few months, she should be discharged. she can skate as a civilian, but not while others are still deploying.

[DEDixon 39]

and yes, i do think women shouldn't really be deployed because of a lot reasons. It's not because women are weaker, it's just one thing that people must be realistic about. In war, there is no room for special arrangements, or excuses, you cannot tell the enemy, hey can you be more considerate of me because medically I do not have the strength that every man was blessed with no matter all the resistance excercise i get, nor can she tell them to excuse her because she has PMS, or have her period, or have abdominal cramps..

you are contradicting yourself here. you say it's just one component, yet rattle off a bunch of so called physical limitations.

well obviously I just think it's discriminatory for us women to be called weaker, yes, there are just physical limitations but not weaker.. and that's the opinion i am entitled to

"yes there are physical limitations" .... then "but not weaker" LOL!!!!!

[SMR 368]

I realize I'm hardline about the situation. But if you read my posts, all I want is for her to be thrown out of the army. I admit that suggesting she should pay back her salary is ridiculous and punitive. I said that more to illustrate the point that the nation invested resources in her but she refuses to deliver on her commitments. It was ridiculous.

I do think the situation is her fault and I don't think that's unreasonable. But throwing her out of the army is really best for everyone concerned. Like I said, she's in the wrong line of work.

I also find the assumptions about my personal life rather amusing. I could deny skeletons, but as the saying goes, that's what I'd say if there were skeletons.

Edited November 17, 2009 by SMR

[Krikit 1,164]

Post with name-calling, and posts quoting that post, have been removed. Edited versions have been returned below. Please do not resort to this type of behaviour as it is a TOS violation. Thank you.

Heard on the news about a scandal going on in Milwaukee where privately owned daycare centers that are state supported are lying about the number of kids they are taking care of stealing millions of dollars from the state!

First question I had is why in the hell is the state using my tax dollars to support these places, in talking to my family and wife's co-workers, these places charge more per hour to watch a kid than what the mother can make. But they do get quite a tax break on their income taxes.

The people they are helping aren't even involved with the military, just poor slobs trying to make ends meet. Bottom line is we are getting creamed with more taxes than what these people can earn, but gather it's better to keep these people working than to stay home and watch their kids. And kids they have, most without fathers that can be identified for support.

So why isn't the military providingday (and night) care for this woman?

More I hear on the news, the more this country is really fvcked up.

Heard on the news about a scandal going on in Milwaukee where privately owned daycare centers that are state supported are lying about the number of kids they are taking care of stealing millions of dollars from the state!

First question I had is why in the hell is the state using my tax dollars to support these places, in talking to my family and wife's co-workers, these places charge more per hour to watch a kid than what the mother can make. But they do get quite a tax break on their income taxes.

The people they are helping aren't even involved with the military, just poor slobs trying to make ends meet. Bottom line is we are getting creamed with more taxes than what these people can earn, but gather it's better to keep these people working than to stay home and watch their kids. And kids they have, most without fathers that can be identified for support.

So why isn't the military providingday (and night) care for this woman?

More I hear on the news, the more this country is really fvcked up.

The people with the most extreme/ hard-line views are usually the same people with the most skeletons in their closet. Now I don't know SMR so I can't say if he fits this mold, but we all make mistakes & at times life gets out of control. We're talking about a 21 year old single mom, so she has a lot on her plate & not a whole lot of experience to draw from.

Heard on the news about a scandal going on in Milwaukee where privately owned daycare centers that are state supported are lying about the number of kids they are taking care of stealing millions of dollars from the state!

First question I had is why in the hell is the state using my tax dollars to support these places, in talking to my family and wife's co-workers, these places charge more per hour to watch a kid than what the mother can make. But they do get quite a tax break on their income taxes.

The people they are helping aren't even involved with the military, just poor slobs trying to make ends meet. Bottom line is we are getting creamed with more taxes than what these people can earn, but gather it's better to keep these people working than to stay home and watch their kids. And kids they have, most without fathers that can be identified for support.

So why isn't the military providingday (and night) care for this woman?

More I hear on the news, the more this country is really fvcked up.

The people with the most extreme/ hard-line views are usually the same people with the most skeletons in their closet. Now I don't know SMR so I can't say if he fits this mold, but we all make mistakes & at times life gets out of control. We're talking about a 21 year old single mom, so she has a lot on her plate & not a whole lot of experience to draw from.

some people just can't stand watching other people not having a solution ASAp for every single thing you can think of..

hey, who knows, maybe this guy never had anything backfired on him EVER.. you know when you reach a point in life, where you freak out because you're SOL and you don't have enough resources or experience to solve it..

I'd assume life WOULD be easier if we knew how to solve problems right away, but in her part, she still has a lot to learn and we can't hold her accountable for that.

It's just that simple, her plan didn't work! they arrested her, they have their reasons why and she had her reasons too.

it's like, give her a break! If they put me in a situation to have my kid put into foster care so i can just serve my country, heck i'd choose my child! blood is always thicker than water, so as a mother it made her freak out and avoid the deployment schedule.. She seemed afraid that's all ( that her kid would be taken cared for by strangers, not the deployment i would think)

[NickD 203]

I realize I'm hardline about the situation. But if you read my posts, all I want is for her to be thrown out of the army. I admit that suggesting she should pay back her salary is ridiculous and punitive. I said that more to illustrate the point that the nation invested resources in her but she refuses to deliver on her commitments. It was ridiculous.

I do think the situation is her fault and I don't think that's unreasonable. But throwing her out of the army is really best for everyone concerned. Like I said, she's in the wrong line of work.

