Unconfirmed Source

[Chicky 0]

That's because your RIGHT leg just doesn't work right Frances

[rebeccajo 14]

*trips over Rebecca's left tail-light*

*backs up and accidentally runs over Frances*

Dam. Now I suppose they will want to see my certificate from the Ted Kennedy School of Driving.....

*rummages in glovebox*

[Sister Fracas 5]

That's because your RIGHT leg just doesn't work right Frances

I injured it in a fringe demonstration...

*trips over Rebecca's left tail-light*

*backs up and accidentally runs over Frances*

Dam. Now I suppose they will want to see my certificate from the Ted Kennedy School of Driving.....

*rummages in glovebox*

It will be right next to the bottle of vodka...

[Jasman0717 9]

Wow, for an Onion immitation news report this post has been taking a bit too seriously! Next time the fingers will not do the walking!

[Sister Fracas 5]

Wow, for an Onion immitation news report this post has been taking a bit too seriously! Next time the fingers will not do the walking!

see what trouble you started Jim! LOL shame on you!

[almaty 19]

*trips over Rebecca's left tail-light*

*backs up and accidentally runs over Frances*

Dam. Now I suppose they will want to see my certificate from the Ted Kennedy School of Driving.....

*rummages in glovebox*

[Jasman0717 9]

Wow, for an Onion immitation news report this post has been taking a bit too seriously! Next time the fingers will not do the walking!

see what trouble you started Jim! LOL shame on you!

I know, I do feel badly! But it sure stirred up a commotion

[dalegg 143]

Hey, not so fast. I didn't say Vietnam was a "Victory". I said it was ultimately successful. The reason we went to war in Vietnam was the Domino Theory. In case you aren't familiar with that, it's the theory that if communism could spread throughout SouthEast Asia it would give the communists a strong foothold that would eventually allow them to control all of Asia, including Japan and eventually Austrailia, thus weekening the US global position.

Well, after decades of prolonged war, the only "Dominos" that fell were South Vietnam and Cambodia. Could it be that Russia didn't want to fund another 3 decade civil war either? If you could have told Eisenhower and Kennedy that sacrificing South Vietnam and Cambodia would mean the end of the Spread of Communism thoughout Asia, I think they would have gladly taken that.

Neither Japan nor Australia are in South East Asia, making your definition of success obsolete. The domino theory was an ideological framework that resulted from fear rather than reality; the idea was that communist countries would be under Soviet domination which was not true for Vietnam at all. For more info on this and the war, I recommend watching "The Fog of War," an excellent documentary featuring McNamara himself...

The theory was that it could spread from SouthEast Asia through other parts of Asia and eventually south to Austrailia. They are all generally close geographically- in fact here on Visa Journey Japan and Austrailia are grouped with Vietnam regionally, so I don't understand how this makes the definition "obsolete".

Whether the domino theory was based on fear or reality is something we will never know because it didn't happen. Had the US not gotten involved in Vietnam the country definitely would have fallen to communism much earlier, maybe as early as the 50s. If Russia would have thought spreading communism would be that easy who knows whether or not they would have assisted other attempts throughout the region.

[Sister Fracas 5]

Wow, for an Onion immitation news report this post has been taking a bit too seriously! Next time the fingers will not do the walking!

see what trouble you started Jim! LOL shame on you!

I know, I do feel badly! But it sure stirred up a commotion

Are you kidding...this crowd loves a commotion....you just provided a home for it temporarily...

[ceriserose 1]

Not mine! I'm a Leo, with all the good and bad that en-tails. (Get it, lion + tail).

I'm going seriously loopy with resumes and job apps.

Anywho...back to topic.

yer still using that resume/job app thingie to explain loopiness, eh? *runs*

*trips over Rebecca's left tail-light*

HEY! Be nice. I'm still ticked that you haven't sent me cheese curds.

Lions do roar you know. (But not till night after we've spent the day lazing in the sun.)

Wow, for an Onion immitation news report this post has been taking a bit too seriously! Next time the fingers will not do the walking!

see what trouble you started Jim! LOL shame on you!

I know, I do feel badly! But it sure stirred up a commotion

Bad Jim, bad. You are hereby sent to the corner. With Claudeth.

