To have Russian citizenship for US born children with Russian mother or not?

[slim 1,525]

If someone has 2 citizenships, that limits the US's ability to help them, which is why it is discouraged. So no, the state department could not help get a Russian citizen out of the army.

That is absolutely correct.

If he's "Russian" (even if he's "American" too) then it doesn't matter. He has to fulfil his conscription duties if/when he goes to Russia. That being said, since he has American parents, there are ways to get him out of it. (MONEY!!!!)

[Oksana81 0]

I think you should definitely considering giving Russian citizenship to a baby. He/she will not have a second (internal) passport though, as the baby will not be registered permanently in Russia (will not have propiska). You, as a foreign spouse, will need to put your consent to child's Russian citizenship in writing. Appropriate forms can be found on Russian Consulate website.

In terms of military draft, the current laws allow men who left abroad for good not to serve in a military; however, laws may change, especially considering the fact that Russian population (especially males) is significantly diminishing.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If someone has 2 citizenships, that limits the US's ability to help them, which is why it is discouraged. So no, the state department could not help get a Russian citizen out of the army.

That is absolutely correct.

If he's "Russian" (even if he's "American" too) then it doesn't matter. He has to fulfil his conscription duties if/when he goes to Russia. That being said, since he has American parents, there are ways to get him out of it. (MONEY!!!!)

Seems like their is a lot of hokey baloney flying around and scarey stories that no one knows exists or not.

I have detailed exactly how our son, a Ukrainian citizen and eligible for Ukraine compulsary military service can be legally excused by simply registering with Ukraine as a US permanent resident and appllying for a permanent deferment from Ukrainian Service with evidence he has registered for the US draft. Now, I do not know if the same applies for Russia, seems like it might, Someone with more than 6 walking tours of marriage agencies can comment I suppose or the OP can check for himself. ...in 18 years or so. Anything they tell you today would be suject to change anyway. There is a way (and YES, money is one of them) to address the question of military service in Russia and it is not with stories about alledged street shanghais of US/Russian dual citizens which as not been documented by anyone.

There are many documentable, practical and beneficial qualities to having two citizenships, so far the evidence against amounts to imaginary pie in the sky with no suggestions, only scarey stories of a friend of a friend of a freind, who knew someone that was a Green Beret or said he was, or some such. Who really knows?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

VV, you need to enlighten up and pull the broomatick out of your "ss. I never said the current draft was two years, I said people I know served two years, they are just abit older than Putin's new rule...sheesh. But on your advice I will quickly call then and inform them they only served one year, I am sure they will be relieved.

Also theOP's son is not suggecting joining any communist parties.

He wanted opinions, I gave him mine and the reasons. If yours differs...who gives a rat's pa-toot? The OP can decide and his wife can decide.

You mentioned a two year draft and that could confuse people, so I cleared it up. Now people know the current situation. And that's a problem because...?

You suggested that "no one would be worst for wear" by serving in the Russian army" which is as ignorant and uninformed a statement as I have heard on this forum. Do a little research into suicides and physical and sexual abuse perpetrated upon new young recruits. I dispute your cavalier comments and suggest you pull your own broomstick out of your uninformed a**.

I did not say "no one would be worse for wear" though I see anything I say can be twisted and used against me. I said none of the people I knew that served two years in the Russian military were "worse for wear" Obviously none of them commited suicide, Dr Zhivago!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

VV, you need to enlighten up and pull the broomatick out of your "ss. I never said the current draft was two years, I said people I know served two years, they are just abit older than Putin's new rule...sheesh. But on your advice I will quickly call then and inform them they only served one year, I am sure they will be relieved.

Also theOP's son is not suggecting joining any communist parties.

He wanted opinions, I gave him mine and the reasons. If yours differs...who gives a rat's pa-toot? The OP can decide and his wife can decide.

You mentioned a two year draft and that could confuse people, so I cleared it up. Now people know the current situation. And that's a problem because...?

You suggested that "no one would be worst for wear" by serving in the Russian army" which is as ignorant and uninformed a statement as I have heard on this forum. Do a little research into suicides and physical and sexual abuse perpetrated upon new young recruits. I dispute your cavalier comments and suggest you pull your own broomstick out of your uninformed a**.

Here is the problem.

