Immigrant's Nightmare Continued

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Thanks everyone. Actually, it was a lot of sleeplessness as well(thus my posts at 3/4 am) so it is helping for that. I agree on the counseling, for myself or us whichever..it's time. Also I've been directed to an anxiety board for women over a month(2?) ago by a member of this board and it does have all kinds of coping techniques other than medications. So I'm working on it; I'm sure, like everything else..it will take time. I just feel stressed and upset and about timed-out.M. Ilove Craig so much and it's just NOT getting better.

Edited January 29, 2006 by MichelleandCraig

[Fandango 1,439]

My heart goes out to you both, Michelle...it sounds like you're in an awful situation. I've told you this before, but when I went to England, there was a long period of adjustment for me. I compared everything to home & England usually came up short. But after time (and it was very subtle)...I found myself enjoying the differences & acclimating. Hopefully, Craig will find his way here. It's not an easy process....but then again, nothing ever is.

If it was, none of us would be at this board in the first place.

As far as Daryl is concerned.....I agree with diadromous mermaid....very soon, his whole set of priorities will change. Children in the UK are also way more adult (imo) than kids here...so Daryl will prolly be sneaking into bars sometime in the next year.

I also agree with you that I don't think the messenger thing is a constructive tool...especially since Daryl seems to be shut off to you by just repeating that he misses his dad. The crying smiley guy prolly rips Craig's heart out. Perhaps you he & the boy's mother can have a chat on the phone or something so you can all come up with ways of breaching this impasse. Because wallowing in sadness isn't going to change a thing...I know you know that, but perhaps Craig is focusing on that sadness out of guilt for leaving in the first place?

At the end of the day, the boy will be a grown man soon & be living his own life. Craig needs to think about that before exchanging his whole future for that. Why, shouldn't Daryl be going off to Uni next year anyways?

I feel bad for you both, but I can kinda feel Craig's problem, because I know what it's like to be the one to stand out. But what he hasn't realized yet is that he can't go back to the way things were. I have alsways said that my extensive travel & length of time over in the UK made me a woman without a country....when I'm there, I'm missing here, and vice versa. And no matter where I am, I'm always saying "in_________, they do this, that and the other'

And when I came home one time, after a particularly hard homesick-laden time, I found myself missing things from England that I never took any notice of while I was there.

Good luck! You are in my prayers

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Thank you Lisa..I appreciate that long, heartfelt post; and to the rest ofyou..thanks for your wishes as well. M.

[broma25 2]

Michelle,

Maybe a webcam would be a help, if nothing else is will show if the smiley with tears is the real thing or just a 15 yr old trying to make his dad feel more guilty for leaving him.

I hope I havent offended you with this post, but at 15 its easier to make your parents feel guilty for the things they do.

[ChristinaM 0]

Michelle, I think it's great that you're trying to engage Darryl more. Perhaps by making him feel like he's more a part of your family and making yourself more open to him he will realise that Craig is not so far away, and by having the easier contact will dampen the desire for it somewhat.

Is there any way to get Darryl over for a visit, so that he can spend some time with you as a family and understand that because his dad is physically far away doesn't mean that he's not thinking of him, and that he is always welcome in your household.

I feel for you both, and I agree that although culture shock is a very real thing, at some point something has to give. I'm not suggesting for a minute that you and Craig can't make it work, but as you say, you have needs too which are not being met. My inclination is to say that a swift kick to the metaphorical rear end is in order, however I'm not as nice as you. Counselling would do both of you some good - a marriage counsellor would give you a place to air your grievances and maybe show Craig how unfair he is being in a neutral environment.

I wish you all the luck in the world, and stay strong, Michelle.

*hugs*

Edited January 30, 2006 by clmarsh

[Linda&Dave 0]