[Sister Fracas 5]

HEY! Be nice. I'm still ticked that you haven't sent me cheese curds.

I made poutine with them....all gone....

I swear the next time I go up to Wisconsin I'm buying some and sending them to you...LOL

[Fandango 1,440]

Ya know, I really gotta say....it irritates me to no end when all the blame for this war is laid at Bush's feet. Anyone can do a little back research & see how most politicians & world leaders felt about Iraq/Wmd.

Yes, and, more importantly, anyone can easily find out how the world felt about invading the place. Bush decided to go in despite the collective opposition of the vast majority of nations and despite there being no legal basis for such a move. It's HIS war. Any way you look at it. Nobody else made that decision.

Congress? Yes, Congress authorized the use of force as a last resort. Go back and read statements made during the debate - nobody wanted to willy-nilly invade Iraq without proper authority and without proper support. This resolution was mainly supported to force Saddam into admitting the UN inspectors back into Iraq for unfettered inspections. And it worked. The inspectors were working there quite well - anyone can read up on that, too. They worked well up until Bush called the UN telling them to pull the inspectors out 'cause we were coming in. In 2003, it was not Saddam that hindered the UN inspections. It was one George W Bush dead set on waging an illegal war of aggression. There's no blame to be spread.

Ok, back to all your Clinton, Vietnam, Kennedy, Bosnia rants...

Seems that some folks get mightily worked up when one pokes fun at or dares to criticize the Prophet and Vice Prophet of the United States of America.

The same way people get so mightily worked up, and insult people who don't agree with their views about hating Bush? It goes both ways! I've seen the most preaching on VJ, not about any religion, but from far left wing ppl trying to make everyone believe the same as them, in a very unappealing way too.

I agree stina&suj, Its kind of funny, if your opinion is different than some here. The sarcasm and hatred really shows and is really quite telling!

Just don't pull Clinton out everytime someone criticizes the current administration. Argue your case based on this administration's merit. That never happens and that's quite telling, too...

Firstly, I brought up Clinton...don't think I was the first...but I addressed Clinton just to address this 'when Clinton lied, no one died' bollox. Bush is no better or no worse based on that situation, but since it was mentioned, I wanted to add my .02.

As for the rest of your post, I couldn't disagree with you more. You want to stick your head in the sand & say it was all Bush's fault? Go ahead. But I on the other hand, took note when Kerry wrote to Clinton saying 'we must invade Iraq...our national safety depends on it' I took note when practically every prominant Dem & world leader came forth on the 'Iraq=wmd' bandwagon. You can shine it any way you want, but I'm not buyin. I just don't get how politicians expect to be able to say one thing, then completely contradict themselves later on, and sell it to a public who will accept it without looking at WHAT REALLY HAPPENED vs. Monday morning quarterbacking. Hindsight is a great thing, but it shouldn't be used to rewrite history. Do I wish things had gone differently in Iraq? Of course. But that doesn't mean certain ppl can excuse themselves of all liability.

As for 'nobody wanted to willy-nilly blahblahblah'....firstly, how do YOU know? Do you have any Congressman on speed dial? Are you cleared for security purposes? I'm guessin no. So if that's the case, you can't say with any certainty what ANYONE wanted...and all you have to go on is action. That's all any of us have to go on.

Take John Kerry for a second. Did you know he voted AGAINST Bush sr to have the authority to go to war in the 90s? He did so because he said there were other avenues to explore and he didn't feel we were ready. Well guess what he did this time? Yup, he voted for the war. So you need to ask yourself...why no to one and yes to the other, if he truly felt the same about each? And I'm not talking about Kerry in particular for any reason other than to illustrate a Congressman who obviously felt we were ready.

I don't like to read into things...I don't like to secondguess someone's actions. If Congress felt we werent' ready, 77% of them wouldn't have given authority. I'll even go one further by saying they had a duty to us as a people to prevent it from happening, if that's how they felt. They are there for a very important reason, you know. You don't give one permission to do something you don't agree with in the first place, then bash the person for doing it & say 'hey it was his fault' No sir, you could not be more wrong.

And the way our gov't works prevents things like 'his war, his choice'.....we have checks and balances for this very reason. There's no dictatorship in America, you know.