I never mentioned a two year draft in Russia. I mentioned I know several men that served their two years in the Russian military and were no worse for wear. This then is twsited into something I didn't say, and then "corrected" by you. I have a problem with that, yes. And then the next part of my statement is twisted by you to say that NO ONE is worse for wear. Are you one of those guys that starts fires just so you can put them out and declare yourself a hero?

As your correction points out, and also much more eloquently so by Slim, anything you, I or anyone else comments on now is subject to change in 18 + years. But for an idea the OP can check with the Russian military board and see what applies to him, as we did for our son. Experienced people, especially those of us with military age children, check into things like this. we do not fling around twisted scarey stories as "advice"

If you would like to debate an issue, at least do it using your own supporting information. Are you a Democrat? You sound just like a liberal Democrat, twisting what people say and such.

if you do not think the OPs child should have a Russian citizenship, or it is a bad idea, say so. Say why. Give suggestions on how to address problems, give him directions how to address the military serivce issue in Russia, or at least how it is addressed in other nearby countries with some similarities and suggest how he may do the same. Basically say SOMETHING rather twist statements to make "corrections" of other members that does nothing for the OP. Contribute...in other words. Actually, that IS a good word. Contribute, or go back to what you did so well for so long ...lurking. We do not care if you are Dr. Zhivago, Dr. Scholl's or Dr. Doolittle nor would I care to spend 1 second of my time to verify it, because it doesn't matter.

You give good advice or you don't. Throwing rocks at other members does not constitute good advice. Heck, Baron555's fiancee has had coffee with my wife in Moscow, if that matters. at least we know she is real and I suspect from what we know of her, poor Baron will have to put his own socks on. Sorry, Phil, but you may as well know now.

[visaveteran 1]

If someone has 2 citizenships, that limits the US's ability to help them, which is why it is discouraged. So no, the state department could not help get a Russian citizen out of the army.

That is absolutely correct.

If he's "Russian" (even if he's "American" too) then it doesn't matter. He has to fulfil his conscription duties if/when he goes to Russia. That being said, since he has American parents, there are ways to get him out of it. (MONEY!!!!)

Seems like their is a lot of hokey baloney flying around and scarey stories that no one knows exists or not.

I have detailed exactly how our son, a Ukrainian citizen and eligible for Ukraine compulsary military service can be legally excused by simply registering with Ukraine as a US permanent resident and appllying for a permanent deferment from Ukrainian Service with evidence he has registered for the US draft. Now, I do not know if the same applies for Russia, seems like it might, Someone with more than 6 walking tours of marriage agencies can comment I suppose or the OP can check for himself. ...in 18 years or so. Anything they tell you today would be suject to change anyway. There is a way (and YES, money is one of them) to address the question of military service in Russia and it is not with stories about alledged street shanghais of US/Russian dual citizens which as not been documented by anyone.

There are many documentable, practical and beneficial qualities to having two citizenships, so far the evidence against amounts to imaginary pie in the sky with no suggestions, only scarey stories of a friend of a friend of a freind, who knew someone that was a Green Beret or said he was, or some such. Who really knows?

Yeah, too many undocumented stories...kind of like your "friends" who did two years in the Russian Army, and who were no worse for wear.

BTW, the tradition in the Russian Army is to kick the sh*t out of the recruits and make their life miserable. It is a warped and sadistic form of initiation and the Russians have a term for it--dedovshchina. Harsh treatment would be an understatement. This is no "scary story."

[visaveteran 1]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

VV, you need to enlighten up and pull the broomatick out of your "ss. I never said the current draft was two years, I said people I know served two years, they are just abit older than Putin's new rule...sheesh. But on your advice I will quickly call then and inform them they only served one year, I am sure they will be relieved.

Also theOP's son is not suggecting joining any communist parties.

He wanted opinions, I gave him mine and the reasons. If yours differs...who gives a rat's pa-toot? The OP can decide and his wife can decide.

You mentioned a two year draft and that could confuse people, so I cleared it up. Now people know the current situation. And that's a problem because...?

You suggested that "no one would be worst for wear" by serving in the Russian army" which is as ignorant and uninformed a statement as I have heard on this forum. Do a little research into suicides and physical and sexual abuse perpetrated upon new young recruits. I dispute your cavalier comments and suggest you pull your own broomstick out of your uninformed a**.

Here is the problem.