Hi Michelle and Craig, I am so sorry that you are both suffering so much especially as late last year it seemed that things were going much better for you both. I recognise a lot of the things that Craig is feeling because I am or have been experiencing them too. I am the immigrant (Dave) and Linda is the USC. We had a fantastic online reltionship for three years before I arrived here last June (I had visited Linda 5 times and she had visited me in the UK twice). We live in a very small, rural town much like yourselves. It is a very traditional area with little in the way of stimulation or variety. The people tend to be on the older side and most have lived in this area all their lives - it is a mining area in eastern Pennsylvania. This 'remoteness' has been very noticeable to me and not being able to drive until after Christmas put a hell of a strain on my ability to cope with the completely new life I had chosen. Plus no EAD until December....it was very hard. Linda and I rowed a lot. Not massvely or violently or even particularly heatedly but both of us have lived on our own for a number of years and that alone has made it hard enough living together - I often felt that she would forget I was there and when I have been feeling particularly vulnerable (which has been quite often) I tended to take it as a dismissal of myself so I would be hurt, confused and even angry - regretting ever leaving the UK and wishing I could go back when I had no money to do so, therefore I would feel trapped and even more depressed. Of course from Linda's perspective, she was just grabbing her space for a while - which both of us like to have at times but in my depressed state I was interpreting her actions as negative towards me when they were nothing of the sort. The way we percieve things is imperfect to say the least and it is so easy to to create false realities based on a combination of depression and vulnerability. Now, before this descends into some quack psychology class, what I am trying to say is that I empathise with Craig a lot yet have managed to avoid getting to stuck in the rut of transition - mostly by reading and surfing (the net - not many waves in Schuylkill County!!). I have a daughter of 24 in the UK who I call every few weeks but she is quite independent and so although I do miss her I don't feel guilty about being here because she will get a chance to visit this year and we will maintain our relationship without having to be physically close. With Daryl being just 15 though, of course it is much harder for Craig and I would guess that it is his feelings of guilt more than anything else that is keeping him so down and unable to adjust properly. Just reading this new thread though Michelle, forgive me for saying this, but it strikes me that Daryl should be old enough to understand the situation a little better and not be so clingy. You have been bending over backwards to make every allowance for Daryl but I think that he is old enough to back off a little and understand that his stepdad has a new life now but that it doesn't mean that Craig doesn't love Daryl or is abandoning him. Maybe this is something that Craig needs to understand; Craig is entitled to find happiness and it sounds to me that he has found it in spades Michelle but his unjust sense of guilt is not allowing him to appreciate that.

Look I have probably said to much and I apologise for that chaps. You both sound like very decent people (which is how unjust feelings of guilt can take root so easily) so please don't let depression and vulnerability tear you apart. I still get (unjustly) mad at Linda and she still tears her hair out in frustration with me when I act like a moping dope or more commonly, like I don't know whether am coming or going but we always make up and have a laugh and try and try and try not to worry about the things that don't need to be worried about. We are still stumbling through and I wish to hell we lived somewhere a lot more cosmopolitan but we have each other and nothing is going to tear that apart, not even MacDonalds, which I start with on Tuesday - and Craig thinks he's got it bad?

Best wishes to you both - HANG IN THERE!!!!!!

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Hi Dave..thanks for that wonderful reply...only one thing I have exception to..we haven't really done anything to 'bend over backward'for Daryl..I don't feel like there's really ANYthing that can be done for that situation. I do feel bad about it, am not as understanding about it as I should be because of sheer frustration(because of not being able to do anything about it!) and just fear this recent new 'connection' is going to make life even more miserable. As I've stated, I totally feel bad for both Craig and Daryl..but what can be done????He either leaves him in the UK, or us here. WHAT is the solution???I don't know anymore. I do love Craig very much but when he says things like I haven't been so supportive since he got here, things like that, whatever..I feel so hurt!!! He just doesn't even SEE it...he honestly believes that!!!! There were TIMES when I was not supportive..but there were TONS of times I was and tried to help. Those times are conveniently forgotten for the sake of an arguement. One huge one that comes up often is: I wanted to take a walk around the lake and you didn't come with me when I asked you to over and over; I wanted to go for a drive in the country and you argued with me' but what is there to SEE but trees, etc) (which is true) so ok..we didn't go for the drive that one time, but we DID go for others. I took him to a waterfall, and then about a week later asked him 3 or 4 times if he wanted to go to this other one and was ready willing and able to take him. We didn't go. Sometimes I feel like it's nice for him to focus on my downfalls and the things I didn't do and fail to see all that I DID do. Yes, at times I got frustrated and fought with him about stupid things. As I also said earlier in this thread, that's because I DO get frustrated TOO. This isn't just Craig going through this!! It's BOTH of us. He admits he has totally changed/withdrawn/whatever since he got here...I am just supposed to smile about that?? No, he doesn't say that, but when all of my downfalls come up...I feel that is mainly what provokes some of these things(not all, some) If I don't feel he even cares, feel affection from him,etc etc why SHOULD I go out of my way? I'm just tired of it all.