Furthermore, I'd say you should look many things, but have a looksie into the commendation that many Congressman signed giving Bush accolades for how the war was going. And I'm not talking only Repubs here. Now...how do you suppose that these politicians can insult the public's intelligence by doing all these things, and when things aren't working out like they had planned...they change course & expect ppl to forget history, forget their actions, their statements, their speeches, etc, and lay it soley at one man's feet...or one administration rather....when the tide of opinion was clear long before that man took office.

Here's a good place to start!

Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth. I never thought that was true until lately.

It all boils down to this stupid partisan ####### & it's tearing the nation apart. Each side exploits every misfortune in a 'hey this is great for the blame game' type of thing. It's disgusting really.

But you have a right to feel whatever you do...and if I were in your shoes...I'd wonder to myself what these very vocal politicians were doing when they acted/voted/spoke about the war before and during (hell, even before Bush came into office so you can't say it was him!)...and why that differed to what they did after. A change of mind is poss, a change of history shouldn't be...

Things that make you go hrmmm.

[rebeccajo 14]

I don't know if they lied or not. Whoever 'they' are.

The fact is there has been an admission of 'faulty intelligence'. Whatever that spin means.

So.......whatever happened to saying 'uh, we messed up'.

And bring our men home.

[yogib37 3]

Whats really sad is that there are ppl wishing he would get it for manslaughter, But if it was someone else,these same ppl would be calling the charges bogus,because it was an accident!

Yep. Has little to do with the accident. Rather, it is about the visceral hatred many have for Cheney and Bush. Get over it, people, Gore lost in 2000.

Gore did not lose in 2000, Bush stole it. Seems strange his brother is the governor in the state of which it was a conterverory.

From Santa Ana, I can tell you buy into the lies of the GOP. Bush got rid of one dictator and Bush himself is turning into a Dictator himself. Maybe he was Jealous of Saddam and all the power he had, so he felt left out and wants power. BUSH=21 century Hilter and a dictator..

He think he is above the Law, and is messing up the consitution. He does not care about that why, cause he said " it is just a god damm peice of paper" so it does not meany anything. Even his othe he lied cause he was sworn to protect and defend the consituation. Yeah he protects it, by tearing it into peices and screw our cival rights as americans. So we need to get rid of that DICTATOR.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

but I addressed Clinton just to address this 'when Clinton lied, no one died' bollox.

Bollox? So, tell me: Who died because of Clinton's lie?

You want to stick your head in the sand & say it was all Bush's fault? Go ahead.

Who made the decision to invade Iraq? Kerry? Clinton? I didn't think so. The buck stops in the Oval Office. Well, it used to pre-Bush II...

As for 'nobody wanted to willy-nilly blahblahblah'....firstly, how do YOU know? Do you have any Congressman on speed dial? Are you cleared for security purposes? I'm guessin no. So if that's the case, you can't say with any certainty what ANYONE wanted...and all you have to go on is action.

House and Senate debates are a matter of public record. Read there. (It's much better reading than what you suggest)

Take John Kerry for a second.

No. He's as irrelevant in this discussion as Bill Clinton is. This is about the POTUS that invaded Iraq and that POTUS was neither the former nor the latter but one George W Bush. Nice try at deflection, though...

If Congress felt we werent' ready, 77% of them wouldn't have given authority.

Read the joint resolution and tell me where it says that we need to invade instead of pursuing diplomatic routes. Tell me (quote please) where it says the President is to recall the UN inspectors so the US military can blanket the place with bombs. Congress authorized the use of force as a last resort. We all know that the administration had a pre-set agenda to invade.

And the way our gov't works prevents things like 'his war, his choice'.....we have checks and balances for this very reason.

Really? Not with this White House we don't. Congress is being stonewalled at every turn. And it ain't just the Dems saying so. There is a considerable portion of Republicans that take issue with the administration's interpretation of the division of power in this country. FISA, anyone?

Here's a good place to start!

Rightwing News is a good place to start? I suppose I could get my fair and balanced bit off Faux News or from Rush Limbaugh as well...

Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth. I never thought that was true until lately.

You haven't picked up on the administrations M.O. then. That's what they've been and are continuing to do.

Edited February 15, 2006 by ET-US2004