Foolish friend wants to come to US on visitor visa & marry b/c fiancee won't fly to Morocco

[belinda63 3,047]

Form DS-156

26. How long do you intend to stay in the US?

27. What is the purpose of your trip?

41. I certify that I have read and understood all the questions set forth in this application and the answers I have furnished on this form are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief. I understand that any false or misleading statement may result in the permanent refusal of a visa or denial of entry into the United States. I understand that possession of a visa does not automatically entitle the bearer to enter the United States of America upon arrival at a port of entry if he or she is found inadmissible.

So he must lie on these two questions and possibly face a lifetime ban if caught or he must be honest and be refused the visa.

Don't see how there is any way to get out of the misrepresentation thing. It is asked on the application for the visa which you must fill out to obtain a visa.

But I really think it doesn't matter since he most likely will not get a tourist visa and/or there is not enough income/assets to meet the requirements for AOS.

Edited November 9, 2009 by belinda63

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Advice from people about people who are not dealing with a MENA consulate is not the best advice for people who are dealig with a MENA consulate. RSN and others, while you may mean well, those of us who are very familar with MENA situations are better equiped to offer advice to women who are intent on marrying MENA men. This is why there is a MENA board; the circumstances facing us and the application of the US law is often not simiar to those coming from Canada or Asia. Please keep this in mind before insisting that your advice is applicable here as it may be elsewhere, for it is easy to mislead someone even as you intend to help them.

[JeanneVictoria 55]

Advice from people about people who are not dealing with a MENA consulate is not the best advice for people who are dealig with a MENA consulate. RSN and others, while you may mean well, those of us who are very familar with MENA situations are better equiped to offer advice to women who are intent on marrying MENA men. This is why there is a MENA board; the circumstances facing us and the application of the US law is often not simiar to those coming from Canada or Asia. Please keep this in mind before insisting that your advice is applicable here as it may be elsewhere, for it is easy to mislead someone even as you intend to help them.

[rsn 135]

Advice from people about people who are not dealing with a MENA consulate is not the best advice for people who are dealig with a MENA consulate. RSN and others, while you may mean well, those of us who are very familar with MENA situations are better equiped to offer advice to women who are intent on marrying MENA men. This is why there is a MENA board; the circumstances facing us and the application of the US law is often not simiar to those coming from Canada or Asia. Please keep this in mind before insisting that your advice is applicable here as it may be elsewhere, for it is easy to mislead someone even as you intend to help them.

Great. Comments from yet another person who has not even taken the time to read the thread. I really wish more people would take the time to understand what they are commenting on instead of blindly injecting their opinion. My comments (and a few others) have nothing at all to do this any particular consulate. I offered no input regarding the particulars of obtaining a visa in Morocco. My comments (and others) relate to immigration procedure w/in the U.S..

[KittyPollitt 284]

There is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa and marrying w/ a previous intent to do so. Furthermore, there is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with the intent to marry & immigrate as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app.

BS. Coming to the USA on a visitor's visa with the previous intent to marry is circumenting immigration laws. There are different classes of visa for each purpose. Knowingly or willfully using one type of visa for the purpose of another is flat out, fraud and misrepresentation.

Furthermore, you know better and you know that it isnt right, "as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app."

So when the CBP officer asks the point of entry "What is your propose in the USA" and the answer is "Toursim" but leaving out the part about being so clever and forgetful to mention the "getting married" part amounts to a half-truth, and a misreprentation of intent.

So if they they do not ask "ARE YOU GOING TO GET MARRIED WHILE ON THIS VISITOR'S VISA?" and nothing is mentioned on the application for same. Then in your mind its OK to be granted the privilege of visiting the country as a tourist, and not that of an intending immigrant?

It will catch up to you. Big brother is reading this board also.

As long as there is no material misrepresentation, there is no problem. Nowhere did I say that it would be easy to get into the country by being honest in this situation. You are making a lot of assumptions here, but what I am saying is really very simple and straightforward. I pointed to a thread that cites case law on this issue. If that isn't enough to convince you, then I'm afraid nothing will get you off the bandwagon.

