Posting grievances publicly

[mox 298]

I will try and get some raw stats on closed thread rates over time if this is really such a big issue. I will normalize to the number of topics each month for fairness.

It's not a big deal to me.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Mox - if you had read the whole report you would have seen that Jenn and Perspephone stopped being mods shortly after Krikit and I became mods so it is not surprising that there were only one or two threads closed by them. Jenn officially resigned April 16th and Persephone a few weeks later if I remember correctly. So you are comparing a few weeks to 7 months.

Alright, yes. I re-read the dates, and you're right. Sorry I jumped the gun on that. But given that skewing, I'm not sure how you can use it to support an argument either way. If you really wanted to do a fair (both to yourself and the previous mods) comparison, you should show all moderators listed, each covering the same amount of time. I agree, compare apples and apples. Your list doesn't show anything as it stands.

My other point stands: you mentioned that you locked so many posts because the members have become more unruly. That's a dog that not only doesn't hunt, he doesn't fish either. It's just such a blatant piece of self-denial that I'm awed that you actually posted it. I really REALLY want to have a civilized and respectful dialog with you and the rest of the mods, but I don't even know where to start when you make a statement like that.

This is the post to which you refer:

I will admit that the zoo became quite unruly this summer with Off Topic comments overflowing into the Immigration Forums - hence Captain Ewok's warning letter to the membership. There have been new members join who are part of the OFF TOPIC 'regulars' as well who were not here when other moderators were on duty, and we don't have a tally of how many threads were closed prior to the current moderation team (you still didnt' say if you were going to go and get those numbers for us). I do suggest that individuals read the threads that were closed and decide for themselves whether they were good calls, bad calls or otherwise. It would be for the previous moderators to say whether or not they would have closed the threads that were closed - or not.

I honestly don't see that as being in denial. This is a statement of fact. I honestly don't see how any of this is disrespectful, either. If this is not the statement to which you refer, please provide the exact quote below. I don't recall saying anywhere that I have closed more posts because members have become more unruly. Most of the 'unruliness' didn't result in threads getting closed, rather in members getting short suspensions and the inappropriate posts removed.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I am posting this as a favor but I don't plan to provide a lot along these lines on a normal basis. My take away is that the closure rate (percent of threads per month closed relative to new threads) is about the same if not falling.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Captain Ewok
updated graph for clarity...

[mox 298]

I honestly don't see that as being in denial. This is a statement of fact. I honestly don't see how any of this is disrespectful, either.

If I misunderstood you, then I apologize. As I understood, you are attributing your high lock count to an influx of "unruly" OT members. But ever since I've been here, OT members flowing out into the general public has always been a problem. It's one of my other rants that's largely gone ignored except when Ewok finally did post the warning. (hence my plea to either make an OT TOS or enforce the current TOS globally) But that was a problem long before you were a moderator. It wasn't like all of a sudden the OT membership arose like zombies and scattered to the upper forums.Jenn, Mags, and all the previous crew had to deal with them also.

[mox 298]

K - you might as well save yourself and give up. All you are doing is beating your forehead against a brick wall and getting yourself all bloody.

*sigh* I know. The wagons remain firmly and impenetrably circled. I guess I can comfort myself in the knowledge that somewhere, mistakes were made by somebody who is human, but they absolutely weren't made by anybody specifically because people work hard and want to give back to VJ. I'm off to OT now to start up some light-hearted laughs about shoving penises in women's faces because that ####### is funny and light-hearted srsly.

[rebeccajo 14]

K - you might as well save yourself and give up. All you are doing is beating your forehead against a brick wall and getting yourself all bloody.

*sigh* I know. The wagons remain firmly and impenetrably circled. I guess I can comfort myself in the knowledge that somewhere, mistakes were made by somebody who is human, but they absolutely weren't made by anybody specifically because people work hard and want to give back to VJ. I'm off to OT now to start up some light-hearted laughs about shoving penises in women's faces because that ####### is funny and light-hearted srsly.

