Posting grievances publicly

[TayRivers 4]

I am the newest Global Mod and although some of you feel that I should not be, I accepted the role because I wanted to give back to VJ. Over the years I have seen many different way of moderation, some good and some bad.

The thread that was reported as against TOS that I responded to and seems to have angered some members was in OT and when I read the thread I did not see anything that was IMO against TOS, Yes a comment was made that was of an adult nature but was in context with the topic being discussed. The "offending" comment was an attempt at a light hearted joke in responce to a medical issue that a couple were going through. I do have to ask if that comment had been made by anyone other than Charles whould it have been reported?

I stand by the desission I made regarding the comment being against TOS. I do not feel it was. I take any report that I respond to very seriously and try to keep an open mind. I do understand where some of the frustrations about Mods are coming from but from what I have seen I think they do the best they can given the very diffrent social cultures that VJ members have and there will always be situation where a member finds something offensive but others do not..

Do I have all the answers? No I dont. I try to deal with each situation on its own merrits. Do I make mistakes? Sure we all do. I am trying to do the best job I can for the good of VJ and all its members, not just a select few.

Taylor

[TBoneTX 46,075]

I would like to suggest a week with no moderation

As it is said, "A week without moderation is like... uh... a bell without a taco -- no; uh... a moose without a gyroscope... uh, er... si, man.

[rebeccajo 14]

If someone misbehaves in public, they should get the consequences in public.

I agree. I've never understood why that's discouraged here.

idk about here. but, on another site i PT mod on. ...no not there-sherdog.com.

the admin wants modding to be done in a office or work fashion...supervisor to employee. praise in public - reprimand in private. to avoid embarrasment to the member & resentment towards mods from other members.

That'd be ok if people acted like adults.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

There has been a lot of discussion about closing threads and 'moderating with a heavy hand, that a lack of warning made by the moderators is a problem and that perhaps issuing warnings early on in problematic threads would allow for different choices to be made. In some cases this may be true and given the best of all possible worlds - unlimited time, unlimited moderators and every single reportable item being reported - things would probably flow more smoothly as we could be proactive rather than reactive. Moderators respond to reports - we honestly do not have the time to patrol the many forums 'looking' for offenses. Sometimes we stumble upon them as we too are members on VJ and have our own immigration journeys and interests. In many cases, when it appears things are inconsistent and get out of control without a moderator addressing the situation, it is because no one has reported it. Some threads have become quite virulent before we receive a report and there are pages and pages of insults and personal attacks. In many cases those threads are closed without warning because the time for a warning is long past. If someone had reported the thread when it first started to get out of hand then a warning would probably have been issued and the thread monitored. Quite honestly, all of us would much prefer that this happen.

I know that when I respond to a report I try to view the whole thread and the reported posts in context - where is it, what is it, who is it and what are the circumstances. Many times I will issue warnings in private so it may not appear that there has been a warning issued before the thread is addressed. I don't have the numbers for the times warnings have also been issued in public and the thread returns to a more 'correct' path. What I did do, however, is use one of VJ's options to summarize all of the locked threads since I (and Krikit since we were appointed at the same time) became moderators. I went through every forum and tallied who closed what thread and for what reason. I also made a list of all of the post numbers for threads that were closed without a public warning being issued so that members could themselves go back and review these threads to see if a poor choice was made by the moderator or not. Unfortunately, I don't have the number of these posts where private warnings were issued as that information isn't readily available to me.

Here is the summary information from March 1 to November 17, 2009 broken down by moderators. ( I do have it itemized by forums as well). The categories include total threads closed, total threads closed without a warning; total threads closed with one warning; total threads closed with two or more warnings; total threads closed for 'other than TOS violations" (include duplicate threads, trolling, spam, too large threads with a new one started, baiting threads, racist threads, illegal activity threads, drastically off topic threads (multiple pages), and 'closed for review and no decision' threads), and finally threads requested closed by the OP:

Name .. Total closed ..... Closed w/o warning ..... one warning .... two+ warning ... Other... OP's request

Kathryn41...........92...................... 22......................... 13 ............... 5................. 24......... 28

Krikit..................61...................... 22......................... 11................ 3................. 16............ 9

William33............22....................... 6............................2....... ..........1.................. 9............ 4

Capt. Ewok.........28........................ 0........................... 1..................0.................22............ 5

*TayRivers.......... 4........................ 1........................... 0................. 0................. 1............ 2

*Charles............. 5........................ 0........................... 1................. 1................. 2............ 1

*Persephone. ..... 4........................ 3........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 1

*RonMay............. 3........................ 1........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 2

*Kim&Russ.......... 1........................ 1........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 0

*Jenn.................. 1........................ 1........................... 0................. 0.................. 0............ 0

unspecified..... ....20.

