Posting grievances publicly

[rebeccajo 14]

this isn't some professional organization.. it is a message board...

and it isn't like Kathryn named names or anything she was just making a comment based on her experience as mod.. I didn't see it as snarky at all...

That's fine. You are entitled to your opinion.

And I'm entitled to mine. And I've got good reason to have it.

[Mags 112]

as for other mods being so much better then the curent mods.. they had thier fair share of haters too..

why do you think most of them aren't mods anymore??

With the greatest respect Marilyn, you don't actually know the reasons why the old mods stepped down.

You're post here is pure conjecture.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Persephone

[Marilyn. 340]

as for other mods being so much better then the curent mods.. they had thier fair share of haters too..

why do you think most of them aren't mods anymore??

With the greatest respect Marilyn, you don't actually know the reasons why the old mods stepped down.

You're post here is pure conjecture.

yeah sorry I was just guessing

[Mags 112]

as for other mods being so much better then the curent mods.. they had thier fair share of haters too..

why do you think most of them aren't mods anymore??

With the greatest respect Marilyn, you don't actually know the reasons why the old mods stepped down.

You're post here is pure conjecture.

yeah sorry I was just guessing

It's okay; I just didn't want anyone getting the wrong idea!

[mox 298]

And back to Mox on the Regional Forums Deputy mod. Despite the criticism that you and a few others had (very strong) initially, I am happy to say that this has worked out quite well so far. Regardless of the assumption of "failure" I think the Regional Forums are better off than before now.

I wasn't trying to stir that debate up again, I was making the point that the times I see a moderator being "defended" is usually by the crew he or she hangs with personally. I'll concede that the regionals haven't collapsed into chaos and food fights, but I don't think anyone including myself expected the absolute worst like that. This, I believe, has more to do with how much the regionals (with a few exceptions that still seem to be exceptions) didn't need help anyway. It's always been the upper forums that needed the most attention anyway. So basically you have a regional moderator who's managed not to bring the regional forums to the brink of revolution. Er...congratulations?

[mox 298]

Most people only speak up to complain (this is unfortunately true). I do get lots of good feedback via PM and email from time to time and if you take away the people participating in this thread, I rarely get any serious complaints on the moderation; not to say that you or people in this thread are wrong -- just that I don't get many other complaints about the moderation from other people on a frequent basis. This said, I can agree there are areas that can be improved and we haev talked about several in this thread.... a good thing . I will also admit errors are occasionally made by mods and myself but this is not necessarily a sign of people doing things bad or disingenuous on purpose -- it is just human.

Ewok, you keep talking about feedback. Do you ever do a search history on the posts that your moderators write? Because your inbox only tells you part of the story. I and others have shown concrete examples of problems. I mean, this isn't something I'm just making up. It's posted on the forums, it's recorded in pm's. In fact, RJ just posted a link that demonstrates it perfectly. What do you have to say about the link?

Your feedback is only part of the story. Start reading what your moderators are writing.

[TBoneTX 45,291]

Snark, n. - a large fish with big teeth, best defended against with a harpoon and a jar of tartar sauce, si man.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Most people only speak up to complain (this is unfortunately true). I do get lots of good feedback via PM and email from time to time and if you take away the people participating in this thread, I rarely get any serious complaints on the moderation; not to say that you or people in this thread are wrong -- just that I don't get many other complaints about the moderation from other people on a frequent basis. This said, I can agree there are areas that can be improved and we haev talked about several in this thread.... a good thing . I will also admit errors are occasionally made by mods and myself but this is not necessarily a sign of people doing things bad or disingenuous on purpose -- it is just human.

Ewok, you keep talking about feedback. Do you ever do a search history on the posts that your moderators write? Because your inbox only tells you part of the story. I and others have shown concrete examples of problems. I mean, this isn't something I'm just making up. It's posted on the forums, it's recorded in pm's. In fact, RJ just posted a link that demonstrates it perfectly. What do you have to say about the link?

Your feedback is only part of the story. Start reading what your moderators are writing.

I did read it. A few posts prior a member said:

Nice to hear, Colleens!

On a completely unrelated note... I just stumbled across the "Site Related Discussion" forum and I see that tons of folks are up in arms about the moderators here. I've only been an active poster at this site for a month, but it totally blows me away that there are legions of VJers unhappy with the mods! I haven't even noticed any bad moderation here, let alone seen it as a major problem...

Which I suppose is an example of a member that has not seen the plague of bad moderation you speak of. The mod subsequently was simply being playful. Frankly the mods volunteer and get slammed all the time when someone thinks they do wrong and rarely when people think they do something right. The fact is that many of the vocal complaints do indeed come from a small group of people. I am not saying this is bad -- but it is true. The mod replied to the above part ("I've only been an active poster at this site for a month, but it totally blows me away that there are legions of VJers unhappy with the mods! I haven't even noticed any bad moderation here, let alone seen it as a major problem..."):

It's actually more like a small but very vocal minority . . . you'll see the same names over and over again.

And thanks for the nice comment about the moderation (your cheque is in the mail!).

The first part is true in the sense that there is a small vocal group of people who do indeed raise a large % of any overall criticism of the mods. As such their names certainly do pop up again and again when they voice their opinion. The second part is thanking them saying something kind and thankful about the moderation -- something that is not common simply because the truth is that being a mod is often a thankless volunteer job done by dedicated members.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

As an example of the "small minority" comment you said was an attack, rude, etc.. Lets take this topic for example. Here is the post count break down:

Out of 172 posts in this topic (about complaints), if you remove mine then most the posts complaining or supporting a complaint are from a few people.