Edited January 30, 2006 by MichelleandCraig

[gimygirl 0]

i think everyone needs to realize, including michelle & craig, that this is not about darryl, or the internet, or them chatting every day now. this is just another excuse for craig to not deal with the heart of the matter. he's had 12 months to weigh the pros and cons, but the fact remains that he does not want to live in america.

when you peel away 'i miss this about england ... i miss that about england' 'this isn't the same', etc ... you are left with two people staring back at themselves. sadly, sometimes people think they are suited for each other but they really aren't ... all the love in the world can't change that. it IS possible to love someone and not be able to live with them.

that is one of the major, usually unspoken, downsides of the immigration process. some people have not invested the time to really get to know the other person by living together. for the majority, it works out ... for some, it does not.

mich, handle this carefully with his son. you're in a very precarious situation and one where i fear you might be vilified. i think you would be better off to address your relationship with craig versus trying to talk to him about his contact with his son. craig is going to be incapable of seeing your point of view in regards to this.

of course it takes two people to have a row and of course we don't think you're lil miss innocent! but we also don't think that craig is the big bad ogre. we all know it takes two ... i think what i'm most concerned about is his denial about the situation and his refusal to actually deal with it. i know dealing with it is going to be hard and may hold consequences that one or both of you don't want to entertain ... but something has to be done. it's not healthy for all involved, least of all corey ... he has to live in this environment and has no choice about it because he's a child. i'm sure it's very difficult for him to see his mom unhappy like this at times and not feeling secure in the fact that craig is here and not leaving.

it's unfortunate that he can't be supportive of all the work that you have put into the relationship ... but that's what depression is ... he will not be able to see that because he prefers to focus on the negative. just as he failed to see the excitement when you were planning a night away a few weeks ago ... which we were all sad to see that it had been cancelled. your frustration is completely understandable. it's almost as if he is being such a curmudgeon that you will finally throw you hands and ask him leave ... then he won't be the bad guy. if that is something that he wants, he needs to be able to sit down with you and talk about it. he needs to confront and OWN his problems ... NOT make them yours. you are there to help him and he does nothing but push you away. he needs help for his depression if he wants to be in a loving, stable marriage with you.

decide what you want for you and make them known ... you've done all that you can, please stay strong, michelle ... we're all here for you. please don't beat yourself up because you are worth so much more than that!

[broma25 2]

Michelle

I really feel for you right now, I dont know if you remember my PM from a few months ago.

Your situation is exactly the same as mine was when my USC husband was in the UK. He stuck it for 3 years and hated it most of the time. I too felt like you did, not knowing if things would be different if we moved to the US, would our marriage survive out there??

Deep down he wanted me to tell him to leave as I couldnt put up with the situation, of course I wouldnt give him the easy way out, so I told him whatever decision he made would have to be his own, I didnt want to be blamed in the future. I knew he loved me so after 3 years decided he was never going to settle in the UK so we should give it a go in the US, fortunately I have settled here very well and have no regrets in moving, our marriage is better here as he is a happier person in his own country. I am not however suggesting you do the same, that would be your decision and may not be best for you.

You two have been through so much, maybe if he visited England, he would realise what he misses in his life with you here.

Whatever happens, always remember you gave it your best shot!!!

Hang on in there.

[gotzfayth 0]

i think everyone needs to realize, including michelle & craig, that this is not about darryl, or the internet, or them chatting every day now. this is just another excuse for craig to not deal with the heart of the matter. he's had 12 months to weigh the pros and cons, but the fact remains that he does not want to live in america.

decide what you want for you and make them known ... you've done all that you can, please stay strong, michelle ... we're all here for you. please don't beat yourself up because you are worth so much more than that!

I agree Gimmy. It seems that you summed it up quite well. Sadly, sometimes, no matter how hard you try, love just isn't enough.

He may need to go back to England to figure it all out. Depression is a hard thing to live with. My hubby is back in the UK because he had a horrible time adjusting, after 6 weeks he went back. He was so homesick for England. And he is now talking divorce, or me moving there, rather than dealing with the change and the visa process. However, I think that he is scared as I am sure Craig is. He has real fears about finding work and being able to successfully adjust to life here.

I have an established nursing career here and a house.

No matter what there are no easy answers nor quick fixes. I have had to realize that his reactions and feelings have nothing to do with me. Michelle it isn't your fault, take care of you and that little one of yours. It has helped me muddle thru some of this by all of you sharing here.

Blessings to you all!!

Ronda

[Fandango 1,439]

Well I just spent the latter part of the evening reading most of that old thread. I have to say, some of it even hurt to read...I hope all of you who expressed difficulty are doing ok throughout all the ordeals. My heart goes out to each and every one of you & I sincerely hope things work out for the best.