Well, we've all taken it way too seriously for way too long, you know.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

After having read all 19 pages of this (the new 3 or 4 pages every 12 hours), I have 2.5 questions:

1. Can't we all just get along?

2. If not, WHY not, and what is the EXACT REMEDY?

[TayRivers 4]

Alrighty then. I didn't think mods were allowed to talk about specific incidents, but I really don't mind discussing this one at all. But if we're going to discuss this incident openly, let's discuss both sides. A TOS violation was reported, yes. The (your) response completely side-stepped this, however. You didn't address the TOS violation, you instead chose to tell me that if the language in the post bothered me then perhaps I should be reading another thread. Because, you know, I'm well known for my virgin eyes. So just to be clear, in the first round you didn't even acknowledge the TOS violation. You got snarky with me, despite the fact that my report was respectful and clearly reporting a TOS violation, and NOT whinging about how the unseemliness of the post was an affront to my puritanical sensibilities.

In my post about the whole situation that this thread seems to have risen from I did not mention who had reported the post that had been reported and I did not discuss the the conversation that took place as a result of that report. As far as I was concerend there was no TOS violation so there was nothing to address.

And as I explained in my PM, the post was NOT adult in nature. It was medical in nature. The respondant was the first reply in the post, not even part of some continuing bawdy rowdiness. EVEN in OT it was a TOS violation. The "light-hearted response" talked about how what the woman in the story really needed was a ####### in her mouth. Haha it's funny because it's "light-hearted."

The post is of an adult nature, it is taking about a couples problem that was discovered during sex, it is also a medical issue as it turns out that the wife has an alergy to her husbands body fluids.

The first reply to the thread did not mention anything about "The woman in the story really needed was a ####### in her mouth" The first post said "another marriage without a bj." see post HERE . I pointed out to you that "Oral Sex" is considered a normal part of adult sexual behaviour.

But you only decided it was against the TOS *after* I pushed you on it. Your first response was to tell me to avert my delicate eyes, oh and by the way we are here to help and thank you so much for your patronage. It wasn't until I pushed that you also decided it wasn't a TOS violation.

At no time did I ever decide it was against TOS. As for you pushing me on "it" no pushing was done. All that you did was to continue to say that the post was a violation of TOS. I advised you that if you found the post offensive then it might be a good idea to avoid that thread altogether.

Tay

[Nagishkaw 510]

The post is of an adult nature, it is taking about a couples problem that was discovered during sex, it is also a medical issue as it turns out that the wife has an alergy to her husbands body fluids.

The first reply to the thread did not mention anything about "The woman in the story really needed was a ####### in her mouth" The first post said "another marriage without a bj." see post HERE . I pointed out to you that "Oral Sex" is considered a normal part of adult sexual behaviour.

Was this necessary to include this in your defense?

[mox 298]

I get it Tay. You don't think it was a TOS violation. I get it. I'm sure the fact that it was a moderator has absolutely nothing to do with it.

As I said, the wagons are circled tighter than ever, with only vague acknowledgments that yes, somewhere some person who is human has made mistakes, but decisions are stood by and you are all here to help, our members are our most valuable resources we are committed to an enjoyable and fulfilling VJ experience.

I'm done here. Somebody else can tilt at these windmills.

[LaL 418]

I read that quote in that thread and thought it was distasteful, but I understood that it was just a dirty brand of humor. I didn't think it was a TOS violation in my humble opinion.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I get it Tay. You don't think it was a TOS violation. I get it. I'm sure the fact that it was a moderator has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Think back a few pages. Moderator decisions are made with "What's best for Visa Journey?" in mind. If a moderator believes another moderator has violated TOS, isn't it in Visa Journey's best interests that it be handled behind the scenes and that the public face of moderation be upheld and defended?

The appearance of law must be upheld, especially when it's being broken.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

I repeat, more intensely, si man:

After having read all 19 pages of this (the new 3 or 4 pages every 12 hours), I have 2.5 questions:

1. Can't we all just get along?

2. If not, WHY not, and what is the EXACT REMEDY?

Si, man?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I repeat, more intensely, si man:

After having read all 19 pages of this (the new 3 or 4 pages every 12 hours), I have 2.5 questions:

1. Can't we all just get along?

2. If not, WHY not, and what is the EXACT REMEDY?

Si, man?

The remedy is mo' tussin.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

The remedy is mo' tussin.

I've swigged enough cough-syrup (although the generic) recently, si man. Serious answers are still solicited, unless solicitation on VJ is Moderatable.