Posting grievances publicly

[mox 298]

I am the newest Global Mod and although some of you feel that I should not be, I accepted the role because I wanted to give back to VJ. Over the years I have seen many different way of moderation, some good and some bad.

Giving back is good. I do think that every moderator here at least started out with good intent. But I also believe the majority of you have given in to ego.

The thread that was reported as against TOS that I responded to and seems to have angered some members was in OT and when I read the thread I did not see anything that was IMO against TOS, Yes a comment was made that was of an adult nature but was in context with the topic being discussed. The "offending" comment was an attempt at a light hearted joke in responce to a medical issue that a couple were going through. I do have to ask if that comment had been made by anyone other than Charles whould it have been reported?

Alrighty then. I didn't think mods were allowed to talk about specific incidents, but I really don't mind discussing this one at all. But if we're going to discuss this incident openly, let's discuss both sides. A TOS violation was reported, yes. The (your) response completely side-stepped this, however. You didn't address the TOS violation, you instead chose to tell me that if the language in the post bothered me then perhaps I should be reading another thread. Because, you know, I'm well known for my virgin eyes. So just to be clear, in the first round you didn't even acknowledge the TOS violation. You got snarky with me, despite the fact that my report was respectful and clearly reporting a TOS violation, and NOT whinging about how the unseemliness of the post was an affront to my puritanical sensibilities.

And as I explained in my PM, the post was NOT adult in nature. It was medical in nature. The respondant was the first reply in the post, not even part of some continuing bawdy rowdiness. EVEN in OT it was a TOS violation. The "light-hearted response" talked about how what the woman in the story really needed was a ####### in her mouth. Haha it's funny because it's "light-hearted."

I stand by the desission I made regarding the comment being against TOS.

But of course you do. I see a lot of "yes, sometimes bad decisions are made," but I have yet to see a moderator actually step forward and admit to a mistake, even when confronted with it. Heck I'd probably drop dead if you did anything *but* stand by the decision. That's just not how this crew operates.

But you only decided it was against the TOS *after* I pushed you on it. Your first response was to tell me to avert my delicate eyes, oh and by the way we are here to help and thank you so much for your patronage. It wasn't until I pushed that you also decided it wasn't a TOS violation.

I do not feel it was. I take any report that I respond to very seriously and try to keep an open mind. I do understand where some of the frustrations about Mods are coming from but from what I have seen I think they do the best they can given the very diffrent social cultures that VJ members have and there will always be situation where a member finds something offensive but others do not..

Do you? Can you please tell us what about the complaints you understand? Because all I'm hearing is "I stand by my decision and we do our best." I don't see any understanding, I only see justifications.

Do I have all the answers? No I dont. I try to deal with each situation on its own merrits. Do I make mistakes? Sure we all do. I am trying to do the best job I can for the good of VJ and all its members, not just a select few.

It's easy to just rhetorically admit to "mistakes made." It's a little harder to admit to specific mistakes. You mishandled my report, I called you on it, and you blew me off. It wouldn't have even been an issue if your first response was "sorry, it's not a TOS violation." Yes, we'd have gone a few rounds as I tried to explain that telling a woman that what she really needs is a ####### slapped in her mouth might be sexist and therefore TOS violating, but it wouldn't have escalated to this.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

For what it is worth, Mox, I am going to weigh in on this. I too read your report and was in the process of making a response back that I did not see a TOS violation in what you reported when TayRivers response came through. As far as I was concerned, there was no TOS violation involved and Tay's response was appropriate. You still believe the comment was a violation. We did not. What we have here is a difference of interpretation. I too wonder if you would have reported it as a violation if it had been made by someone different.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Kathryn41

[mox 298]

For what it is worth, Mox, I am going to weigh in on this. I too read your report and was in the process of making a response back that I did not see a TOS violation in what you reported when TayRivers response came through. As far as I was concerned, there was no TOS violation involved and Tay's response was appropriate.

And as I said, this was never about whether it was a TOS violation or not. I too stand by my observation that it was a TOS violation, but this has always been about how it was handled, not the decision. The complaint was about a (imagined or not) TOS violation, and the reply was that I should read another thread if I was offended. Follow-up replies consisted of "thank you for your concerns we always take blah blah blah go away you bore me."

It *is* interesting to me, however, that it was a moderator who made the misogynistic comment, and now no less than two other moderators stand by the idea that this moderator saying what the woman in the medical story really needed was a ####### in her mouth, is not a TOS violation. You all take care of your own, I'll say that for you.

Edited November 19, 2009 by mox

[Marilyn. 340]

I just did a rough calculation and from about April/09 to the present there have been about 67 locked threads in the OT.. averaging to about 9 locked threads a month

and from about June/07 to March/09 there was about 262 locked threads in the OT, this averages to about 13 locked threads a month..

[mox 298]

Here is the summary information from March 1 to November 17, 2009 broken down by moderators.

8<...snipped for brevity

I will say that I'm pretty surprised that Krikit shows up so high in the list. But I know of at least several instances where she's closed a thread that had been inappropriately dredged up from the deep dark past. See, for example, Gary & Alla's (our next moderator if the trend holds) dig at RJ.

