To have Russian citizenship for US born children with Russian mother or not?

[visaveteran 1]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

[baron555 934]

I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job.

Yea, right~

Must not be that top secret, that you know it. You Americaner?

[sachinky 465]

I didn't know you HAD to be born on U.S. soil to become the President. U.S. citizenship is based on "jus sanguine" (due to blood) AND jus soli (on soil).

I know it's moot if you naturalized, but okay as long as you're a natural born citizen, then that's okay.

For example, an American couple could hypothetically have a child in Geneva while on vacation there. That child would derive U.S. citizenship due to "jus sanguine" -- blood relationship to USC parents, making him a natural born citizen AND potentially could be eligible for the post of President.

For example, no matter where Obama was born, and I can't remember where he was born right now at the top off my head, his USC mother grants him United States citizenship. It's why I didn't get the "controversy" regarding his citizenship.

Can anyone confirm/repudiate this? This really interests me, so I'm curious to learn/know more.

Edited November 15, 2009 by sachinky

[sachinky 465]

It's why a lot of people try and have their kids born on U.S. soil so that they claim citizenship. Now who's more American/or eligible to become President? Child of a Mexican couple who illegally snuck through the border to deliver that kid on U.S. soil or that above mentioned child of the American couple vacationing in Switzerland who happened to be born outside the country when the baby was delivered?

Food for thought.

Edited November 15, 2009 by sachinky

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

VV, you need to enlighten up and pull the broomatick out of your "ss. I never said the current draft was two years, I said people I know served two years, they are just abit older than Putin's new rule...sheesh. But on your advice I will quickly call then and inform them they only served one year, I am sure they will be relieved.

Also theOP's son is not suggecting joining any communist parties.

He wanted opinions, I gave him mine and the reasons. If yours differs...who gives a rat's pa-toot? The OP can decide and his wife can decide.

[baron555 934]

My RW's brother is a lifer Major in the Russian Army.

I'll ask her to ask him. That ought to be the real truth!

[visaveteran 1]

Hi,

We are very happy that my wife is 2 months pregnant and we are debating whether the baby should have Russian citizenship in addition to US citizenship. It is very easy to have Russian citizenship for kid with Russian parent(s). Can do it all in US, no need to go to Russia.

I am more cautious, because there could be obligation that the baby may not want when he/she grows up. Military draft... even US job, career consideration, can a US born citizen with Russian citizenship be American president? diplomat? And other concerns: security clearance ..

My wife thinks it is convenient when traveling and she is Russian.

Am I wrong?

Steve

I have heard from Russian men here that the military service can really be a problem. If your child is a boy, and wants to travel to Russia during conscription age, he may have a problem leaving again (without joining the army). The guys who told me this are fifty-ish, and already did their service in the Soviet military, so the information does not come from any recent experience. There are other RUB forum members that have kids that age with Russian citizenship. Maybe one of them could address the current state of the draft for foreign residents.

I can comment on Ukraine. Our son will be permanently excused from Ukrainian compulsary service when he registers as a US permanent resident in Ukraine, and shows that he has registered for the draft in the USA. He has all the documents needed and we have verified this with the Ukrainian military board. He currently has a student deferment until 2013. On his next visit to Donetsk (he is in school in Moscow now) he will file all the necessary papers. Russia may have a similar policy.

In the case of the OP, his son is (or will be) a native born US citizen. The US will always look at him in this way and no other. Anyone in Russia snatching him off the street to serve in the Russian military is going to have serious issues with the US state department. That said, no one wants to be the center of an international incident, so just register him as a US permanent resident and I think you will have no problems. At any rate it would be too soon to say now and he could alway renounce a Russian citizenship...or serve in their military. Why not? I know a lot of people that did their two years and they are no worse for wear.

I do not see it being a political issue in the future, although, who knows what would come up in an election. Were I running for President it would be at the top of my resume..."Mother is Russian, I am citizen of both!" Case closed. Certainly it isn't worse than using illegal drugs and we elected a guy that did that! Lots of political issues are really non-issues until someone tries to hide them.

