Unconfirmed Source

[chri'stina 190]

Ok, back to all your Clinton, Vietnam, Kennedy, Bosnia rants...

Seems that some folks get mightily worked up when one pokes fun at or dares to criticize the Prophet and Vice Prophet of the United States of America.

The same way people get so mightily worked up, and insult people who don't agree with their views about hating Bush? It goes both ways! I've seen the most preaching on VJ, not about any religion, but from far left wing ppl trying to make everyone believe the same as them, in a very unappealing way too.

Because criticism of Bush can only come from 'far left wing' people? Last I looked there were plenty of people on both sides of the fence who thought he was doing a piss-poor job. Don't make the mistake of polarising this - a lot of criticism of Bush comes from the middle ground. Unfortunately, there does seem to be a tendency to attack the critic rather than deal with the actuality of the criticisms - that's what I have the most problem with. can't criticise Bush because someone will bring up 'sour grapes' from the 2000 election. The fact that Gore and Kerry lost is neither her nor there to me. I don't necessarily think they would have been any 'better' than Bush, yet at this precise moment in time, I honestly feel that a crippled mountain goat would be a better leader than this president.

I nowhere said that only far left ppl criticize Bush, what I said was I'm tired of the "preaching" from far left ppl who don't just criticize, but love tearing apart the administration any chance they get, and whoever else doesn't actually hate Bush. I don't like everything Bush does, and would feel free to criticize choices he makes. But that is a lot different than acting like he is an evil nazi type of person, and joining into rhetoric that's so over played. If you read what I said, it specifically talks about the preaching from far left ppl who try to push their political views down ppl's throats...like "I hate Bush, he's EVIL, and YOU BETTER think so too or you are stupid..." type of mentality. *rolls eyes* Now while ppl may guess my political views, I don't really care if people disagree with me...it's their choice and their right and I'm not going to call them stupid for not believing everything I do. I'll debate my side if I want to, but I won't try to make you feel like you're stupid if you don't agree with me. I have been made out to be "stupid" several times on VJ, with ppl pushing their political ideology down my throat and acting shocked if I don't agree with them. It gets very old. If no one at all thinks they have done this, that's kind of funny. That's really all I have to say about that. I'm sure someone will think of something good to say back to this! But I've said what I wanted to say and am leaving it that way. I've learned slowly to try to stay out of political discussions on VJ as much as possible now, because it always turns into the same thing. But here I went again, getting involved.

Edited February 16, 2006 by stina&suj

[Satisfaction 1]

Or how about these kind of gems

“If we are going to start rewarding no skills and stupid people - I'm serious, let the unskilled jobs, let the kinds of jobs that take absolutely no knowledge whatsoever to do - let stupid and unskilled Mexicans do that work”

Or how he once told a black person calling in to "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."

Or his hypocrisy on drugs

* Too many whites are getting away with drug use...Too many whites are getting away with drug sales...The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too.[2] 1995 Oct 5[3]

* Just another dead doper. And a dirt bag. -- On the occasion of Grateful Dead guitarist Jerry Garcia's death.

* I am addicted to prescription pain medication. [10/10/03]

Wooo that is somebody I TOTALLY want to worship

Thanks Chicky! "Prescription pain medication"? I feel sorry for the guy. Did he get a brain transplant yet? Perhaps by withholding funds from Hamas, extra funds will be available to provide standard of care treatment for his addiction and dementia...

Take a deep breath stina&suj: this only an open discussion, nothing else. Please don't be offended or paranoid

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Neither Japan nor Australia are in South East Asia, making your definition of success obsolete. The domino theory was an ideological framework that resulted from fear rather than reality; the idea was that communist countries would be under Soviet domination which was not true for Vietnam at all. For more info on this and the war, I recommend watching "The Fog of War," an excellent documentary featuring McNamara himself...

The theory was that it could spread from SouthEast Asia through other parts of Asia and eventually south to Austrailia. They are all generally close geographically- in fact here on Visa Journey Japan and Austrailia are grouped with Vietnam regionally, so I don't understand how this makes the definition "obsolete".

Whether the domino theory was based on fear or reality is something we will never know because it didn't happen. Had the US not gotten involved in Vietnam the country definitely would have fallen to communism much earlier, maybe as early as the 50s. If Russia would have thought spreading communism would be that easy who knows whether or not they would have assisted other attempts throughout the region.

