Posting grievances publicly

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

So assuming my sense that you and Krikit close per threads per calendar day than did moderators in the past is true, either the animals in the zoo that is OT have become more unruly since the zookeeper's ascendancy to the throne or you close threads which would not have been closed under previous moderators.

Oh while that thought is fresh.....I take offense to your title Kathryn, it infers that we the members are animals that have to come under your control, it's pretty rude and condescending imo

Ok carry on.....

to be fair I do see on this page alone a: tiger, rabbit, mermaid? sorta, and a sheep (btw I hope spooky hasn't been bothering you lol).

(okay i'm on a new page....please refer back to 16)

Edited November 18, 2009 by Sousuke

[rebeccajo 14]

IMO if you aren't 'trolling' the forums and just reading here and there, you shouldn't be a Moderator.

And if you don't read before you close.......then shame on you.

I miss Yodrak.

Yodders, LaL and myself were the Charlie's Angels. I think Yodrak was the blonde one.

You and me both.

Since he hasn't posted in the last six months, all his work on here is gone also.

And THAT is really a shame.

[Welshcookie 17]

to be fair I do see on this page alone a: tiger, rabbit, mermaid? sorta, and a sheep (btw I hope spooky hasn't been bothering you lol).

(okay i'm on a new page....please refer back to 16)

Ok point taken

[Kathryn41 3,205]

IMO if you aren't 'trolling' the forums and just reading here and there, you shouldn't be a Moderator.

If you believe that the moderators' job is to roam through every forum all the time then you do not understand what the moderators' job is here on VJ. It is clearly stated in the TOS that the moderators respond to reports only. That is all that is required of us by the TOS - but we all do more. We spend far more hours a day than we ever anticipated reviewing posts and threads to ensure that VJ is a supportive and helpful site that meets its stated purpose - to assist those on their own Visa Journeys. We deal with many issues behind the scenes that never see the light of day stopping spam and doing basic housekeeping functions. You seem to forget that this is a volunteer position only. If moderators were paid, then yes, I would expect them to be visiting every forum over and over and over and reading every thread on a regular basis to see that things are functioning well and that no problems erupt. So, if this is your expectations, RebeccaJo, then no wonder you are disatisfied - it is impossible to meet your standard. You are judging us by something that isn't even a part of Visa Journey's job description.

And if you don't read before you close.......then shame on you.

I read EVERY thread before I close it. I read EVERY thread before I issue a warning. When you see me post a 'closed for review' notice it means I am going back and reading over every single post in the thread right back to the beginning - even the ones with 20 plus pages. I always read back to determine where the 'contentious' issue begins and to try to get an understanding of the discussion. I don't issue a warning or close a thread until I have put the report in context to determine that it is indeed a TOS violation or another issue.

I miss Yodrak.

Yodders, LaL and myself were the Charlie's Angels. I think Yodrak was the blonde one.

You and me both.

Since he hasn't posted in the last six months, all his work on here is gone also.

And THAT is really a shame.

[rebeccajo 14]

IMO if you aren't 'trolling' the forums and just reading here and there, you shouldn't be a Moderator.

If you believe that the moderators' job is to roam through every forum all the time then you do not understand what the moderators' job is here on VJ. It is clearly stated in the TOS that the moderators respond to reports only. That is all that is required of us by the TOS - but we all do more. We spend far more hours a day than we ever anticipated reviewing posts and threads to ensure that VJ is a supportive and helpful site that meets its stated purpose - to assist those on their own Visa Journeys. We deal with many issues behind the scenes that never see the light of day stopping spam and doing basic housekeeping functions. You seem to forget that this is a volunteer position only. If moderators were paid, then yes, I would expect them to be visiting every forum over and over and over and reading every thread on a regular basis to see that things are functioning well and that no problems erupt. So, if this is your expectations, RebeccaJo, then no wonder you are disatisfied - it is impossible to meet your standard. You are judging us by something that isn't even a part of Visa Journey's job description.

And if you don't read before you close.......then shame on you.