Your son's future chance of being president is 1 in 300,000,000, maybe 1 in 400,000,000 by the time he is age 35. His odds of benefiting from travel privileges and work opportunities are much better than that. I would NEVER pass a chance to give my children every opportunity I could.

Factual corrections.

1. The Russian draft is one year. It used to be 2 years but the suicide and draftee abuse was so high Putin made it one.

2. I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job. He has an old uncle who was a Greek communist and this was discovered. That caused my friend a lot of grief and he was not allowed to serve anywhere near Greece. He also can not visit Greece for even a family visit.

These overseas relationships can have consequences...and not always as rosy as some want to suggest.

VV, you need to enlighten up and pull the broomatick out of your "ss. I never said the current draft was two years, I said people I know served two years, they are just abit older than Putin's new rule...sheesh. But on your advice I will quickly call then and inform them they only served one year, I am sure they will be relieved.

Also theOP's son is not suggecting joining any communist parties.

He wanted opinions, I gave him mine and the reasons. If yours differs...who gives a rat's pa-toot? The OP can decide and his wife can decide.

You mentioned a two year draft and that could confuse people, so I cleared it up. Now people know the current situation. And that's a problem because...?

You suggested that "no one would be worst for wear" by serving in the Russian army" which is as ignorant and uninformed a statement as I have heard on this forum. Do a little research into suicides and physical and sexual abuse perpetrated upon new young recruits. I dispute your cavalier comments and suggest you pull your own broomstick out of your uninformed a**.

[visaveteran 1]

I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job.

Yea, right~

Must not be that top secret, that you know it. You Americaner?

Sgt. Major, Special Forces, US Army. Special Forces always means at least top secret. Top Secret is not the highest level of secrecy. This is all basic information and not hard to find.

Still playing chicken sh*t games I see. Enjoy.

[baron555 934]

I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job.

Yea, right~

Must not be that top secret, that you know it. You Americaner?

Sgt. Major, Special Forces, US Army. Special Forces always means at least top secret. Top Secret is not the highest level of secrecy. This is all basic information and not hard to find.

Still playing chicken sh*t games I see. Enjoy.

Huh Bubba, I am not talking about the US Army. Maybe you need reset your head.

Games? Well, if that is your pleasure, then I am on to it. Just wanted to know where you are coming from.

[visaveteran 1]

I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job.

Yea, right~

Must not be that top secret, that you know it. You Americaner?

Sgt. Major, Special Forces, US Army. Special Forces always means at least top secret. Top Secret is not the highest level of secrecy. This is all basic information and not hard to find.

Still playing chicken sh*t games I see. Enjoy.

Huh Bubba, I am not talking about the US Army. Maybe you need reset your head.

Games? Well, if that is your pleasure, then I am on to it. Just wanted to know where you are coming from.

That would be Doctor Bubba, PhD.

You've gotten rather lost in this thread. As my 1st grade teacher used to say, "You need to put your thinking cap on." Or, as my coach used to say, "KEEP UP!"

[eekee 182]

If someone has 2 citizenships, that limits the US's ability to help them, which is why it is discouraged. So no, the state department could not help get a Russian citizen out of the army.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job.

Yea, right~

Must not be that top secret, that you know it. You Americaner?

Sgt. Major, Special Forces, US Army. Special Forces always means at least top secret. Top Secret is not the highest level of secrecy. This is all basic information and not hard to find.

Still playing chicken sh*t games I see. Enjoy.

Huh Bubba, I am not talking about the US Army. Maybe you need reset your head.

Games? Well, if that is your pleasure, then I am on to it. Just wanted to know where you are coming from.

That would be Doctor Bubba, PhD.

You've gotten rather lost in this thread. As my 1st grade teacher used to say, "You need to put your thinking cap on." Or, as my coach used to say, "KEEP UP!"

That is not verifiable.

[Brad and Vika 129]

I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job.

Yea, right~

Must not be that top secret, that you know it. You Americaner?