TOTALS............. 241.....................57 .......................... 28 ............... 10 ............... 74.......... 52

* Persephone and Jenn stopped being moderators shortly after Krikit and I started; RonMay was moderator for a few months during this time; TayRivers and Charles became mods during this time.

Due to holidays, work commitments and personal commitments for many weeks of the above I was the only moderator on regular duty and it is reflected in the numbers. I will say that I have always tried to treat every member of VJ with whom I have interacted with respect and personal integrity. While I may have erred I have always tried to make my moderating decisions in the best interests of Visa Journey - which may not always be the perceived best interest by/of the individuals involved.

Here is a list of the thread numbers closed without warning. You can access all of them by typing http://visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic= , the = followed immediately by the number of the post.

Kathryn41: 215872, 215810, 215525, 214041, 211910, 209343, 209174, 209093, 198906, 197676, 188892

Krikit: 222103, 218728, 205149, 203757, 202078, 201783, 201123

William33: 29669,190327,188179, and one made invisible so no way to access thread through number

Persephone: 189045

KimandRuss: 185872

Jenn: 179877

If you do take the time to read the threads closed without a warning issued prior to closing, you will notice that in the majority of them VJ members were calling for the thread to be closed or anticipating its closure at any moment.

(edited to correct format of info)

Oops - further edit - the listed topic numbers are only for the threads closed in Off Topic without a warning. I will post the other threads closed in the other forums below.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Kathryn41

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

How about similar statistics for the same amount of time, prior to any of the current moderators being moderators?

[Kathryn41 3,205]

If you want to do the work, go for it. You can find the link in each forum at the bottom of the page where it says 'all topics'. Pull that down to see where it says 'locked threads' then select 'go'. I did find it very interesting that right when I started there were almost identical discussions and complaints going on about the existing moderators. If you read over some of the comments prior to the dates listed above you might find that the conversation hasn't really changed - just the names of the moderators.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Kathryn41

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

If you want to do the work, go for it.

I figured you already did the work, therefore I asked. It's my feeling that the rate at which threads get locked since you and Krikit became moderators is much higher. Obviously, I can't substantiate that and was hoping you could do it for me

[*julez* 124]

I'd be embarrassed to admit that I'd closed 92 threads in less than 9 months, even if the information is publicly available.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I'd be embarrassed to admit that I'd closed 92 threads in less than 9 months, even if the information is publicly available.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Cut the figure in half if you are dealing with posts closed for personal insults and attacks/TOS violations. Approximately one quarter of the total were closed at the Original Poster's request; another quarter was closed due to more administrative type of issues or issues that were deliberate trolls, rascist or baiting threads. Of the remaining 40 approximately half were closed without a prior warning while the remaining half were closed after one or more warnings. I posted the links to the threads that were closed without warning so members could view them for themselves and decide if it was a poor choice or not.

I will reiterate that moderation is kind of like 'action and consequences'. When there are certain actions involved, certain consequences follow. Of the 22 threads I closed without warning, 11 were in Off Topic forum (that's half).

Edited November 18, 2009 by Kathryn41

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

So assuming my sense that you and Krikit close per threads per calendar day than did moderators in the past is true, either the animals in the zoo that is OT have become more unruly since the zookeeper's ascendancy to the throne or you close threads which would not have been closed under previous moderators.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I will admit that the zoo became quite unruly this summer with Off Topic comments overflowing into the Immigration Forums - hence Captain Ewok's warning letter to the membership. There have been new members join who are part of the OFF TOPIC 'regulars' as well who were not here when other moderators were on duty, and we don't have a tally of how many threads were closed prior to the current moderation team (you still didnt' say if you were going to go and get those numbers for us). I do suggest that individuals read the threads that were closed and decide for themselves whether they were good calls, bad calls or otherwise. It would be for the previous moderators to say whether or not they would have closed the threads that were closed - or not.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Kathryn41

[Welshcookie 17]

So assuming my sense that you and Krikit close per threads per calendar day than did moderators in the past is true, either the animals in the zoo that is OT have become more unruly since the zookeeper's ascendancy to the throne or you close threads which would not have been closed under previous moderators.

Oh while that thought is fresh.....I take offense to your title Kathryn, it infers that we the members are animals that have to come under your control, it's pretty rude and condescending imo

Ok carry on.....

[Mags 112]

I miss Yodrak.

Yodders, LaL and myself were the Charlie's Angels. I think Yodrak was the blonde one.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Other threads closed (immigration forums):

Kathryn41: #207669, 215806, 223781, 196598, 209578, 197071, 223324, 188079, 207804, 198430,198397

Krikit: #203578, 189699, 211252, 208240, 203682, 204723, 199955, 206797, 224036, 208876, 195703, 189571,193853, 220247

William33: #218041, 183387

RonMay: #203682

TayRivers: #216230