Posting grievances publicly

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

I recognize your perspective. Can you please define large portion? How did you arrive at this figure? I am admittedly a numbers person and I like to quantify things as much as possible to help me better understand stuff (years of being in science I guess). I also like to understand if the feedback I am getting is subjective, objective or derived from a solid extrapolated source (random group survey of population extrapolated to the whole).

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

I got the list from a standard built in feature on VJ that even members have access to.

No is is questioning how you got the list. Everybody participating on this thread has been around this forum long enough to know the feature exists.

What I'm questioning is why you thought producing a list like that demonstrates anything. It's the kind of dumb idea I'd expect to have come from your moderation team, not you.

Then I guess I am dumb. I was using it to say that there indeed is a vocal minority which is not a bad thing. In the real world there are often a select few advocates for a cause that speak louder than others. The list showed that there are a few people who have posted frequently (much more than others) in the thread "about grievances" they may have. I understand that not everyone is online or even cares to post as much as they do.... but to me I interpreted the data that way (which even so is not an insult, but simply says that they are passionate -- which is awesome -- for their beliefs).

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

I recognize your perspective. Can you please define large portion? How did you arrive at this figure? I am admittedly a numbers person and I like to quantify things as much as possible to help me better understand stuff (years of being in science I guess). I also like to understand if the feedback I am getting is subjective, objective or derived from a solid extrapolated source (random group survey of population extrapolated to the whole).

Poll it, numbers guy.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

The thread is on ignore now, julez.

I think it always was, RJ, despite the responses. We all know nothing will change.

ETA: Plus, I only really posted because I wanted to point out that discussions become "moot", not "mute".

sorry for the grammar with mute .

Actually the Deputy Mod feature is a direct decedent of feedback from Mox. I would in fact say his prior thread led to the creation of such a role to allow more personal "steering" of the forums by a mod. This mod rank can not suspend members and is there to shape the conversation and members when they are drifting towards violating the TOS (stop things early) and to do so better because they may understand the local feel for the forum better. This will prevent mods from having to use a mallet when something more elegant works better. In the end the Deputy Mod can differ to a Global Mod for larger issues regarding suspensions, etc..

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

I recognize your perspective. Can you please define large portion? How did you arrive at this figure? I am admittedly a numbers person and I like to quantify things as much as possible to help me better understand stuff (years of being in science I guess). I also like to understand if the feedback I am getting is subjective, objective or derived from a solid extrapolated source (random group survey of population extrapolated to the whole).

Poll it, numbers guy.

Sure. I may indeed but not via the forums polls. That is simply unscientific (sorry). It would be by using a random pool of members that have posted int he last 3 months and sending a poll to them directly and privately. I would want to do this myself regardless because there are many other questions that I would like feedback on for items like site design, layout, etc that would be useful to get feedback on. This would be a good thing to ask as well (some questions on feedback of these issues, how we -- even me -- can perform better, etc). I would do the poll and not delegate or accept this from an third party to ensure the results were not screwed by the test maker.

[mox 298]

No offense w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r, but honestly I don't think it matters where the list came from. There are larger points to be discussed without getting side-tracked in speculation as to whose idea it was. I agree that it doesn't support the argument being made.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

No offense w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r, but honestly I don't think it matters where the list came from. There are larger points to be discussed without getting side-tracked in speculation as to whose idea it was. I agree that it doesn't support the argument being made.

I felt it supported mine and I grabbed the list myself. It took about 10 seconds to copy and paste. Maybe it did not support my perspective as well as I thought -- maybe I explained my perspective poorly or what I was trying to show even more poorly. Who knows. I will agree on this though. Bickering over that is absolutely silly and OT.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Quick question. Can I get a 4-5 hour reprieve to grab a for Zzzz's? I really need them! I will get back on once I wake up. Trying to sleep when my Blackberry is buzzing constantly (every time there is a reply to this thread) makes for "no sleep". I really need sleep right now so as a favor can we pause and resume in a few hours?

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

>> Jumping in bed now. Feel free to reply after say 4PM EST (I will be up about then). As a courtesy if you are willing, hold the replies until then (reduce blackberry buzz'age and ringing).

** This is not me being dismissive -- this is a call for a little sleep for me Thank you **

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

I recognize your perspective. Can you please define large portion? How did you arrive at this figure? I am admittedly a numbers person and I like to quantify things as much as possible to help me better understand stuff (years of being in science I guess). I also like to understand if the feedback I am getting is subjective, objective or derived from a solid extrapolated source (random group survey of population extrapolated to the whole).

Poll it, numbers guy.

Sure. I may indeed but not via the forums polls. That is simply unscientific (sorry). It would be by using a random pool of members that have posted int he last 3 months and sending a poll to them directly and privately. I would want to do this myself regardless because there are many other questions that I would like feedback on for items like site design, layout, etc that would be useful to get feedback on. This would be a good thing to ask as well (some questions on feedback of these issues, how we -- even me -- can perform better, etc). I would do the poll and not delegate or accept this from an third party to ensure the results were not screwed by the test maker.