Material Misrepresentation

Definition:

Deliberate hiding or falsification of a material fact which, if known to the other party, could have aborted, or significantly altered the basis of, a contract, deal, or transaction.

source: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definiti...esentation.html

So basically, you're saying my friend should lie.. not a good idea, I think.. Thanks anyway..

[rsn 135]

There is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa and marrying w/ a previous intent to do so. Furthermore, there is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with the intent to marry & immigrate as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app.

BS. Coming to the USA on a visitor's visa with the previous intent to marry is circumenting immigration laws. There are different classes of visa for each purpose. Knowingly or willfully using one type of visa for the purpose of another is flat out, fraud and misrepresentation.

Furthermore, you know better and you know that it isnt right, "as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app."

So when the CBP officer asks the point of entry "What is your propose in the USA" and the answer is "Toursim" but leaving out the part about being so clever and forgetful to mention the "getting married" part amounts to a half-truth, and a misreprentation of intent.

So if they they do not ask "ARE YOU GOING TO GET MARRIED WHILE ON THIS VISITOR'S VISA?" and nothing is mentioned on the application for same. Then in your mind its OK to be granted the privilege of visiting the country as a tourist, and not that of an intending immigrant?

It will catch up to you. Big brother is reading this board also.

As long as there is no material misrepresentation, there is no problem. Nowhere did I say that it would be easy to get into the country by being honest in this situation. You are making a lot of assumptions here, but what I am saying is really very simple and straightforward. I pointed to a thread that cites case law on this issue. If that isn't enough to convince you, then I'm afraid nothing will get you off the bandwagon.

Material Misrepresentation

Definition:

Deliberate hiding or falsification of a material fact which, if known to the other party, could have aborted, or significantly altered the basis of, a contract, deal, or transaction.

source: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definiti...esentation.html

So basically, you're saying my friend should lie.. not a good idea, I think.. Thanks anyway..

Nope, I didn't say that at all. Nice try though. Thanks anyway!

[SunDrop 59]

OK, I've read the thread you pointed us to.

I realise that I was wrong in thinking that the AOS petitioner/beneficiary have the onus to prove that there was no intent.

To be honest, however, we seem to be arguing at cross purposes on the rest of it because the fact is that the OP stated this friend of hers intends to materially misrepresent himself twice in order to marry his USC fiancee.

Ergo, yes, it is possible to AOS from a visitor's visa successfully even when you have material misrepresentation involved and yes, many do successfully.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

I take issue but honestly, am big and bad enough to move on from, being accused of 'spewing information on a public board' when my only inaccuracy was stating the onus of proof is on the petitioning couple. Is there really any need to be so patronising?

[rsn 135]

OK, I've read the thread you pointed us to.

I realise that I was wrong in thinking that the AOS petitioner/beneficiary have the onus to prove that there was no intent.

To be honest, however, we seem to be arguing at cross purposes on the rest of it because the fact is that the OP stated this friend of hers intends to materially misrepresent himself twice in order to marry his USC fiancee.

Ergo, yes, it is possible to AOS from a visitor's visa successfully even when you have material misrepresentation involved and yes, many do successfully.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

I take issue but honestly, am big and bad enough to move on from, being accused of 'spewing information on a public board' when my only inaccuracy was stating the onus of proof is on the petitioning couple. Is there really any need to be so patronising?

I'm curious where you see two instances of misrepresentation in the OP's post. I suppose you can argue that there is one, and that is debatable.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

If it was fraud, then it could potetially result in a AOS denial. It cannot. Furthermore, this is not a MENA issue. Once you are in the U.S. and have filed for AOS, you no longer have to deal with the U.S. embassy abroad. If you are talking about the simple act of filing for the tourist visa in the OP's home country, then you are not addressing my original comments at all.

[TayRivers 4]

OK, I've read the thread you pointed us to.

I realise that I was wrong in thinking that the AOS petitioner/beneficiary have the onus to prove that there was no intent.