I never mentioned a two year draft in Russia. I mentioned I know several men that served their two years in the Russian military and were no worse for wear. This then is twsited into something I didn't say, and then "corrected" by you. I have a problem with that, yes. And then the next part of my statement is twisted by you to say that NO ONE is worse for wear. Are you one of those guys that starts fires just so you can put them out and declare yourself a hero?

As your correction points out, and also much more eloquently so by Slim, anything you, I or anyone else comments on now is subject to change in 18 + years. But for an idea the OP can check with the Russian military board and see what applies to him, as we did for our son. Experienced people, especially those of us with military age children, check into things like this. we do not fling around twisted scarey stories as "advice"

If you would like to debate an issue, at least do it using your own supporting information. Are you a Democrat? You sound just like a liberal Democrat, twisting what people say and such.

if you do not think the OPs child should have a Russian citizenship, or it is a bad idea, say so. Say why. Give suggestions on how to address problems, give him directions how to address the military serivce issue in Russia, or at least how it is addressed in other nearby countries with some similarities and suggest how he may do the same. Basically say SOMETHING rather twist statements to make "corrections" of other members that does nothing for the OP. Contribute...in other words. Actually, that IS a good word. Contribute, or go back to what you did so well for so long ...lurking. We do not care if you are Dr. Zhivago, Dr. Scholl's or Dr. Doolittle nor would I care to spend 1 second of my time to verify it, because it doesn't matter.

You give good advice or you don't. Throwing rocks at other members does not constitute good advice. Heck, Baron555's fiancee has had coffee with my wife in Moscow, if that matters. at least we know she is real and I suspect from what we know of her, poor Baron will have to put his own socks on. Sorry, Phil, but you may as well know now.

Here's what you actually said about joining the Russian Army: "At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear."

The implication is it's safe and OK to go in the Russian army. For the record, you did not day "several" you said "a lot." An important distinction i think. Well, your cavalier point of view on service in the Russian army ls untrue and I pointed it out. I see you're comfortable being glib and cavalier...odd behavior for someone so concerned with authenticity. Your advice could get someone in a bad situation.

If you reread the thread you'll see I did offer reasons to ponder the wisdom of dual citizenship. Some have agreed with my comments.

The PhD was a joking comment. I could have gotten angry being called "Bubba" but I took int in a different direction. You chose to stick your nose in and further the insult. Only yours was absurd and not funny, IMO. Nothing on here is verifiable. You could be a big bag of wind living in Osh Kosh..but I take you for your word and admire your knowledge of Eastern Europe. And, PhDs are a dime a dozen...certainly nothing to brag about.

You're game is to question the authenticity of others comments while letting yourself off the hook. Your "stories" could be suspect like the rest of us. I take everything on here with a grain of salt.

And, guess what, Dr. Ukraine, expert with a thousand former girlfriends...I'm not a democrat. Bad guess.

I agree that all bets are off 18 years into the future. We are all speculators on this subject.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

VV, you need to enlighten up and pull the broomatick out of your "ss. I never said the current draft was two years, I said people I know served two years, they are just abit older than Putin's new rule...sheesh. But on your advice I will quickly call then and inform them they only served one year, I am sure they will be relieved.

Also theOP's son is not suggecting joining any communist parties.

He wanted opinions, I gave him mine and the reasons. If yours differs...who gives a rat's pa-toot? The OP can decide and his wife can decide.

You mentioned a two year draft and that could confuse people, so I cleared it up. Now people know the current situation. And that's a problem because...?

You suggested that "no one would be worst for wear" by serving in the Russian army" which is as ignorant and uninformed a statement as I have heard on this forum. Do a little research into suicides and physical and sexual abuse perpetrated upon new young recruits. I dispute your cavalier comments and suggest you pull your own broomstick out of your uninformed a**.

Here is the problem.

I never mentioned a two year draft in Russia. I mentioned I know several men that served their two years in the Russian military and were no worse for wear. This then is twsited into something I didn't say, and then "corrected" by you. I have a problem with that, yes. And then the next part of my statement is twisted by you to say that NO ONE is worse for wear. Are you one of those guys that starts fires just so you can put them out and declare yourself a hero?