*Len* 25

rebeccajo 24

Captain Ewok 24

mox 20

Persephone 10

w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 9

Sousuke 9

Lone Ranger 7

TBoneTX 5

Marilyn. 5

Nagishkaw 4

LaL 3

Welshcookie 3

john & jean 3

charles! 2

NArocks 2

Otto und Karin 2

Minya's wife 1

Chris_Жанна 1

scandal 1

What Happened? 1

TracyTN 1

almaty 1

Trompe le Monde 1

*julez* 1

elmcitymaven 1

Krikit 1

missmissy 1

SMOKE 1

Darnell 1

JVKn'CVO 1

Hopp 1

meauxna 1

Now this does not make the complaints wrong. In fact there many be many valid constructive points made -- and if so I am trying to help. That said this thread is pretty long and I do wish my time was better spent addressing those issues then posting, but I am happy to do both.

[Mags 112]

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

[rebeccajo 14]

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

Looks like a $hit list to me.

Some of us spend years around here only to get boots scraped on us. It really is disgusting.

[rebeccajo 14]

Most people only speak up to complain (this is unfortunately true). I do get lots of good feedback via PM and email from time to time and if you take away the people participating in this thread, I rarely get any serious complaints on the moderation; not to say that you or people in this thread are wrong -- just that I don't get many other complaints about the moderation from other people on a frequent basis. This said, I can agree there are areas that can be improved and we haev talked about several in this thread.... a good thing . I will also admit errors are occasionally made by mods and myself but this is not necessarily a sign of people doing things bad or disingenuous on purpose -- it is just human.

Ewok, you keep talking about feedback. Do you ever do a search history on the posts that your moderators write? Because your inbox only tells you part of the story. I and others have shown concrete examples of problems. I mean, this isn't something I'm just making up. It's posted on the forums, it's recorded in pm's. In fact, RJ just posted a link that demonstrates it perfectly. What do you have to say about the link?

Your feedback is only part of the story. Start reading what your moderators are writing.

I did read it. A few posts prior a member said:

Nice to hear, Colleens!

On a completely unrelated note... I just stumbled across the "Site Related Discussion" forum and I see that tons of folks are up in arms about the moderators here. I've only been an active poster at this site for a month, but it totally blows me away that there are legions of VJers unhappy with the mods! I haven't even noticed any bad moderation here, let alone seen it as a major problem...

Which I suppose is an example of a member that has not seen the plague of bad moderation you speak of. The mod subsequently was simply being playful. Frankly the mods volunteer and get slammed all the time when someone thinks they do wrong and rarely when people think they do something right. The fact is that many of the vocal complaints do indeed come from a small group of people. I am not saying this is bad -- but it is true. The mod replied to the above part ("I've only been an active poster at this site for a month, but it totally blows me away that there are legions of VJers unhappy with the mods! I haven't even noticed any bad moderation here, let alone seen it as a major problem..."):

It's actually more like a small but very vocal minority . . . you'll see the same names over and over again.

And thanks for the nice comment about the moderation (your cheque is in the mail!).

The first part is true in the sense that there is a small vocal group of people who do indeed raise a large % of any overall criticism of the mods. As such their names certainly do pop up again and again when they voice their opinion. The second part is thanking them saying something kind and thankful about the moderation -- something that is not common simply because the truth is that being a mod is often a thankless volunteer job done by dedicated members.

My Mother taught me that if you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all. IMO, the best thing Kathryn could have said in response to her compliment would have been a plain old "Thank you - we work hard".

It takes thousands of words sometimes to back-peddle two or three poorly misspoken ones.

[Captain Ewok 1,891]

Hmmm. I think it is wrong to just post a list like that and assume that most of the posts made by the people on there are supporting a complaint or simply complaining.

Context is needed, I think. Just posting a list is misleading.

Looks like a $hit list to me.

Some of us spend years around here only to get boots scraped on us. It really is disgusting.

It is not a poop list. On the main forum view simply click on the post count to get the same list .

I am not scraping my boot. I wear sandles . In all seriousness the fact that I am still replying is because I do care. That said I am not sure what constructive items have happened in many pages. I did take several items early on and have made (or making) some improvements based on the feedback. Other issues that you may have may certainly just have to be one we agree to disagree on. Regardless, I do care about everyones concern whether I agree or not. I keep trying to help but clearly I can not make everyone happy all the time -- as is the case here. If possible I would prefer to be allowed a few days away from this thread so I can instead focus on the final selection of some upper forum deputy mods for the trial there. Once the new mods are phased in this discussion may be mute, different or another flavor. In this case though I prefer to put my effort into making this happen sooner than later. I may not reply to any follow ups in this thread for a bit now (fyi, not being rude) so I can again focus and make this happen.

[*julez* 124]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

[rebeccajo 14]

The discussion at hand might become moot if the new deputy mods avoid modering like all but one of the current mods. Good, effective moderating does not consist of closing threads as routinely as happens on this forum. Nor does good, effective moderating entail telling members to not read threads that they find offensive. Previous moderators were able to step in to an escalating situation and calm things down before they got out of hand (in most cases). If that course of action didn't work, then the thread would (sometimes) be closed.

The real problem you have now, Ewok, is that a large portion of the membership has no respect for your moderation team (with the exception of one) due to their lack of good, effective moderation. And given their "us against them" mentality, I don't forsee that this is a problem that will improve.

The thread is on ignore now, julez.