To be honest, however, we seem to be arguing at cross purposes on the rest of it because the fact is that the OP stated this friend of hers intends to materially misrepresent himself twice in order to marry his USC fiancee.

Ergo, yes, it is possible to AOS from a visitor's visa successfully even when you have material misrepresentation involved and yes, many do successfully.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

I take issue but honestly, am big and bad enough to move on from, being accused of 'spewing information on a public board' when my only inaccuracy was stating the onus of proof is on the petitioning couple. Is there really any need to be so patronising?

You need stop and think about your reply you gave in response to my last post. You Highlighted the Immidiate Relative in red and said that he is not the immidiate relative so that does not apply... He may not be a immidiate relative when he gets his tourist visa or when he arrives at POE but he will be 100% immidiate relative after they marry and apply for AOS/I-130. And as an immidiate relitive he will not be diened because he entered on a tourist visa or VWP.

It is also up to USCIS to prove that there was intent not the applicant.

Should the OP's friend plan to enter on a tourist visa and then get married and remain? I would say no it would be better for him to apply for a K1 visa given all the dificulties that are involved with a MENA Consulate. That does not change the fact that a person can adjust their status legally from a tourist visa or VWP.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Advice from people about people who are not dealing with a MENA consulate is not the best advice for people who are dealig with a MENA consulate. RSN and others, while you may mean well, those of us who are very familar with MENA situations are better equiped to offer advice to women who are intent on marrying MENA men. This is why there is a MENA board; the circumstances facing us and the application of the US law is often not simiar to those coming from Canada or Asia. Please keep this in mind before insisting that your advice is applicable here as it may be elsewhere, for it is easy to mislead someone even as you intend to help them.

Great. Comments from yet another person who has not even taken the time to read the thread. I really wish more people would take the time to understand what they are commenting on instead of blindly injecting their opinion. My comments (and a few others) have nothing at all to do this any particular consulate. I offered no input regarding the particulars of obtaining a visa in Morocco. My comments (and others) relate to immigration procedure w/in the U.S..

I did read the thread you cited. I responded as I did because it's clear that your advice is not specific to Morocco, whereas people, like myself and others on the MENA board, can offer advice specific to the US consulate in Morocco based on the history we know from what has gone before. Giving general advice is not helpful to this particular discussion, and thats what I was saying to you.

It would be best to start a new thread for your general, non-MENA deduced advice since it isn't good advice to give a woman who wants to commit fraud with a MENA man.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Sofiyya

[momof1 205]

Let's just say that the Embassy in Morocco issues a tourist visa even knowing that the person intends to marry while there. A bigger issue can occur at the POE when they can be denied entry for "improper documents." They can possibly withdraw the petition or be given an expedited removal back to Morocco. This improper document charge can then turn into misrep at the consulate. If they get into the US, it should(note I said should) be relatively easy to adjust. I could only see this being an issue if they enter with the tourist visa and marry right away.

Speaking from personal experience, the OP's friend does not want to risk it at all. My spouse just overcame a lifetime bar for misrep and it was not easy. Waivers of inadmissibility are not guaranteed and Morocco waivers in Rome seem to be a crapshoot. It can go either way. For us, terrorism in Algeria and my son's very serious heart condition are what got my husband home after 27 months. Please let this person know that it can go either way. They can wait a few more months and do things the right way or risk it taking much longer to get home...if ever.

[SunDrop 59]

OK, I've read the thread you pointed us to.

I realise that I was wrong in thinking that the AOS petitioner/beneficiary have the onus to prove that there was no intent.

To be honest, however, we seem to be arguing at cross purposes on the rest of it because the fact is that the OP stated this friend of hers intends to materially misrepresent himself twice in order to marry his USC fiancee.

Ergo, yes, it is possible to AOS from a visitor's visa successfully even when you have material misrepresentation involved and yes, many do successfully.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

I take issue but honestly, am big and bad enough to move on from, being accused of 'spewing information on a public board' when my only inaccuracy was stating the onus of proof is on the petitioning couple. Is there really any need to be so patronising?