As your correction points out, and also much more eloquently so by Slim, anything you, I or anyone else comments on now is subject to change in 18 + years. But for an idea the OP can check with the Russian military board and see what applies to him, as we did for our son. Experienced people, especially those of us with military age children, check into things like this. we do not fling around twisted scarey stories as "advice"

If you would like to debate an issue, at least do it using your own supporting information. Are you a Democrat? You sound just like a liberal Democrat, twisting what people say and such.

if you do not think the OPs child should have a Russian citizenship, or it is a bad idea, say so. Say why. Give suggestions on how to address problems, give him directions how to address the military serivce issue in Russia, or at least how it is addressed in other nearby countries with some similarities and suggest how he may do the same. Basically say SOMETHING rather twist statements to make "corrections" of other members that does nothing for the OP. Contribute...in other words. Actually, that IS a good word. Contribute, or go back to what you did so well for so long ...lurking. We do not care if you are Dr. Zhivago, Dr. Scholl's or Dr. Doolittle nor would I care to spend 1 second of my time to verify it, because it doesn't matter.

You give good advice or you don't. Throwing rocks at other members does not constitute good advice. Heck, Baron555's fiancee has had coffee with my wife in Moscow, if that matters. at least we know she is real and I suspect from what we know of her, poor Baron will have to put his own socks on. Sorry, Phil, but you may as well know now.

Here's what you actually said about joining the Russian Army: "At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear."

The implication is it's safe and OK to go in the Russian army. For the record, you did not day "several" you said "a lot." An important distinction i think. Well, your cavalier point of view on service in the Russian army ls untrue and I pointed it out. I see you're comfortable being glib and cavalier...odd behavior for someone so concerned with authenticity. Your advice could get someone in a bad situation.

If you reread the thread you'll see I did offer reasons to ponder the wisdom of dual citizenship. Some have agreed with my comments.

The PhD was a joking comment. I could have gotten angry being called "Bubba" but I took int in a different direction. You chose to stick your nose in and further the insult. Only yours was absurd and not funny, IMO. Nothing on here is verifiable. You could be a big bag of wind living in Osh Kosh..but I take you for your word and admire your knowledge of Eastern Europe. And, PhDs are a dime a dozen...certainly nothing to brag about.

You're game is to question the authenticity of others comments while letting yourself off the hook. Your "stories" could be suspect like the rest of us. I take everything on here with a grain of salt.

And, guess what, Dr. Ukraine, expert with a thousand former girlfriends...I'm not a democrat. Bad guess.

I agree that all bets are off 18 years into the future. We are all speculators on this subject.

Hmmm, you act like a Democrat. Nancy Pelosi would be proud.

Anyway, yes, I do know a lot of Russian military veterens and I know none that have any lasting effects I can tell. Though I am no pyschologist. I am just a guy and they are just guys and I never heard any of them whining about being abused, maybe they were, I don't know. Never was a topic that came up in conversation. next time I talk to Vasiliy or Dimar or Lesha or one of the other guys I speak to often, I will ask. Given that military service has been compulsary for many years, given that most of the men I know are of the age to have served in the RED Army, it really matters little that they were Ukrainian or Russian, until about 20 years ago, it was the same army. It really isn't difficult to know a lot of Russian army veterans if you live there, they are just all around you all the time. In fact I am trying to think of any Russian or Ukrainian man I know that wasn't in the military, I will have to consider it more.

I do not consider a few dinner dates to make a "girlfriend" so the number is much more like dozens, not thousands. But only one fiancee/wife.

[visaveteran 1]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

VV, you need to enlighten up and pull the broomatick out of your "ss. I never said the current draft was two years, I said people I know served two years, they are just abit older than Putin's new rule...sheesh. But on your advice I will quickly call then and inform them they only served one year, I am sure they will be relieved.

Also theOP's son is not suggecting joining any communist parties.

He wanted opinions, I gave him mine and the reasons. If yours differs...who gives a rat's pa-toot? The OP can decide and his wife can decide.

You mentioned a two year draft and that could confuse people, so I cleared it up. Now people know the current situation. And that's a problem because...?

You suggested that "no one would be worst for wear" by serving in the Russian army" which is as ignorant and uninformed a statement as I have heard on this forum. Do a little research into suicides and physical and sexual abuse perpetrated upon new young recruits. I dispute your cavalier comments and suggest you pull your own broomstick out of your uninformed a**.

Here is the problem.

