Posting grievances publicly

[*julez* 124]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

The thread is on ignore now, julez.

I think it always was, RJ, despite the responses. We all know nothing will change.

ETA: Plus, I only really posted because I wanted to point out that discussions become "moot", not "mute".

Edited November 17, 2009 by *julez*

[mox 298]

My Mother taught me that if you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all. IMO, the best thing Kathryn could have said in response to her compliment would have been a plain old "Thank you - we work hard".

It takes thousands of words sometimes to back-peddle two or three poorly misspoken ones.

This bears repeating.

Ewok, I can't tell if you're trying to spin that comment, or if you truly don't understand that it was a snide back-handed comment. I have a hard time believing the latter. I and the rest of the "vocal minority" have gone to *pains* to try to be civil, direct, fact-based, and at times even lighthearted with our concerns. Yes, we've expressed frustration, but not a single member posting here has been out of line. We believe our grievances to be real. If the moderator in question dismisses *this* very civil disagreement as the work of just a few trouble-makers, what kind of judgment and attitude does that show? (and actually, a second moderator jumped in to de facto endorse your first moderator's post, so it's not even a single moderator "going rogue.") Your moderator, one of the faces of VJ, wrote all of this off as just the work of a few trouble-makers.

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

This also bears repeating. Your list can be interpreted many different ways. I tend to be passionate about an argument once I decide to take it on, so on any given issue you're either going to see a high post count for me, or no post count for me. If you see no post count from me, it doesn't mean I don't feel one way or the other about the issue, it could also mean that I don't have the time, or that I feel like my own position is being well represented by somebody else. There are many people on this forum who either don't know this thread (and forum) exist, haven't gotten around to it, just don't feel strong or eloquent enough to post, or have decided those of us posting are voice enough for anyone else. There are also many who, by the very nature of this site, have much bigger fish to fry than to take on questions of infrastructure--when you're fighting USCIS or the consulate, griping about bad moderation tends to fall somewhere between "reorganize sock drawer" and "reorganize sock drawer again." But it doesn't mean they don't see it. And then of course there are posters like julez, who just don't feel like their voice is heard anymore anyway.

I'll also point out that the people you see in the list is pretty much a who's who list of the people who hang out in this forum. Does that mean everyone who hangs out in this forum should just be written off as a vocal minority when it comes to suggesting and discussing other improvements?

You keep trying to quantify, but it's not that easy. You count pm's and emails to validate the effectiveness of your mods. You count posters in a gripe thread to gauge how widespread the problem is. And now you're spinning a moderator's public snark into something other than what it was intended to be. It's no wonder your moderators have circled the wagons. They're not moderating, they're running out the clock. Argh.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Vocal people are always a minority.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

Looks like a $hit list to me.

Some of us spend years around here only to get boots scraped on us. It really is disgusting.

Ewok relies heavily on the input of his moderators. This is not necessarily a bad thing and is understandable given the large number of 'projects' he has going on, VJ being only one.

I would not be the least bit surprised if that particular line of argument (the post count list) was posited to him by one of his moderators.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

Looks like a $hit list to me.

Some of us spend years around here only to get boots scraped on us. It really is disgusting.

The peasants are revolting!

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

Looks like a $hit list to me.

Some of us spend years around here only to get boots scraped on us. It really is disgusting.

The peasants are revolting!

No, the peasants are quiet. This is just the work of a vocal minority

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

lol how did I end up on that list?

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

Looks like a $hit list to me.

Some of us spend years around here only to get boots scraped on us. It really is disgusting.

The peasants are revolting!

No, the peasants are quiet. This is just the work of a vocal minority

B)

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

lol how did I end up on that list?

You must be one of them vocals I keep hearin' about.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Actually I just realized he listed everyone in the thread including himself lol. NM.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Actually I just realized he listed everyone in the thread including himself lol. NM.

When it's all over, he'll turn the gun on himself.

[Krikit 1,165]

I would not be the least bit surprised if that particular line of argument (the post count list) was posited to him by one of his moderators.

Prepare to be surprised.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I would not be the least bit surprised if that particular line of argument (the post count list) was posited to him by one of his moderators.

Prepare to be surprised.

uh huh.

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

I would not be the least bit surprised if that particular line of argument (the post count list) was posited to him by one of his moderators.

Prepare to be surprised.

Well I decided to make an early night of it and was awoke to the sound of Mr Blackberry. I read through as much as i could via my mobile browser and want to address a few items. I am prepared to forgo sleep if that is your desire so I can reply further, but I would not mind being able to hit the sheets for 4 more hours.

Anyhow, like Krikit said. I got the list from a standard built in feature on VJ that even members have access to. Go to the forums view. Look under the replies column and click the post count number. You will get this list. Here is a hyperlink of the list up to date:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...ho&t=228060

It simply lists who has posted in any given thread and how many times. My name was on that list as well as mods and other people. It was simply a list to show that some people feel more vocal that others (guess what, I am at the top or within a post!). I am not slamming anyone -- saying anything else is spin.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I got the list from a standard built in feature on VJ that even members have access to.

No is is questioning how you got the list. Everybody participating on this thread has been around this forum long enough to know the feature exists.

What I'm questioning is why you thought producing a list like that demonstrates anything. It's the kind of dumb idea I'd expect to have come from your moderation team, not you.