Sgt. Major, Special Forces, US Army. Special Forces always means at least top secret. Top Secret is not the highest level of secrecy. This is all basic information and not hard to find.

Still playing chicken sh*t games I see. Enjoy.

Huh Bubba, I am not talking about the US Army. Maybe you need reset your head.

Games? Well, if that is your pleasure, then I am on to it. Just wanted to know where you are coming from.

That would be Doctor Bubba, PhD.

You've gotten rather lost in this thread. As my 1st grade teacher used to say, "You need to put your thinking cap on." Or, as my coach used to say, "KEEP UP!"

That is not verifiable.

Good response, but I might have added fu, blat.

[visaveteran 1]

I have a friend who is in the military in a high level, top secret job.

Yea, right~

Must not be that top secret, that you know it. You Americaner?

Sgt. Major, Special Forces, US Army. Special Forces always means at least top secret. Top Secret is not the highest level of secrecy. This is all basic information and not hard to find.

Still playing chicken sh*t games I see. Enjoy.

Huh Bubba, I am not talking about the US Army. Maybe you need reset your head.

Games? Well, if that is your pleasure, then I am on to it. Just wanted to know where you are coming from.

That would be Doctor Bubba, PhD.

You've gotten rather lost in this thread. As my 1st grade teacher used to say, "You need to put your thinking cap on." Or, as my coach used to say, "KEEP UP!"

That is not verifiable.

Good response, but I might have added fu, blat.

Everything is verifiable...if one wishes to make the effort.

Brad, I see you're a Mox wannabee...but we both know you're no Mox, don't we.

[slim 1,525]

Second, when your child grows up in the USA, we may be a broken country in many ways.

I've given a lot of thought to this as well. All those "What ifs?" that pop up when thinking about the future.

What if the U.S. and Russia are back in a Cold War? What if the U.S. isn't the same U.S. it is now or Russia is a different country? What if the generic "war on terror" turns into a generic "war on foreigners" or "war on Russians" or anything like that? And then, what would be the status of someone whose loyalty was in question just based on their birth parents or citizenship?

Questions like this aren't exactly out of the realm of possibility, especially when thinking about the next 36 years. At the rate our Rights are eroding, I'd almost encourage Russian citizenship to give the boy a chance to grow up with some Liberty.

A US President must also be born on US soil.

Unless ACORN dupes the public into thinking he was born in Hawaii.

It's hard to predict where the US and Russia will be in the distant future but right now I'd say someone with ties to Russia might have problems getting certain jobs or working for Uncle Sam. And if they did, they'd probably not be allowed any contact with Russia. I have a friend who experienced this situation.

So, while technically he could run for office, even president, how realistic would it be if he's a Russian citizen also? And, inversely, the Russians would probably treat him the same way...with distrust.

NSA and FBI would LOVE to use your son's services. Defense Department, CIA... 50/50.

There are certain jobs where his dual citizenship would be a blessing, others where it would be a curse. Most jobs - the ones not associated with Uncle Sam - it wouldn't even matter.

If the child is eligible for citizenship in Russia also I see absolutely NO downside to it. Russian citizens have travel privileges to some countries we do not, fo rexample I need a visa for Russia, my Ukrainian wife does not.

The only downside would be the possibility of military conscription and if/when TEOTWAWKI comes.

I would also strongly suggest that you teach him Russian also. Every adult ought to be comfortable with at least two languages, in my opinion. One of them needs to be English. Our sons score tops in their English classes as well as Russian. I just beleive any opportunity should be given to your children that you can, more arrows inthe quiver are a good thing.

Absolutely!

I do not see it being a political issue in the future

It may even help him out... just make sure it appears that he may have been born in Russia. Have grandma claim to have witnessed his birth while on her deathbed. Then make sure the Kremlin supresses all media coverage. Also make sure he has almost NO political experience, likes to play baseketball and try to time it so he runs right after someone whom everyone thinks is an idiot.

Oh, and make sure he's just cooooool. It doesn't really matter what kind of guy he is, what he stands for, where he was born.... as long as he's cool and he's not that other guy.

Good luck!