It is a bit terrifying to think that this may be me in another year...in fact, I spoke to D about this place & this thread tonight. He shrugged it off & said 'don't be silly'. But I'm a worrier...and this is something I really had never considered that I needed worrying about. For so long, we've been so focused on the whole 'I love you, I miss you I can't wait to be with you' that I've never thought about what happens after the 'happily ever after'

But I'll be on both sides of this immigration thing....I've lived in the UK for years...and boy was it hard! I'm a n only child, and consider my mother my best friend on the planet. I would die for her right now if need be. But when push came to shove, I had to follow my heart....and boy was that hard! Don't get me wrong, D was great, England was great, everything was fine....but it was the shock everyone talks about here. I couldn't drive...I could barely understand people...I was FREEZING to the point where the first winter I actually cried from being so cold (hey, I'm in FL). I even got freaking chicken pox in my mid 20s from the plane over there!!! (only child, remember? )

Anyways, long story short....D did everything he could to help me...and I accepted the help...because without that, why the hell was I there? I wasn't going to take out my culture shock on him...after all, he was the reason why I chose to endure all of it. Sure I could sit and moan and give in to the depression, the longing for my friends, my life, my independance, my very high paying job, my 3000sf house in Miami that I lived ALONE in to be exchanged into a terraced house in a VERY small village...but at the end of the day, there was a reason why I did it, and I felt we deserved the rewards for my sacrifices....because if we werent going to enjoy that, I shouldn't have even bothered coming.

I think it's hard for both sides for different reasons. It's just like having a very sick relative....before one of my most beloved family memebers fell ill...I'd see an ill person & feel so bad for him....now, my heart breaks for the person pushing the wheelchair....because I know what it's like to be on the frontlines of something that's not happening to you directly, but it affects every aspect of your existance while makign you invisible at the same time.

Sorry for the scattered analogy, but it's late & I'm a little emotional.

It's hard for both because even tho the USC doesn't move...we have all this stress....we have to acclimate to helping our partner find his/her feet in a new world...and that seems to take center stage to the point where the USC (or the non-emigrating spouse) ceases to be as important...and that is completely unfair.

I'm ranting, so I'm out for now. Sorry if this made no sense!

[Peggy 1]

I feel that the USC goes thru just as much as the non USC does. Just in different ways.

[raphael7546 0]

Do you guys have a cam so that Craigs son can see him. Maybe the son should get one to so he can see his dad. It will be hard at first, but I think as times goes by, it will help them both.

As you know Michelle, I had to leave my 9 yr old daughter with my exhusband becuz he refused to let her move at the last minute. I at least know that in 2 yrs. she will be legally allowed to move here but in the meantime it has been gut wrenching to say the least.

We're fortunate that she is able to come for visits every Spring break,All Summer long, T-giving & Christmas. But its not really the same. She lived with me all her life. In our Parental agreement I made sure that She would have access to Webcam/mic and set up a time twice for us to Video Confrence online.having a set time is a great way for both Craig & Daryl to get used to being on VideoCam. We both have cameras and mics so no need for typing! Its not the same as being there but its pretty darn close. We usually "talk online" 3 times a week. At first it was hard and I was very sad when we would sign off , but it has gotten alot easier. It takes time! Now instead of feeling sad we look forward to our little chats. There's tons of things Craig and Daryl can do together online. Games, help with homework, surf the web together looking up the same website. There's virtual Zoos ( cameras pointed towards lots of the animals at most of the major zoos ). Criag could read to him. If they are musically inclined, they could learn guitar and pratice together online. ( of course ya need web cam/mic for this. ) Webcams aren't that expensive. My daughter and my hubby love to tell each other jokes and always end a session with there harmonicas and Kazoos. LOL ( Yes I feel like I married a 4 yr old sometimes. LOL )

Has Daryl had any counselling in regards to his relationship with Craig? I think he could do with some if at 15 yrs old he is still that sensitive and clingy. I know when boys hit puberty they go thru a sensitive stage ( Have a nephew who at 15 would cry at the drop of a hat for no reason) A few months later he was fine .

Maybe there's a MSN group for Boys that are dealing with separation from a parent. Have you looked into this? might be good for him to talk to other kids online that have the same feelings. If not and he doesn't mind talking to a 9 yr old (10 on the 8th) going on 20! , I can pass along my daughters MSN Messenger addy .

I know it must be frustrating for you but really, things will get better ! Trust me !

Lily

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Thanks everyone for the understanding words and trying to be helpful and supportive. Thanks also for the PMs..will respond to them later as well...just kinda feel wiped out thinking about it all right now so I just watched Hitch..a movie I rented the other night. Basically, we've just been avoiding one another all evening aside from another small meltdown around 7pm. I don't know what to do anymore, and neither does Craig. He's a great guy, I feel like I'm a pretty good person..I just don't know if he can do this in the long run. Time will tell, but as I've stated over and over here..for some of this(like Daryl, and just being somewhere where he feels 'normal') there IS no solution in sight..at least that I can see. I'm just really depressed about it, have been for some time, and I don't know what to think even. I'm sure Craig is bemused as I am about what to do or think. Talk to you all tomorrow..I'm going to try to get some sleep before too long. I took tomorrow off school..contacted my teachers..will be there again Tues. I just need to regroup. Michelle

[Peggy 1]

BIG HUGS MICHELLE