I never mentioned a two year draft in Russia. I mentioned I know several men that served their two years in the Russian military and were no worse for wear. This then is twsited into something I didn't say, and then "corrected" by you. I have a problem with that, yes. And then the next part of my statement is twisted by you to say that NO ONE is worse for wear. Are you one of those guys that starts fires just so you can put them out and declare yourself a hero?

As your correction points out, and also much more eloquently so by Slim, anything you, I or anyone else comments on now is subject to change in 18 + years. But for an idea the OP can check with the Russian military board and see what applies to him, as we did for our son. Experienced people, especially those of us with military age children, check into things like this. we do not fling around twisted scarey stories as "advice"

If you would like to debate an issue, at least do it using your own supporting information. Are you a Democrat? You sound just like a liberal Democrat, twisting what people say and such.

if you do not think the OPs child should have a Russian citizenship, or it is a bad idea, say so. Say why. Give suggestions on how to address problems, give him directions how to address the military serivce issue in Russia, or at least how it is addressed in other nearby countries with some similarities and suggest how he may do the same. Basically say SOMETHING rather twist statements to make "corrections" of other members that does nothing for the OP. Contribute...in other words. Actually, that IS a good word. Contribute, or go back to what you did so well for so long ...lurking. We do not care if you are Dr. Zhivago, Dr. Scholl's or Dr. Doolittle nor would I care to spend 1 second of my time to verify it, because it doesn't matter.

You give good advice or you don't. Throwing rocks at other members does not constitute good advice. Heck, Baron555's fiancee has had coffee with my wife in Moscow, if that matters. at least we know she is real and I suspect from what we know of her, poor Baron will have to put his own socks on. Sorry, Phil, but you may as well know now.

Here's what you actually said about joining the Russian Army: "At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear."

The implication is it's safe and OK to go in the Russian army. For the record, you did not day "several" you said "a lot." An important distinction i think. Well, your cavalier point of view on service in the Russian army ls untrue and I pointed it out. I see you're comfortable being glib and cavalier...odd behavior for someone so concerned with authenticity. Your advice could get someone in a bad situation.

If you reread the thread you'll see I did offer reasons to ponder the wisdom of dual citizenship. Some have agreed with my comments.

The PhD was a joking comment. I could have gotten angry being called "Bubba" but I took int in a different direction. You chose to stick your nose in and further the insult. Only yours was absurd and not funny, IMO. Nothing on here is verifiable. You could be a big bag of wind living in Osh Kosh..but I take you for your word and admire your knowledge of Eastern Europe. And, PhDs are a dime a dozen...certainly nothing to brag about.

You're game is to question the authenticity of others comments while letting yourself off the hook. Your "stories" could be suspect like the rest of us. I take everything on here with a grain of salt.

And, guess what, Dr. Ukraine, expert with a thousand former girlfriends...I'm not a democrat. Bad guess.

I agree that all bets are off 18 years into the future. We are all speculators on this subject.

Hmmm, you act like a Democrat. Nancy Pelosi would be proud.

Anyway, yes, I do know a lot of Russian military veterens and I know none that have any lasting effects I can tell. Though I am no pyschologist. I am just a guy and they are just guys and I never heard any of them whining about being abused, maybe they were, I don't know. Never was a topic that came up in conversation. next time I talk to Vasiliy or Dimar or Lesha or one of the other guys I speak to often, I will ask. Given that military service has been compulsary for many years, given that most of the men I know are of the age to have served in the RED Army, it really matters little that they were Ukrainian or Russian, until about 20 years ago, it was the same army. It really isn't difficult to know a lot of Russian army veterans if you live there, they are just all around you all the time. In fact I am trying to think of any Russian or Ukrainian man I know that wasn't in the military, I will have to consider it more.

I do not consider a few dinner dates to make a "girlfriend" so the number is much more like dozens, not thousands. But only one fiancee/wife.

When I look at Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, I wonder if we made a big mistake giving women the vote. And why must they all be so ugly? Is it a law or something? Recent example, Justice Sotomayor. Old example, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Maybe that explains the interest for Sarah Palin?

But anyway, if that's your impression of me, I'm sure it would be a waste of my time to continue with this aimless back and forth about my political affiliation. Frankly, I have to hold my nose to vote for either party.

