(Illegal) Immigration may threaten health vote

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It doesn't matter who pays for it or how much is paid, especially since they plan to punish those who refuse to enroll after the option to have private health insurance is legislated out of existance.

Which health care measure currently under consideration seeks to eliminate private health insurance coverage? You must have missed that the single payer won't even get a vote in the House as it originally was supposed to. Not that it would have had a chance of making it anyway but now it isn't even considered anymore. Single payer would be the only proposal that would essentially eliminate private health insurance for basic health care. But if it ever has been on the table - which it really hasn't - it's most certainly gone by now. Unfortunately, I might add.

[DEDixon 39]

i'm betting the gov't will have less auditors than private insurance companies. i'm thinking i should open a medical supply store.... eventually there will be a huge opportunity to commit fraud and get away with it (as long as one doesn't get greedy).

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The issue of illegals being included in the plan is a distraction. Is it so hard to see that the government's health plan is not about health, but about more control and power over our lives for the government? It doesn't matter who pays for it or how much is paid, especially since they plan to punish those who refuse to enroll after the option to have private health insurance is legislated out of existance.

True. It is more of a political and ideological statement from the usual suspects. Fiscally it doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but that is no reason to ignore these lame attempts to legitimize the illegitimate.

Allowance in the bill for illegals to participate in universal health care is a red herring, and legislators know it. The courts have repeatedly given rights to illegals to participate in taxpayer funded programs under the equal protection clause of the US Constitution. That how they can go to our schools unfettered. That's how anchor babies came to be. The fix is already in for health care for illegals. Joe Wilson knew that when he called Barry a liar, and Barry knew it, too. The slippery slope toward amnesty and one-world government is well-formed. The only thing that will stop this part is not to have universal health care at all, not who should be included in it.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Sofiyya

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The issue of illegals being included in the plan is a distraction. Is it so hard to see that the government's health plan is not about health, but about more control and power over our lives for the government? It doesn't matter who pays for it or how much is paid, especially since they plan to punish those who refuse to enroll after the option to have private health insurance is legislated out of existance.

True. It is more of a political and ideological statement from the usual suspects. Fiscally it doesn't amount to a hill of beans, but that is no reason to ignore these lame attempts to legitimize the illegitimate.

Allowance in the bill for illegals to participate in universal health care is a red herring, and legislators know it. The courts have repeatedly given rights to illegals to participate in taxpayer funded programs under the equal protection clause of the US Constitution. That how they can go to our schools unfettered. That's how anchor babies came to be. The fix is already in for health care for illegals. Joe Wilson knew that when he called Barry a liar, and Barry knew it, too. The slippery slope toward amnesty and one-world government is well-formed. The only thing that will stop this part is not to have universal health care at all, not who should be included in it.

[Ban Hammer 13,403]

I have mixed feelings. Anybody that wants to should be able to buy insurance. I would rather unlawful permanent reseidents have insurance, rather than show up at the ER to take care of their healthcare needs.

That's a good point. If you let them buy insurance on their own, then we all will be less likely to get stuck with the ER bills they leave behind today.

yet the burning question is - why would they? after all, they can go to the er for free and skip out on the bill, why on earth would they want to spend money when they still can get treated for free?

to show how ludicrious your statement is - illegals drive cars and are supposed to buy insurance for those vehicles. yet, how many times have we heard about someone's car, personal property, and/or themselves being injured by an illegal without vehicle insurance?

[Darnell 8,478]

I'd be interested to know which part of the illegal-alien constituency of the CHC actually voted for them.

Hmmmmmmm, pardon? what you say?

None? Why is that?

Oh, right - cause they ain't allowed to vote.

IMO, CHC is beating a dead horse - let the bill-makers rip out any support for health care for illegal aliens, and to h3ll with the consequences.

Illegal Alien? Pardon, you need to be elsewhere, 'cross the border.

[SuperDuper! 230]

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I have mixed feelings. Anybody that wants to should be able to buy insurance. I would rather unlawful permanent reseidents have insurance, rather than show up at the ER to take care of their healthcare needs.

That's a good point. If you let them buy insurance on their own, then we all will be less likely to get stuck with the ER bills they leave behind today.

yet the burning question is - why would they? after all, they can go to the er for free and skip out on the bill, why on earth would they want to spend money when they still can get treated for free?

So, if they're not going to buy it anyway, then why block them from doing so?

ETA: This little maneuver didn't delay passage. The bill passed tonight.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog

[Ban Hammer 13,403]

I have mixed feelings. Anybody that wants to should be able to buy insurance. I would rather unlawful permanent reseidents have insurance, rather than show up at the ER to take care of their healthcare needs.