I read EVERY thread before I close it. I read EVERY thread before I issue a warning. When you see me post a 'closed for review' notice it means I am going back and reading over every single post in the thread right back to the beginning - even the ones with 20 plus pages. I always read back to determine where the 'contentious' issue begins and to try to get an understanding of the discussion. I don't issue a warning or close a thread until I have put the report in context to determine that it is indeed a TOS violation or another issue.

I miss Yodrak.

Yodders, LaL and myself were the Charlie's Angels. I think Yodrak was the blonde one.

You and me both.

Since he hasn't posted in the last six months, all his work on here is gone also.

And THAT is really a shame.

Kathryn -

Didn't you just say this in your post #229 of this thread?

"Moderators respond to reports - we honestly do not have the time to patrol the many forums 'looking' for offenses."

I'm not setting my standards too high. I'm responding to your exact words.

Or are you just looking for the last word?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I'm confused. Post #244 appears to be reinforcing what is said in post #229.

[Amit-N-Melody 11]

What there is no unicorns???? I'm outa here

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Kathryn -

Didn't you just say this in your post #229 of this thread?

"Moderators respond to reports - we honestly do not have the time to patrol the many forums 'looking' for offenses."

I'm not setting my standards too high. I'm responding to your exact words.

Your exact phrase was: "IMO if you aren't 'trolling' the forums and just reading here and there, you shouldn't be a Moderator".

Please correct me if this doesn't mean (rephrased) unless you are patrolling all of the forums instead of just reading selected posts, you shouldn't be a moderator. That is not a response to my words. My words say that moderators respond to reports. Your comment is that moderators should be patrolling the threads. Quite a difference.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Kathryn41

[john & jean 37]

[rebeccajo 14]

Kathryn -

Didn't you just say this in your post #229 of this thread?

"Moderators respond to reports - we honestly do not have the time to patrol the many forums 'looking' for offenses."

I'm not setting my standards too high. I'm responding to your exact words.

Your exact phrase was: "IMO if you aren't 'trolling' the forums and just reading here and there, you shouldn't be a Moderator".

Please correct me if this doesn't mean (rephrased) unless you are patrolling all of the forums instead of just reading selected posts, you shouldn't be a moderator. That is not a response to my words. My words say that moderators respond to reports. Your comment is that moderators should be patrolling the threads. Quite a difference.

Yes it is quite a difference.

You said you respond to reports - that you don't have time to go looking for offenses.

All a person has to do around here is read up and down the boards and one can find many things. I see stuff everyday.

Make what you want out of what I said - I really don't care.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Captain Ewok in pinned topic at the top of this forum TOS Violations and Responses plus Topic Moving information, What happens if I violate the TOS? Post in the wrong forum: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=322

By request (and in all fairness) below you will find a few examples of how a moderator may respond to a reported problem. You will also find below that an explanation to how we respond to different TOS violations. This certainly should not be seen as limiting, and will vary case to case.

Please note. Moderators do not police the board. They are complaint driven and will only be notified of a problem if you report it.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Quick question. Are the findings from the survey going to be released or is it internal?

[rebeccajo 14]

Captain Ewok in pinned topic at the top of this forum TOS Violations and Responses plus Topic Moving information, What happens if I violate the TOS? Post in the wrong forum: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=322

By request (and in all fairness) below you will find a few examples of how a moderator may respond to a reported problem. You will also find below that an explanation to how we respond to different TOS violations. This certainly should not be seen as limiting, and will vary case to case.

Please note. Moderators do not police the board. They are complaint driven and will only be notified of a problem if you report it.

You mean to tell me that you have to have someone hit the Report Button for you to know where a problem is?

You can't figure out that if a thread keeps rising to the top, there might be something going on in there? I mean heck, it might even be something good. And you can't see the active threads from the SEVERAL places on the board where they are indicated?

And you don't know who the 'players' are in each forum? Who frequent posters are and who they aren't?