I'm curious where you see two instances of misrepresentation in the OP's post. I suppose you can argue that there is one, and that is debatable.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

If it was fraud, then it could potetially result in a AOS denial. It cannot. Furthermore, this is not a MENA issue. Once you are in the U.S. and have filed for AOS, you no longer have to deal with the U.S. embassy abroad. If you are talking about the simple act of filing for the tourist visa in the OP's home country, then you are not addressing my original comments at all.

Where's the head-spin emoticon! lol...

I'm thinking the 2 instances of misrepresentation would be applying for a visitor's visa, where you effectively agreeing to return after a set time period and then again at the POE. Therefore obtaining both the visa and entrance.

It's a MENA issue in so far that part of this process involves applying for the initial visitor's visa is happening in Morocco.

I'm therefore addressing your original comments in that there are 2 stages to the OP's case scenario - obtaining a visitor's visa and entering with the intent of marrying and going through AOS.

[SunDrop 59]

OK, I've read the thread you pointed us to.

I realise that I was wrong in thinking that the AOS petitioner/beneficiary have the onus to prove that there was no intent.

To be honest, however, we seem to be arguing at cross purposes on the rest of it because the fact is that the OP stated this friend of hers intends to materially misrepresent himself twice in order to marry his USC fiancee.

Ergo, yes, it is possible to AOS from a visitor's visa successfully even when you have material misrepresentation involved and yes, many do successfully.

However, it is fraud and there is always a risk, especially when dealing with a MENA beneficiary.

I take issue but honestly, am big and bad enough to move on from, being accused of 'spewing information on a public board' when my only inaccuracy was stating the onus of proof is on the petitioning couple. Is there really any need to be so patronising?

You need stop and think about your reply you gave in response to my last post. You Highlighted the Immidiate Relative in red and said that he is not the immidiate relative so that does not apply... He may not be a immidiate relative when he gets his tourist visa or when he arrives at POE but he will be 100% immidiate relative after they marry and apply for AOS/I-130. And as an immidiate relitive he will not be diened because he entered on a tourist visa or VWP.

It is also up to USCIS to prove that there was intent not the applicant.

Should the OP's friend plan to enter on a tourist visa and then get married and remain? I would say no it would be better for him to apply for a K1 visa given all the dificulties that are involved with a MENA Consulate. That does not change the fact that a person can adjust their status legally from a tourist visa or VWP.

I think I've addressed the semantics of my various posts several times now. What we are debating are different issues. You stated that as an IR he could xyz, and I was merely pointing out that until they marry, he is not an IR.

To draw this all to a close, I sincerely hope he gets asked when applying for his tourist visa whether he intends to marry his fiancee, because his reply - if denying he intends to marry her - would make his material misrepresentation concrete. I am NOT saying he cannot adjust nor am I saying he WILL 100% receive a lifetime ban. Rather, I am saying that if AOS is successful (and it's likely to be) he would have obtained his LPR status, as an IR, fraudulently.

I haven't ever said that it's impossible to adjust status legally, please do check back my posts if you are so inclined!

[rebeccajo 14]

If this couple has never met.......

I don't see how there could possibly any misrepresentation involved - Morocco, Paris, Guatemala - wherever. Not at the consulate and not at adjustment of status.

Unless the traveler is already dead-set on marrying this woman he has never met before.

[SunDrop 59]

If this couple has never met.......

I don't see how there could possibly any misrepresentation involved - Morocco, Paris, Guatemala - wherever. Not at the consulate and not at adjustment of status.

Unless the traveler is already dead-set on marrying this woman he has never met before.

Did I miss where the OP said they'd never met? quite possible, there's several discussions taking place within the thread! lol..

The fact that the OP describes this guy's USC as his fiancee indicates there is a pre-existing intention to get married. The misrepresentation is when he applies for a visitor's visa to gain entry to the US for the express purpose of getting married and remaining (this is what the K1 is for, after all) and then potentially at the POE but only if they specifically ask him if he plans to marry his fiancee and he replies that he does not. And you don't have to be from a high risk country to be asked this!