But what is *extremely* enlightening about these statistics is that they make my point perfectly. The trend shows that between the old moderating crew and the new moderating crew, locked threads have increased dramatically. I mean, Jenn locked a total of *1* thread during the same period that you locked 92. 92!!!!! And you're trying to tell me that this is the fault of the membership???? Like, all of a sudden the membership just up and decided we were gonna turn this place into Lord of the Flies?!?!

Once again, blame the membership, deny responsibility, admit nothing.

While I may have erred...

Sure is a lot of erring going on, but nobody seems to want to cop to it.

This is impressive. Good job.

/facepalm

[rebeccajo 14]

Here is the summary information from March 1 to November 17, 2009 broken down by moderators.

8<...snipped for brevity

I will say that I'm pretty surprised that Krikit shows up so high in the list. But I know of at least several instances where she's closed a thread that had been inappropriately dredged up from the deep dark past. See, for example, Gary & Alla's (our next moderator if the trend holds) dig at RJ.

But what is *extremely* enlightening about these statistics is that they make my point perfectly. The trend shows that between the old moderating crew and the new moderating crew, locked threads have increased dramatically. I mean, Jenn locked a total of *1* thread during the same period that you locked 92. 92!!!!! And you're trying to tell me that this is the fault of the membership???? Like, all of a sudden the membership just up and decided we were gonna turn this place into Lord of the Flies?!?!

Once again, blame the membership, deny responsibility, admit nothing.

While I may have erred...

Sure is a lot of erring going on, but nobody seems to want to cop to it.

This is impressive. Good job.

/facepalm

Oh stop it!

I'm about to pee myself laughing!

[john & jean 37]

LMAO @ R.J.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Mox - if you had read the whole report you would have seen that Jenn and Perspephone stopped being mods shortly after Krikit and I became mods so it is not surprising that there were only one or two threads closed by them. Jenn officially resigned April 16th and Persephone a few weeks later if I remember correctly. So you are comparing a few weeks to 7 months.

Ok - I went back and checked: in the same time period as Jenn was still a mod and she closed one thread in OT, krikit also closed only 1 thread - at the OPs request, and I closed 2 threads - one at the OPs request, and the other a trolling thread. Let's at least compare apples and apples.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I will try and get some raw stats on closed thread rates over time if this is really such a big issue. I will normalize to the number of topics each month for fairness.

[mox 298]

Mox - if you had read the whole report you would have seen that Jenn and Perspephone stopped being mods shortly after Krikit and I became mods so it is not surprising that there were only one or two threads closed by them. Jenn officially resigned April 16th and Persephone a few weeks later if I remember correctly. So you are comparing a few weeks to 7 months.

Alright, yes. I re-read the dates, and you're right. Sorry I jumped the gun on that. But given that skewing, I'm not sure how you can use it to support an argument either way. If you really wanted to do a fair (both to yourself and the previous mods) comparison, you should show all moderators listed, each covering the same amount of time. I agree, compare apples and apples. Your list doesn't show anything as it stands.

My other point stands: you mentioned that you locked so many posts because the members have become more unruly. That's a dog that not only doesn't hunt, he doesn't fish either. It's just such a blatant piece of self-denial that I'm awed that you actually posted it. I really REALLY want to have a civilized and respectful dialog with you and the rest of the mods, but I don't even know where to start when you make a statement like that.

[rebeccajo 14]

Mox - if you had read the whole report you would have seen that Jenn and Perspephone stopped being mods shortly after Krikit and I became mods so it is not surprising that there were only one or two threads closed by them. Jenn officially resigned April 16th and Persephone a few weeks later if I remember correctly. So you are comparing a few weeks to 7 months.

Alright, yes. I re-read the dates, and you're right. Sorry I jumped the gun on that. But given that skewing, I'm not sure how you can use it to support an argument either way. If you really wanted to do a fair (both to yourself and the previous mods) comparison, you should show all moderators listed, each covering the same amount of time. I agree, compare apples and apples. Your list doesn't show anything as it stands.

My other point stands: you mentioned that you locked so many posts because the members have become more unruly. That's a dog that not only doesn't hunt, he doesn't fish either. It's just such a blatant piece of self-denial that I'm awed that you actually posted it. I really REALLY want to have a civilized and respectful dialog with you and the rest of the mods, but I don't even know where to start when you make a statement like that.

You could try a PM.

[mox 298]

You could try a PM.

Hot tea. Through the nose. tyvm.

[Darnell 8,478]

mox, is this thing done yet? is time to close it? whaddya think?

Edited November 19, 2009 by Darnell

[rebeccajo 14]

You could try a PM.

Hot tea. Through the nose. tyvm.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!

K - you might as well save yourself and give up. All you are doing is beating your forehead against a brick wall and getting yourself all bloody.

[meauxna 15]

Once again, blame the membership, deny responsibility, admit nothing.

I take it back, you are not the new me. You don't know jack about moderating a forum.

Not saying Admin does either, but this place IS Lord of the Flies.