That's a good point. If you let them buy insurance on their own, then we all will be less likely to get stuck with the ER bills they leave behind today.

yet the burning question is - why would they? after all, they can go to the er for free and skip out on the bill, why on earth would they want to spend money when they still can get treated for free?

So, if they're not going to buy it anyway, then why block them from doing so?

ETA: This little maneuver didn't delay passage. The bill passed tonight.

just another sign of the impending apocalypse

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Congress is still self-exempted from what they think is good enough for you. That says it all.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Congress is still self-exempted from what they think is good enough for you. That says it all.

Congress is no more exempted from the public option than every American that has health insurance coverage through their employer. The CBO has estimated that employer coverage will expand under the measure. Hence, the bill exempts a growing number of Americans from the public option. It's really not much of a public option at all since the pubic at large won't have access to it.

But then, you are a good follower.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Congress is still self-exempted from what they think is good enough for you. That says it all.

Congress is no more exempted from the public option than every American that has health insurance coverage through their employer. The CBO has estimated that employer coverage will expand under the measure. Hence, the bill exempts a growing number of Americans from the public option. It's really not much of a public option at all since the pubic at large won't have access to it.

But then, you are a good follower.

I'm a good follower of logic; something you don't have any familiarity with. It's clear that you are for this bill without knowing much about it, but not knowing much is what you do best.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Congress is still self-exempted from what they think is good enough for you. That says it all.

Congress is no more exempted from the public option than every American that has health insurance coverage through their employer. The CBO has estimated that employer coverage will expand under the measure. Hence, the bill exempts a growing number of Americans from the public option. It's really not much of a public option at all since the pubic at large won't have access to it.

But then, you are a good follower.

I'm a good follower of logic; something you don't have any familiarity with. It's clear that you are for this bill without knowing much about it, but not knowing much is what you do best.

No, you're a good follower of Glenn Beck's lunacy. Employer sponsored coverage will expand under the measure not be reduced. That's what the CBO has estimated anyway. And I tend to take the CBO analysis a bit more seriously than nutty right wing lunacy.

On net, therefore, about 3 million more people would have their primary coverage through an employer under the proposal than under current law

[Sofiyya 1,687]

No, you're a good follower of Glenn Beck's lunacy. Employer sponsored coverage will expand under the measure not be reduced. That's what the CBO has estimated anyway. And I tend to take the CBO analysis a bit more seriously than nutty right wing lunacy.

I find it hard to be a follower of Beck's "lunacy" since I rarely watch his show. As far as what employers will do, you are merely speculating based on what you know about business models, which is nothing, nada zilch. You are such a tool of the Dimocrats that you're not even housebroken yet, puppy. The way you belch out unreflective parroting of whatever they tell you to believe is sad and pathetic. The only reason why I exchange posts with you at all is because there may be someone with half a brain reading us who can see how willfully blind you are.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No, you're a good follower of Glenn Beck's lunacy. Employer sponsored coverage will expand under the measure not be reduced. That's what the CBO has estimated anyway. And I tend to take the CBO analysis a bit more seriously than nutty right wing lunacy.

I find it hard to be a follower of Beck's "lunacy" since I rarely watch his show. As far as what employers will do, you are merely speculating based on what you know about business models, which is nothing, nada zilch. You are such a tool of the Dimocrats that you're not even housebroken yet, puppy. The way you belch out unreflective parroting of whatever they tell you to believe is sad and pathetic. The only reason why I exchange posts with you at all is because there may be someone with half a brain reading us who can see how willfully blind you are.

Actually, the "speculation" is that of the CBO which happens to be the very speculation that legislators tend to depend on.

Seeing that you don't have a first clue on what I do for a living, your statement that I know nothing about business models is presumptuous at best but really it's just ignorant and silly. The fact of the matter is that businesses will continue to utilize health care benefits as a competitive measure in attracting and retaining talent. Those that won't do so, will find themselves at a disadvantage in the pursuit of the very talent that will help them grow and succeed. If large businesses are allowed to participate in the exchanges and are allowed to offer a public option plan to their employees, it will almost certainly be just that - an option that the employees can choose from. What's wrong with additional choices in this day and age?

When I started working for my current employer a few years back - very few years back- , there were more than a half dozen health insurance choices available. Now, we're down to essentially three - two of them being high deductible plans with an employer contribution for an HSA. For traditional health insurance plans, we have one plan option with two providers to choose from. That's all that is left. So, if there's another option down the road, I say bring it.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Mr. Big Dog