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

There has been a lot of discussion about closing threads and 'moderating with a heavy hand, that a lack of warning made by the moderators is a problem and that perhaps issuing warnings early on in problematic threads would allow for different choices to be made. In some cases this may be true and given the best of all possible worlds - unlimited time, unlimited moderators and every single reportable item being reported - things would probably flow more smoothly as we could be proactive rather than reactive. Moderators respond to reports - we honestly do not have the time to patrol the many forums 'looking' for offenses. Sometimes we stumble upon them as we too are members on VJ and have our own immigration journeys and interests. In many cases, when it appears things are inconsistent and get out of control without a moderator addressing the situation, it is because no one has reported it. Some threads have become quite virulent before we receive a report and there are pages and pages of insults and personal attacks. In many cases those threads are closed without warning because the time for a warning is long past. If someone had reported the thread when it first started to get out of hand then a warning would probably have been issued and the thread monitored. Quite honestly, all of us would much prefer that this happen.

I know that when I respond to a report I try to view the whole thread and the reported posts in context - where is it, what is it, who is it and what are the circumstances. Many times I will issue warnings in private so it may not appear that there has been a warning issued before the thread is addressed. I don't have the numbers for the times warnings have also been issued in public and the thread returns to a more 'correct' path. What I did do, however, is use one of VJ's options to summarize all of the locked threads since I (and Krikit since we were appointed at the same time) became moderators. I went through every forum and tallied who closed what thread and for what reason. I also made a list of all of the post numbers for threads that were closed without a public warning being issued so that members could themselves go back and review these threads to see if a poor choice was made by the moderator or not. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of these posts where private warnings were issued as that information isn't readily available to me.

Here is the summary information from March 1 to November 17, 2009 broken down by moderators. ( I do have it itemized by forums as well). The categories include total threads closed, total threads closed without a warning; total threads closed with one warning; total threads closed with two or more warnings; total threads closed for 'other than TOS violations" (include duplicate threads, trolling, spam, too large threads with a new one started, baiting threads, racist threads, illegal activity threads, drastically off topic threads (multiple pages), and 'closed for review and no decision' threads), and finally threads requested closed by the OP:

Name .. Total closed ..... Closed w/o warning ..... one warning .... two+ warning ... Other... OP's request

Kathryn41...........92...................... 22......................... 13 ............... 5................. 24......... 28

Krikit..................61...................... 22......................... 11................ 3................. 16............ 9

William33............22....................... 6............................2....... ..........1.................. 9............ 4

Capt. Ewok.........28........................ 0........................... 1..................0.................22............ 5

*TayRivers.......... 4........................ 1........................... 0................. 0................. 1............ 2

*Charles............. 5........................ 0........................... 1................. 1................. 2............ 1

*Persephone. ..... 4........................ 3........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 1

*RonMay............. 3........................ 1........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 2

*Kim&Russ.......... 1........................ 1........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 0

*Jenn.................. 1........................ 1........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 0

unspecified..... ....20.

TOTALS............. 241.....................57 .......................... 28 ............... 10 ............... 74.......... 52

* Persephone and Jenn stopped being moderators shortly after Krikit and I started; RonMay was moderator for a few months during this time; TayRivers and Charles became mods during this time.

Due to holidays, work commitments and personal commitments for many weeks of the above I was the only moderator on regular duty and it is reflected in the numbers. I will say that I have always tried to treat every member of VJ with whom I have interacted with respect and personal integrity. While I may have erred I have always tried to make my moderating decisions in the best interests of Visa Journey - which may not always be the perceived best interest by/of the individuals involved.

Here is a list of the thread numbers closed without warning. You can access all of them by typing http://visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic= , the = followed immediately by the number of the post.

Kathryn41: 215872, 215810, 215525, 214041, 211910, 209343, 209174, 209093, 198906, 197676, 188892

Krikit: 222103, 218728, 205149, 203757, 202078, 201783, 201123

William33: 29669,190327,188179, and one made invisible so no way to access thread through number

Persephone: 189045

KimandRuss: 185872

Jenn: 179877

If you do take the time to read the threads closed without a warning issued prior to closing, you will notice that in the majority of them VJ members were calling for the thread to be closed or anticipating its closure at any moment.

(edited to correct format of info)

Oops - further edit - the listed topic numbers are only for the threads closed in Off Topic without a warning. I will post the other threads closed in the other forums below.

This is impressive. Good job.

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

Quick question. Are the findings from the survey going to be released or is it internal?

all the mod sections will be released however people are still getting to filling it out (lots of results still coming in).... great turn-out in people filling it out.