For a country that is suppose to have equal rights and opportunity, really failing in that respect. Can only think of all the rich kids that avoided the draft because their old man had money and power, that certainly isn't equal opportunity. Or the government contractors that cleaned up during times of these undeclared wars, conflicts, or whatever the hell they want to call them that to date, have not done this nation a damn bit of good. Except made some guys super rich.

Seen how the recruiter lied to my step daughter to meet his quota with all kinds of great promises, she this gal got lied to just as well in an attempt living in a very prejudiced country and taking advantage of the poor trying to make a better life for themselves. Granted, she didn't have to join, those times have changed when we were called with no choice in the matter. Either go, or go to jail, or go to Canada was the way it was. Except today, can't go to Canada, that loop hole was closed.

Also we are talking about a young black woman if anyone bothered to read the link:

Have to say, it was to one's advantage to be white during the VN era, those black guys were the first to hit the front lines. What does Obama have to say about all this?

[newlyweds 0]

I realize I'm hardline about the situation. But if you read my posts, all I want is for her to be thrown out of the army. I admit that suggesting she should pay back her salary is ridiculous and punitive. I said that more to illustrate the point that the nation invested resources in her but she refuses to deliver on her commitments. It was ridiculous.

I do think the situation is her fault and I don't think that's unreasonable. But throwing her out of the army is really best for everyone concerned. Like I said, she's in the wrong line of work.

I also find the assumptions about my personal life rather amusing. I could deny skeletons, but as the saying goes, that's what I'd say if there were skeletons.

she was an army cook, i dont think she's in the wrong line of work.. but if it was war we're talking about, if she signed up to go to war asap, then i think she may be in the wrong line of work. When she joined she just had the possibility of going to war, there's that uncertainty, so i think it's unfair that she should be thrown out of the army just because. A punishment if proven she was greatly at fault and just did that because of the fear of deployment and not because of her kid, would sound fair to me.

But you cannot just say they should leave unemployed because of it.

Wouldn't you think it's unfair if your boss would fire you because you failed to go work because no one could watch over your kid?

[SMR 368]

I realize I'm hardline about the situation. But if you read my posts, all I want is for her to be thrown out of the army. I admit that suggesting she should pay back her salary is ridiculous and punitive. I said that more to illustrate the point that the nation invested resources in her but she refuses to deliver on her commitments. It was ridiculous.

I do think the situation is her fault and I don't think that's unreasonable. But throwing her out of the army is really best for everyone concerned. Like I said, she's in the wrong line of work.

For a country that is suppose to have equal rights and opportunity, really failing in that respect. Can only think of all the rich kids that avoided the draft because their old man had money and power, that certainly isn't equal opportunity. Or the government contractors that cleaned up during times of these undeclared wars, conflicts, or whatever the hell they want to call them that to date, have not done this nation a damn bit of good. Except made some guys super rich.

Seen how the recruiter lied to my step daughter to meet his quota with all kinds of great promises, she this gal got lied to just as well in an attempt living in a very prejudiced country and taking advantage of the poor trying to make a better life for themselves. Granted, she didn't have to join, those times have changed when we were called with no choice in the matter. Either go, or go to jail, or go to Canada was the way it was. Except today, can't go to Canada, that loop hole was closed.

Also we are talking about a young black woman if anyone bothered to read the link:

Have to say, it was to one's advantage to be white during the VN era, those black guys were the first to hit the front lines. What does Obama have to say about all this?

Are we talking about 2009 or Vietnam? I didn't know there is a draft going on. That's crazy.

What has the amount of melanin in her skin got to do with anything? Way to bring in a lot of irrelevant facts. She also wears glasses and has black hair. That's probably significant.

[newlyweds 0]

I realize I'm hardline about the situation. But if you read my posts, all I want is for her to be thrown out of the army. I admit that suggesting she should pay back her salary is ridiculous and punitive. I said that more to illustrate the point that the nation invested resources in her but she refuses to deliver on her commitments. It was ridiculous.

I do think the situation is her fault and I don't think that's unreasonable. But throwing her out of the army is really best for everyone concerned. Like I said, she's in the wrong line of work.

For a country that is suppose to have equal rights and opportunity, really failing in that respect. Can only think of all the rich kids that avoided the draft because their old man had money and power, that certainly isn't equal opportunity. Or the government contractors that cleaned up during times of these undeclared wars, conflicts, or whatever the hell they want to call them that to date, have not done this nation a damn bit of good. Except made some guys super rich.

Seen how the recruiter lied to my step daughter to meet his quota with all kinds of great promises, she this gal got lied to just as well in an attempt living in a very prejudiced country and taking advantage of the poor trying to make a better life for themselves. Granted, she didn't have to join, those times have changed when we were called with no choice in the matter. Either go, or go to jail, or go to Canada was the way it was. Except today, can't go to Canada, that loop hole was closed.

Also we are talking about a young black woman if anyone bothered to read the link:

Have to say, it was to one's advantage to be white during the VN era, those black guys were the first to hit the front lines. What does Obama have to say about all this?

Are we talking about 2009 or Vietnam? I didn't know there is a draft going on. That's crazy.

What has the amount of melanin in her skin got to do with anything? Way to bring in a lot of irrelevant facts. She also wears glasses and has black hair. That's probably significant.

yeah a lot of recruiters will just tell you a bunch of stuff, and once you sign on that line.. all those promises turn to thin air..

uhmmm...

obama's black, she's black maybe the president may have something to say about it.. maybe he'll find a soft spot in his heart. something like that.. that's what i think he meant...so yeah the melanin may count