Just because there is a theoretical chance that communism would have spread through South East Asia had the Americans not intervened does not justify the war. It threw back Vietnam by decades and even today Vietnamese people suffer from the chemicals that were dumped from American planes to defoliate the trees, the landmines, etc. The human cost on the Vietnamese side alone does not justify the war. However, the communist government has managed to rebuild the country and to successfully incorporate Vietnam into the world market; the average standard of living is higher than in similar so-called democratic countries (and I am aware of human rights abuses but they also exist in those third-world countries that were part of the Western bloc).

What the US (and most of the Western World) did not see was that the influence of the Soviet Union (SU) on communist regimes was not as big as thought. Sure, there was the Eastern bloc, but that was in Europe. Around the world, communist countries relied on Soviet development aid in the same way that so-called "democratic" countries relied on Western aid. It is actually possible to argue that rather than weaken the hold of communism in Vietnam the US-intervention strengthened it because it led to closer ties of the communist north with the SU and with China. The fact that the US supported a South Vietnamese puppet government that emulated the colonial hierarchies and had not interest in changing the status quo did not help either.

Communism would not have won in the Vietnam of the 1950s because at that point the Vietnamese were trying to oust the French colonial regime. In the ensuing Civil War, which was in part due to the strengthening of certain pro-US but not necessarily pro-democracy folks, the communists played a central role, but it was only through US engagement that the SU started to care about this Asian country at all, just like the US didn't give a damn about Afghanistan before the Soviet invasion.

What you're trying to do is to posthumously justify a war. It's like saying that the invasion of Iraq stopped the spread of Islamic fundamentalism which disregards the fact that a) the Iraq was a secular country under Hussein and B) that any Islamic opposition trying to change the secular orientation of the country was oppressed and exiled if they were lucky. Getting involved in Vietnam was a bad idea and didn't help anyone.

[Sister Fracas 5]

Thank you Frances. If we wanted to get our daily dose of El Rushbo quotes, we would have visited his website. He doesn't need you to disseminate his commentary.

The more I've listened to folks on this and other postings, the more I suspect the theory that the lag time and stall was intended to give the Vice President time to sober up after his beer lunch.

What the hell are you on about? Where did I quote El Rushbo??? I think you have me confused somewhere

Edited February 16, 2006 by Frances

[almaty 19]

Thank you Frances. If we wanted to get our daily dose of El Rushbo quotes, we would have visited his website. He doesn't need you to disseminate his commentary.

The more I've listened to folks on this and other postings, the more I suspect the theory that the lag time and stall was intended to give the Vice President time to sober up after his beer lunch.

What the hell are you on about? Where did I quote El Rushbo??? I think you have me confused somewhere

#######????????????? sister fraces a dittohead!!!!!!! say it ain't so sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I nowhere said that only far left ppl criticize Bush, what I said was I'm tired of the "preaching" from far left ppl who don't just criticize, but love tearing apart the administration any chance they get, and whoever else doesn't actually hate Bush.

But what actually makes you think they are 'far left', aside from the fact that they don't like Bush...?

[Satisfaction 1]

I nowhere said that only far left ppl criticize Bush, what I said was I'm tired of the "preaching" from far left ppl who don't just criticize, but love tearing apart the administration any chance they get, and whoever else doesn't actually hate Bush.

But what actually makes you think they are 'far left', aside from the fact that they don't like Bush...?

I agree with FushDude. And yes, there has to be a left-wing bias in the media. Especially those goddam commies at Fox. Luckily the pentagon is spending millions on circulating false news stories, to 'redress the balance'. (anyone remember Dicky's whereabouts on that fateful November day in Dallas yet?)

Frances,

I was only mentioning El Rushbo as a joke. Don't get offended. B)

[Sister Fracas 5]

#######????????????? sister fraces a dittohead!!!!!!! say it ain't so sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whass a dittohead? LOLOL

Frances,

I was only mentioning El Rushbo as a joke. Don't get offended.

Being remotely associated with Rushf#ck is highly offensive...

*Edited to add the following....don't like this add to a previous post thing....

bwahahahahaaa

Dittohead...A dittohead is a fan of The Rush Limbaugh Show.

Saying "dittos" (or even "mega-dittos") was started by a Rush Limbaugh caller in 1988 as a shorthand way for callers to say they love the program and for Rush to never quit doing the radio show.

The term has been used as a snipe by people who see it as an example of groupthink allegedly encouraged by Limbaugh.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dittohead"

Edited February 16, 2006 by Frances

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Frances,

I was only mentioning El Rushbo as a joke. Don't get offended.

Being remotely associated with Rushf#ck is highly offensive...

"Dittohead...A dittohead is a fan of The Rush Limbaugh Show. ..."

I'd agree, Frances. Being called a dittohead is highly offensive and not at all funny.