You must be an old dog if we're talking red army. Current data is preferable...I'm not interested in info from the Vietnam era. One thing I've heard in Russia is their Afghan vets are hurting much like American GIs with PTSD, life struggles, suicide, etc. We can argue about the best place to live, USA or Russia, but America treats her veterans much better than Russia. In fact, Russia does little if anything for its war vets. What a shame.

Good luck.

[slim 1,525]

Wow, I feel like I'm watching a bunch of 8th grade girls argue over who's a bigger #######. Will you girls please knock it off? Or, if you still want to cry over who said what, at least do it with smaller quotes. I hate scrolling through a whole thread of quotes of quotes of quotes just to see a two paragraph rebuttal, "Unh uh. You're a bigger ####### because you said that I said that she was....' STFU!!!!!

Thank you.

Seems like their is a lot of hokey baloney flying around and scarey stories that no one knows exists or not.

I have detailed exactly how our son, a Ukrainian citizen and eligible for Ukraine compulsary military service can be legally excused by........................................

........... There are many documentable, practical and beneficial qualities to having two citizenships, so far the evidence against amounts to imaginary pie in the sky with no suggestions, only scarey stories of a friend of a friend of a freind, who knew someone that was a Green Beret or said he was, or some such. Who really knows?

When I was in the military, stationed overseas, there was a big warning to folks of foreign descent - "If you're of XXXXXXXX descent, ensure you talk to the base foreign relations officer before being deployed on orders to XXXXXXXX."

You can insert whatever country you want for the XXXXXXs, but the policy is the same. For folks of XXXXXX descent, the rules of the host nation sometimes trump those of the U.S. while physically present. The odds are increased exponentially when someone is a citizen of that country as well.

Horror story, shmoror story. The law is the law.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Everything is verifiable...if one wishes to make the effort.

Brad, I see you're a Mox wannabee...but we both know you're no Mox, don't we.

There you go again, you big, strong, internet warrior guru you.

Wow, I feel like I'm watching a bunch of 8th grade girls argue over who's a bigger #######. Will you girls please knock it off? Or, if you still want to cry over who said what, at least do it with smaller quotes. I hate scrolling through a whole thread of quotes of quotes of quotes just to see a two paragraph rebuttal, "Unh uh. You're a bigger ####### because you said that I said that she was....' STFU!!!!!

Thank you.

Amen. Some one likes to see if she can provoke reams of vitriolic posts with the puss-pen. Verifiable idiots only rate a line or two though.

[eekee 182]

...because the attractiveness of a politician/public figure has a bearing on how well they are able to do their job. And male politicians are, as a rule, very attractive men.

*eyeroll*

as a liberal democrat myself, I could say nasty things about republicans, but don't think they are relevant to a debate about Russian military service, or Russian/Ukrainian culture clashes and stereotypes. I believe these extraneous political comments belong elsewhere.

[RobandTania 1]

I can't think of any advantage to holding dual Russian-American citizenship(if possible) except easier travel to Russia. But there can be many downsides to keeping Russian citizenship as an American, too. Security clearances in the U.S., Russian military obligations, so on.

Why bother?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Everything is verifiable...if one wishes to make the effort.

Brad, I see you're a Mox wannabee...but we both know you're no Mox, don't we.

There you go again, you big, strong, internet warrior guru you.

Wow, I feel like I'm watching a bunch of 8th grade girls argue over who's a bigger #######. Will you girls please knock it off? Or, if you still want to cry over who said what, at least do it with smaller quotes. I hate scrolling through a whole thread of quotes of quotes of quotes just to see a two paragraph rebuttal, "Unh uh. You're a bigger ####### because you said that I said that she was....' STFU!!!!!

Thank you.

Amen. Some one likes to see if she can provoke reams of vitriolic posts with the puss-pen. Verifiable idiots only rate a line or two though.

SHE started it Slim!

[visaveteran 1]

...because the attractiveness of a politician/public figure has a bearing on how well they are able to do their job. And male politicians are, as a rule, very attractive men.

*eyeroll*

as a liberal democrat myself, I could say nasty things about republicans, but don't think they are relevant to a debate about Russian military service, or Russian/Ukrainian culture clashes and stereotypes. I believe these extraneous political comments belong elsewhere.

I don't disagree, but if guns ad pie make it through and seem to be favorite topics, I don't know that sticking to strict guidelines about topics to discuss really pertains to this forum. Maybe it should but I've followed this forum long enough to know politics does come up and sometimes generates long threads.