That is a very good idea.

[Krikit 1,164]

Speaking from my own perspective and not on behalf of the moderating team or the administration..... I would agree that concerns in this thread are valid and the moderating team is working to improve our approach. The intent behind the words is difficult to convey or receive in this medium so that is a challenge for us all. Interpretation and conveyance of the written word, and how people react to those words, are also influenced by the uniqueness of the individual. Finding a balance which embraces your own uniqueness, while actively seeking understanding across lines of difference, can be quite daunting. Constructive feedback plays a vital part in the growth and understanding of actions and the individuals involved.

I endeavour to be responsive to the concerns, and mindful of the uniqueness, of the members of this board, as well as to respect their individuality, but I also believe that it is the responsibility of each and every one of us to do the same. I enjoy participating in topics of conversation, as well as assisting where possible, but there is a distinction between my role as a moderator (when called upon) and my enjoyment of the board as a member..... even if others do not see it in the same light. It is a matter of striking the right balance. Once my role or identity is blurred or depreciated to the point of no return (by myself or others) it will be time to move on.

Anyway, it has been interesting reading the opinions and comments in this thread. So, thank you.

[mox 298]

Krikit for Moderator Czar.

Seriously. (and thank you.)

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Back awake. I am going to work with getting the upper form list of candidates refined some (just as an fyi). Also going to see about a nice survey to get wider feedback on a range of issues beyond this as well.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Yes, Krikit is kewl.

Back awake. I am going to work with getting the upper form list of candidates refined some (just as an fyi). Also going to see about a nice survey to get wider feedback on a range of issues beyond this as well.

Pick respondents randomly please. Don't pick charles and all 10 of his alts

[NArocks 13]

Most people only speak up to complain (this is unfortunately true). I do get lots of good feedback via PM and email from time to time and if you take away the people participating in this thread, I rarely get any serious complaints on the moderation; not to say that you or people in this thread are wrong -- just that I don't get many other complaints about the moderation from other people on a frequent basis. This said, I can agree there are areas that can be improved and we haev talked about several in this thread.... a good thing . I will also admit errors are occasionally made by mods and myself but this is not necessarily a sign of people doing things bad or disingenuous on purpose -- it is just human.

Ewok, you keep talking about feedback. Do you ever do a search history on the posts that your moderators write? Because your inbox only tells you part of the story. I and others have shown concrete examples of problems. I mean, this isn't something I'm just making up. It's posted on the forums, it's recorded in pm's. In fact, RJ just posted a link that demonstrates it perfectly. What do you have to say about the link?

Your feedback is only part of the story. Start reading what your moderators are writing.

I did read it. A few posts prior a member said:

Nice to hear, Colleens!

On a completely unrelated note... I just stumbled across the "Site Related Discussion" forum and I see that tons of folks are up in arms about the moderators here. I've only been an active poster at this site for a month, but it totally blows me away that there are legions of VJers unhappy with the mods! I haven't even noticed any bad moderation here, let alone seen it as a major problem...

Which I suppose is an example of a member that has not seen the plague of bad moderation you speak of. The mod subsequently was simply being playful. Frankly the mods volunteer and get slammed all the time when someone thinks they do wrong and rarely when people think they do something right. The fact is that many of the vocal complaints do indeed come from a small group of people. I am not saying this is bad -- but it is true. The mod replied to the above part ("I've only been an active poster at this site for a month, but it totally blows me away that there are legions of VJers unhappy with the mods! I haven't even noticed any bad moderation here, let alone seen it as a major problem..."):

It's actually more like a small but very vocal minority . . . you'll see the same names over and over again.

And thanks for the nice comment about the moderation (your cheque is in the mail!).

The first part is true in the sense that there is a small vocal group of people who do indeed raise a large % of any overall criticism of the mods. As such their names certainly do pop up again and again when they voice their opinion. The second part is thanking them saying something kind and thankful about the moderation -- something that is not common simply because the truth is that being a mod is often a thankless volunteer job done by dedicated members.

In reading this for the second time, I bring up the fact that this person quoting has been posting for a month I am not saying they are useless however they are just at the start of their journey where many have already completed it yet come back to help others. , however one of the things I am up in arms about is the total mis information that is constantly posted on the upper forums.However when a oldie steps in ( also a regualr in OT ) they get slammed for the information they are trying to present as fact. I post a boat load ( well I did ) in OT however as I have been through this process with 2 kids after the fact I post a lot of stuff on this when I see a post. But altely I have basically stayed away. As you can see from my posted threads.

I feel that anyone you pick will most likley be slammed by us vocal people reason being is sometimes persons picked are more lost than the nOOBs.

Just my 2 cents

PS I like Krikit